Week 6 Balt Ravens coaches film analysis thread

Originally posted by Oztroy:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Oztroy:

thank you so much for these threads. it helps me understand the intricacies of the game. I don't have much to add so I don't post in here. but I do have loads of questions.

you don't normally analyse sacks but I was interested in understanding a niners 3 and 8 about 2 minutes to go in the second quarter. it appeared 2 ravens got through the OL, and sacked kap. I wanted to know what hayne should have done in this to try and stop the rush.

here's the play you mentioned - I don't put this sack on him, but more on Devey/Boone. Everything I've seen in playbooks, usually, if a RB is going to give inside help on a rush, it's in the "A" gap or "2" hole(between C and RG).


It's 3rd and 8, so we're going to try and go for the sticks here. It's a streak/out concept. We've run this concept a lot over the years. You clear out the outside space and hit an out route to your receiver who has inside leverage.


Vernon has his outside release and jab steps on his out route.



IMO VD wins his battle and is open, but CK can't get him the ball because of the pressure. He also had Patton as an option on the backside.


The Ravens are gonna try and overload the right side of the line. However, we slide the line to the right and should be able to pick this up.


You see the line slide to the right and Hayne moves to fill the "a" gap. As far as I've seen in all my playbooks, this should be where Hayne picks up the rusher. You, generally, either have your RB fill the inside "A" gap or help the tackle with the outside rush. On a line slide, he shouldn't be outside help.


Balt actually runs a stunt off this side. The inside rusher pushes up field on the outside shoulder of Devey and the outside rusher cuts in.


For some reason, Devey slides back in on the inside rushing defender. This is a big mistake, he has both Hayne and Martin helping inside. Boone also gets too tall on his block and is easily shucked.


That's just ugly....3 blockers on 1 guy with 1 defender coming free...


CK then tries to step up and away from the free rusher, but Boone's man is there to get him. I also pointed out how, from this angle, you can see VD won his battle. I believe, if CK has the time, he hits VD on this play.

Thank you so much!!!! That behind angle makes it so clear on what occurs on the line.

One thing that bothers me about this and that is the fact that Kap is not reading the safety at all. Receiver on the right has one on one with literally nobody else around him but his defender. The safety clearly helps over the top to the left. Is it Patton to the right? One would think he would create some separation after his cut more than Vernon would. I think Kap should have made an anticipated throw to the right. He had plenty of time for it and there was so much space to throw on the right that he could have thrown it softer and led Ptton more to the middle or up field to throw away from the DB.

Young would have put a pass on the 45 yard line 5 yards in front of Rice for a td on this type of play. It's what makes HOFs HOFs.

Originally posted by SoCold:

Young would have put a pass on the 45 yard line 5 yards in front of Rice for a td on this type of play. It's what makes HOFs HOFs.

one route a 10 yard out and the other is a 10 yard square in. If he put it on the 45 he's throwing a 10 yard out/in at 15 yards....that's not good.

Steve young was much better than that....he wasn't over throwing 10 yard square ins by 5 yards.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by SoCold:
Young would have put a pass on the 45 yard line 5 yards in front of Rice for a td on this type of play. It's what makes HOFs HOFs.

one route a 10 yard out and the other is a 10 yard square in. If he put it on the 45 he's throwing a 10 yard out/in at 15 yards....that's not good.

Steve young was much better than that....he wasn't over throwing 10 yard square ins by 5 yards.

Was talking about the route at the top of the pic and the Baltimore 45. Where Young and Rice would adjust routes and throws based on defensive's movements turning a in rout into more of a slant. Both players adjusting on the fly to make plays happen. Even if Kap throws the tradition in route and puts the ball at the 49 yard line to lead the receiver by a few yards that's a huge potential play.

Originally posted by SoCold:
Was talking about the route at the top of the pic and the Baltimore 45. Where Young and Rice would adjust routes and throws based on defensive's movements turning a in rout into more of a slant. Both players adjusting on the fly to make plays happen. Even if Kap throws the tradition in route and puts the ball at the 49 yard line to lead the receiver by a few yards that's a huge potential play.

Easy to say looking at the all 22. But Kap had 2 linemen coming at him and one in his face if he stepped up to throw. If you look at it, Vernon and Patton were breaking at the same time so if Kap didn't have time to step up and throw to Vernon, he wouldn't have time for Patton.

But I agree, Patton was the best read since the safety was helping on the concept side. On top of that, who knows if Vernon even tries to catch it. Patton is hungry and looking to prove himself so I'd give him the ball.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Luckycharms:
To me, everything VD seems to do just seems slow and lazy. Whether it be route running, or run blocking, or blocking downfield for WR's, or RAC. I really don't think his heart is fully in the game anymore, and I think a lot of that has to do with him just not being involved in the passing game the past year and a half. It just doesn't look like he's giving 100% at all.

I'm really hoping something changes this week cus we could really use some of those big plays down the seam against Seattle. Greg Olson had a huge game against them last Sunday, and I'm hoping Celek/VD/McD can do the same on Thursday. Kap has really struggled against their cover 3, I'm praying our TE's can find some soft spots in their zone and that we can hit some shots to Torrey down the sideline. Hopefully Geep lines up Torrey next to Cary Williams and we go after him, it seems he's the weak link in their secondary. Let Boldin occupy Sherman and let's abuse Cary Williams.

Lastly we really need Ellington to be active, his quickness underneath could really help going through those underneath zones because Seattles LB's are so damn fast it's hard to get any YAC. Johnny or THL what would you guys suggest to help beat Seattles cover 3 with the personnel we currently have?

Not an OC, but I think I have one good suggestion as an arm chair coach. If SEA comes with their cover3, I think it's important to quickly send 5 routes into play, immediately at the snap. This means Kap must make quick decisions, settle for the 4-6 yard passes, and be accurate to give his WR a chance for some RAC. There won't be any additional blockers to help pass pro so that's the reason why decisions must be quick. By sending out 5 routes at the snap, it forces movement from the 4 underneath defenders. They must move in response to the routes immediately releasing. This can open up passing lanes that otherwise wouldn't be there.

This is something HaRo's offense did not do much of when facing SEA. They mostly sent 4 out, then had Gore perform check release duty, then release into his route up the middle. With little time in the pocket, this was essentially 4 routes in play. By forcing Cover3 to account for 5 routes, it is easier to scheme 2v1 situations (2WR vs 1 defender). Quick read, target, take 4 yards while hoping for RAC. Agree with you, Ellington (and Bush) would help a lot here with their agility. They need to heal up and play.

From there, then run the ball, playaction, etc. Torrey will no doubt get attention from CWilliams and ET. Sherman excels at covering Go routes so I would keep Torrey away from him. What I am concerned about is if SEA decides to go cover1 and man up on the WRs. I have not seen Boldin/Patton/VD/Vance be able to create much separation versus man coverage. Couple this with Kap's definition of 'open', and I think SEA may consider going predominantly man coverage, while bracketing Torrey. Force Kap to make contested throws. If this is the case, then Kap must have the green light to scramble and take 5-8 yards whenever he can. SEA has shown discipline in their pass rush lanes in the past so it won't be easy to scramble. All of this, easier said than done.

Man, this is your 3rd or 4th opinion-suggestion posts in this thread and it's pure gold. I hope fans are reading this!

I know we and others have been talking about the way to beat Seattle going back to when Alex was here.

It's a game of patience and really, WCO...simply take what the defense gives you esp. on 1st downs (take the simple 4-yarders and rely a bit on YAC). If we start getting in 2nd and 3rd and longs, Seattle can just pin their ears back and attack out weaker OL.

Looking at these offensive plays, I see a lot of plays that could give the team good results with better execution. Just little breakdowns here there. We are kinda close to being a good offense. But that's between the 20's, not sure about redzone execution, that needs a lot more work.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Looking at these offensive plays, I see a lot of plays that could give the team good results with better execution. Just little breakdowns here there. We are kinda close to being a good offense. But that's between the 20's, not sure about redzone execution, that needs a lot more work.

Very much agree!

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:

Originally posted by SoCold:
Was talking about the route at the top of the pic and the Baltimore 45. Where Young and Rice would adjust routes and throws based on defensive's movements turning a in rout into more of a slant. Both players adjusting on the fly to make plays happen. Even if Kap throws the tradition in route and puts the ball at the 49 yard line to lead the receiver by a few yards that's a huge potential play.

Easy to say looking at the all 22. But Kap had 2 linemen coming at him and one in his face if he stepped up to throw. If you look at it, Vernon and Patton were breaking at the same time so if Kap didn't have time to step up and throw to Vernon, he wouldn't have time for Patton.

But I agree, Patton was the best read since the safety was helping on the concept side. On top of that, who knows if Vernon even tries to catch it. Patton is hungry and looking to prove himself so I'd give him the ball.

Kap actually had one hitch after he hit the top of his drop. With the room Patton had to work with, Kap could have thrown a softer pass that was more inside and upfield that would have allowed Patton to adjust after turning on his break. These are the throws Rodgers and some of the top QB's in the league make. They force the receiver to adjust to the throw but the placement of the throw favors the receiver and makes it tougher for the DB.

My concern is more that the safety was VERY easy to read here and Kap still looked in the wrong direction. To me, it was a trivial decision to NOT look to the left and throw Patton open to the right. Seeing that safety move that far over, Kap should have adjusted and gotten himself ready quicker to make an anticipated throw to the right and thrown Patton open.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Kap actually had one hitch after he hit the top of his drop. With the room Patton had to work with, Kap could have thrown a softer pass that was more inside and upfield that would have allowed Patton to adjust after turning on his break. These are the throws Rodgers and some of the top QB's in the league make. They force the receiver to adjust to the throw but the placement of the throw favors the receiver and makes it tougher for the DB.

My concern is more that the safety was VERY easy to read here and Kap still looked in the wrong direction. To me, it was a trivial decision to NOT look to the left and throw Patton open to the right. Seeing that safety move that far over, Kap should have adjusted and gotten himself ready quicker to make an anticipated throw to the right and thrown Patton open.

He's gonna have to get to this point. I don't know if the pressure threw it off, but in this case it appears that both side worked someone open..,,I agree though the bigger play potential was looking off the safety and hitting Patton on the square in.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Kap actually had one hitch after he hit the top of his drop. With the room Patton had to work with, Kap could have thrown a softer pass that was more inside and upfield that would have allowed Patton to adjust after turning on his break. These are the throws Rodgers and some of the top QB's in the league make. They force the receiver to adjust to the throw but the placement of the throw favors the receiver and makes it tougher for the DB.

My concern is more that the safety was VERY easy to read here and Kap still looked in the wrong direction. To me, it was a trivial decision to NOT look to the left and throw Patton open to the right. Seeing that safety move that far over, Kap should have adjusted and gotten himself ready quicker to make an anticipated throw to the right and thrown Patton open.

He's gonna have to get to this point. I don't know if the pressure threw it off, but in this case it appears that both side worked someone open..,,I agree though the bigger play potential was looking off the safety and hitting Patton on the square in.

One of Kap biggest issues last year was ignoring the concept side and throwing to the backside receiver. The guys showed a ton of plays from last season where he done this and got in trouble. I get Patton got some separation on that route, but as did VD, which was the concept side. I'm not knocking him for looking concept side and if he gets another second that's a completed pass for a first. Someone mention earlier, if he can't get it to VD, no way he gets it to Patton even with the hitch. Also he would have had to open up to the backside on his dropback. I don't think that moves the safety the way it does when he opens up to the concept side.

Originally posted by JDMathews49ers:

One of Kap biggest issues last year was ignoring the concept side and throwing to the backside receiver. The guys showed a ton of plays from last season where he done this and got in trouble. I get Patton got some separation on that route, but as did VD, which was the concept side. I'm not knocking him for looking concept side and if he gets another second that's a completed pass for a first. Someone mention earlier, if he can't get it to VD, no way he gets it to Patton even with the hitch. Also he would have had to open up to the backside on his dropback. I don't think that moves the safety the way it does when he opens up to the concept side.

Kap had a big problem ignoring the conceptside especially in 2013, so I'm not knocking him when he works it. It's also possible that the stills are exaggerating the movement of the safety on this particular play. However, if he was able to get this sort of movement it would seem it's based on the safety totally reading kaps eyes. The more polished play is looking him off and and hitting that square in.

On this play there was 2 rights, and if pass pro would have held we would have got a first. I think this is a play where you would hope the coaches would show kap the Movement of the safety in the film room and file it away.

The backside WR is Torrey. You can tell by his stance. He always hunches his back like that. A lot of weight on his front foot to push off.


The deep safety shades to the concept side when he sees Kap look to there. Otherwise, my guess is he favors Torrey's side since by this point in the game, Torrey already caught the long bomb.

Just to finish the thought, Torrey had been running a bunch of curls in the 1st quarter. Now it's time to set up the CB with a double move. We've seen it already so I'll just post the gif.

Originally posted by thl408:

The backside WR is Torrey. You can tell by his stance. He always hunches his back like that. A lot of weight on his front foot to push off.


The deep safety shades to the concept side when he sees Kap look to there. Otherwise, my guess is he favors Torrey's side since by this point in the game, Torrey already caught the long bomb.

Makes sense the split end being TS.

From the gif, about a split second after the hitch he is sacked. So it looks like he wouldn't have had time to go backside.

You know my thoughts about kap going backside too much....,but given that it's was TS and the movement safety made by looking at kap, had he had time to look off I think we would've loved the results.