Week 6 Balt Ravens coaches film analysis thread

Originally posted by Niners816:
We were dusting off the old WCO plays. 1994 again, notice the progression

Absolutely love that you're able to dig this stuff up Niners816. Not because I think that the WCO will restore the Niners to prominence, but because it just goes to show exactly how much of an influence Walsh's offensive ideas have had on the NFL as a whole. You could probably do cut ups of every team and find some bit of Walsh in their playcalling.

Originally posted by JoeBart324:

Absolutely love that you're able to dig this stuff up Niners816. Not because I think that the WCO will restore the Niners to prominence, but because it just goes to show exactly how much of an influence Walsh's offensive ideas have had on the NFL as a whole. You could probably do cut ups of every team and find some bit of Walsh in their playcalling.

All the old school WCO concepts are still alive and well within the NFL in all forms of offense. Personally I think GB has the best WCO in the league. I love what they do with offense. However, I will say I also love what Geep is doing for us. I think he will prove to be a very good OC....it's still early but for the most part I like what I'm seeing.

Originally posted by thl408:
Agree, but he wouldn't have found anything open on the other side either. But yes, he looked to the zone buster. The correct throw, 'on the whiteboard', would be the Corner route, but Celek can't threaten deep. So the question becomes, "why is Celek running the vertical route and VD running the curl?".

defenses would respect VD with his speed more opening up Celek to work under? idk. but VD is just a liability at this point.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by JoeBart324:
Absolutely love that you're able to dig this stuff up Niners816. Not because I think that the WCO will restore the Niners to prominence, but because it just goes to show exactly how much of an influence Walsh's offensive ideas have had on the NFL as a whole. You could probably do cut ups of every team and find some bit of Walsh in their playcalling.

All the old school WCO concepts are still alive and well within the NFL in all forms of offense. Personally I think GB has the best WCO in the league. I love what they do with offense. However, I will say I also love what Geep is doing for us. I think he will prove to be a very good OC....it's still early but for the most part I like what I'm seeing.

I'm with you on the WCO being alive and well. Some teams use it more heavily than others, but the concepts are solid and work against any modern defense, despite the age of the WCO.

Geep's offense seems more streamlined that what we've seen the past few years and I like that. The team may need an adjusting period, but it seems like they're slowly getting more comfortable as the season wears on. Not too mention they're not scrambling to the line trying to get a play off, which is a win in and of itself.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by thl408:

Agree, but he wouldn't have found anything open on the other side either. But yes, he looked to the zone buster. The correct throw, 'on the whiteboard', would be the Corner route, but Celek can't threaten deep. So the question becomes, "why is Celek running the vertical route and VD running the curl?".

defenses would respect VD with his speed more opening up Celek to work under? idk. but VD is just a liability at this point.

To me, everything VD seems to do just seems slow and lazy. Whether it be route running, or run blocking, or blocking downfield for WR's, or RAC. I really don't think his heart is fully in the game anymore, and I think a lot of that has to do with him just not being involved in the passing game the past year and a half. It just doesn't look like he's giving 100% at all.

I'm really hoping something changes this week cus we could really use some of those big plays down the seam against Seattle. Greg Olson had a huge game against them last Sunday, and I'm hoping Celek/VD/McD can do the same on Thursday. Kap has really struggled against their cover 3, I'm praying our TE's can find some soft spots in their zone and that we can hit some shots to Torrey down the sideline. Hopefully Geep lines up Torrey next to Cary Williams and we go after him, it seems he's the weak link in their secondary. Let Boldin occupy Sherman and let's abuse Cary Williams.

Lastly we really need Ellington to be active, his quickness underneath could really help going through those underneath zones because Seattles LB's are so damn fast it's hard to get any YAC. Johnny or THL what would you guys suggest to help beat Seattles cover 3 with the personnel we currently have?

Great breakdowns! Awesome job

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
To me, everything VD seems to do just seems slow and lazy. Whether it be route running, or run blocking, or blocking downfield for WR's, or RAC. I really don't think his heart is fully in the game anymore, and I think a lot of that has to do with him just not being involved in the passing game the past year and a half. It just doesn't look like he's giving 100% at all.

I'm really hoping something changes this week cus we could really use some of those big plays down the seam against Seattle. Greg Olson had a huge game against them last Sunday, and I'm hoping Celek/VD/McD can do the same on Thursday. Kap has really struggled against their cover 3, I'm praying our TE's can find some soft spots in their zone and that we can hit some shots to Torrey down the sideline. Hopefully Geep lines up Torrey next to Cary Williams and we go after him, it seems he's the weak link in their secondary. Let Boldin occupy Sherman and let's abuse Cary Williams.

Lastly we really need Ellington to be active, his quickness underneath could really help going through those underneath zones because Seattles LB's are so damn fast it's hard to get any YAC. Johnny or THL what would you guys suggest to help beat Seattles cover 3 with the personnel we currently have?

I think Celek will, not VD though lol

Originally posted by jonnydel:
well gents and gals, I'll be signing off until either late tonight, or early tomorrow morning. My football players got themselves into the playoffs so I'm off to help get em ready for their game!

thank you and good luck with your team and the playoff

My thoughts on Kap delaying the super fast sprint out routes is because of the 2 pick 6's vs ARI. Since then, he has seemed very cautious on those sprint outs where he MUST trust the play design and throw it blind.

Also, the curl miscommunication to Boldin. It may have been a curl but Kap adjusted to that perfectly. I'm surprised Boldin being a vet that he did not see the huge gap in the middle and didn't keep going. If he runs that through and catch it on stride, it could have gone for a huge play.

I would take Celeck over VD on any deep route that is not over 40 yards simply because I would take Celeck in a jump ball on a DB over any jump ball to Vernon.

I still have an issue with Kap being lazy on turning his head faster on those play action bootlegs.

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
To me, everything VD seems to do just seems slow and lazy. Whether it be route running, or run blocking, or blocking downfield for WR's, or RAC. I really don't think his heart is fully in the game anymore, and I think a lot of that has to do with him just not being involved in the passing game the past year and a half. It just doesn't look like he's giving 100% at all.

I'm really hoping something changes this week cus we could really use some of those big plays down the seam against Seattle. Greg Olson had a huge game against them last Sunday, and I'm hoping Celek/VD/McD can do the same on Thursday. Kap has really struggled against their cover 3, I'm praying our TE's can find some soft spots in their zone and that we can hit some shots to Torrey down the sideline. Hopefully Geep lines up Torrey next to Cary Williams and we go after him, it seems he's the weak link in their secondary. Let Boldin occupy Sherman and let's abuse Cary Williams.

Lastly we really need Ellington to be active, his quickness underneath could really help going through those underneath zones because Seattles LB's are so damn fast it's hard to get any YAC. Johnny or THL what would you guys suggest to help beat Seattles cover 3 with the personnel we currently have?

Not an OC, but I think I have one good suggestion as an arm chair coach. If SEA comes with their cover3, I think it's important to quickly send 5 routes into play, immediately at the snap. This means Kap must make quick decisions, settle for the 4-6 yard passes, and be accurate to give his WR a chance for some RAC. There won't be any additional blockers to help pass pro so that's the reason why decisions must be quick. By sending out 5 routes at the snap, it forces movement from the 4 underneath defenders. They must move in response to the routes immediately releasing. This can open up passing lanes that otherwise wouldn't be there.

This is something HaRo's offense did not do much of when facing SEA. They mostly sent 4 out, then had Gore perform check release duty, then release into his route up the middle. With little time in the pocket, this was essentially 4 routes in play. By forcing Cover3 to account for 5 routes, it is easier to scheme 2v1 situations (2WR vs 1 defender). Quick read, target, take 4 yards while hoping for RAC. Agree with you, Ellington (and Bush) would help a lot here with their agility. They need to heal up and play.

From there, then run the ball, playaction, etc. Torrey will no doubt get attention from CWilliams and ET. Sherman excels at covering Go routes so I would keep Torrey away from him. What I am concerned about is if SEA decides to go cover1 and man up on the WRs. I have not seen Boldin/Patton/VD/Vance be able to create much separation versus man coverage. Couple this with Kap's definition of 'open', and I think SEA may consider going predominantly man coverage, while bracketing Torrey. Force Kap to make contested throws. If this is the case, then Kap must have the green light to scramble and take 5-8 yards whenever he can. SEA has shown discipline in their pass rush lanes in the past so it won't be easy to scramble. All of this, easier said than done.

Originally posted by Niners816:
We were dusting off the old WCO plays. 1994 again, notice the progression....we just run everything out of broken I forms (strong and weak)

There is a play where Kap hits the 3rd read, and for good reason. It resulted in a minimal gain, but since you posted this play art I may as well show it.

Originally posted by Joecool:
My thoughts on Kap delaying the super fast sprint out routes is because of the 2 pick 6's vs ARI. Since then, he has seemed very cautious on those sprint outs where he MUST trust the play design and throw it blind.

Also, the curl miscommunication to Boldin. It may have been a curl but Kap adjusted to that perfectly. I'm surprised Boldin being a vet that he did not see the huge gap in the middle and didn't keep going. If he runs that through and catch it on stride, it could have gone for a huge play.

I would take Celeck over VD on any deep route that is not over 40 yards simply because I would take Celeck in a jump ball on a DB over any jump ball to Vernon.

I still have an issue with Kap being lazy on turning his head faster on those play action bootlegs.

Yep, not sure why Boldin stopped as he had inside positioning on Smith. But I think Boldin conceded it was his mistake there.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Oztroy:
thank you so much for these threads. it helps me understand the intricacies of the game. I don't have much to add so I don't post in here. but I do have loads of questions.

you don't normally analyse sacks but I was interested in understanding a niners 3 and 8 about 2 minutes to go in the second quarter. it appeared 2 ravens got through the OL, and sacked kap. I wanted to know what hayne should have done in this to try and stop the rush.

here's the play you mentioned - I don't put this sack on him, but more on Devey/Boone. Everything I've seen in playbooks, usually, if a RB is going to give inside help on a rush, it's in the "A" gap or "2" hole(between C and RG).


It's 3rd and 8, so we're going to try and go for the sticks here. It's a streak/out concept. We've run this concept a lot over the years. You clear out the outside space and hit an out route to your receiver who has inside leverage.


Vernon has his outside release and jab steps on his out route.



IMO VD wins his battle and is open, but CK can't get him the ball because of the pressure. He also had Patton as an option on the backside.


The Ravens are gonna try and overload the right side of the line. However, we slide the line to the right and should be able to pick this up.


You see the line slide to the right and Hayne moves to fill the "a" gap. As far as I've seen in all my playbooks, this should be where Hayne picks up the rusher. You, generally, either have your RB fill the inside "A" gap or help the tackle with the outside rush. On a line slide, he shouldn't be outside help.


Balt actually runs a stunt off this side. The inside rusher pushes up field on the outside shoulder of Devey and the outside rusher cuts in.


For some reason, Devey slides back in on the inside rushing defender. This is a big mistake, he has both Hayne and Martin helping inside. Boone also gets too tall on his block and is easily shucked.


That's just ugly....3 blockers on 1 guy with 1 defender coming free...


CK then tries to step up and away from the free rusher, but Boone's man is there to get him. I also pointed out how, from this angle, you can see VD won his battle. I believe, if CK has the time, he hits VD on this play.

Thank you so much!!!! That behind angle makes it so clear on what occurs on the line.

Wow.

This thread is amazing. The plays matching what we are doing is cool.

Originally posted by thl408:

Both of Kap's big throws were off rather simple concepts. I am referring to Miller's and Torrey's bomb. Most of the other throws were quick read plays designed to get the ball out fast. Kap was solid with his quick decision making on these 3 step timing throws. A bunch of Slant-Flat concepts called. There were a couple plays where Geep dialed up more complex combinations, but they did not have good results. One was a near INT to Boldin when Boldin stopped and Kap threw it as if he expected Boldin to keep running.

Geep opened the game with a bunch of short throws to the flats. I think that set up Miller's deep route nicely. Likewise, Torrey opened the game running a few deep curls, and that set up the double move nicely on Wright. I'll try to show the set up plays that occurred before the deep throws to Miller/Torrey.

Defensively I finally saw a play that, without a doubt, was pattern matching with Bethea playing Quarters. And to no surprise, Flacco had a bunch of time and found no one open, scrambled, and threw it away. So the question is why is Mangini still mucking around with soft zone? Soft zones that always get exposed when a vet QB has time, and we know how impotent the 4 man pass rush is. Steve Smith deep crosses over the middle found holes again. When Mangini rushes 3 and drops 8 into zone, it is some very funky zones being played, like a 2-4-2 set up. The FGs given up in the first half were thanks to a couple Steve Smith drops in the end zone. The defense in the 2nd half was not good. BAL drives were: driving then Acker INT, long drive TD, long drive FG, long drive TD, driving time runs out. Pretty shaky performance overall imo.

That Flacco INT to Acker was lol bad. Acker was just sitting there covering grass, being harmless, then Flacco chucks it up there with no route in the area. Liked the game from Ward and I think he needs to be on the field whenever possible. Safe to say the experiment with Brock as slot CB is over. Brock as a zone defender is not good. One issue I see is the 49er WRs struggling to get open versus man coverage. Torrey is the only player able to create separation. VD has checked out. When asked to block on WR screens he just dgaf anymore and it's sad. Also can't separate when going versus man coverage.

if VD shows up with dgaf-attitude once more, the niners will have to cut him.