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New Head Coach Search Commences! Rumors and all else goes here!

  • Jcool
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 44,252
Interesting article:

With Kyle Shanahan all but signed on as the 49ers' next sacrificial lamb head coach, all six coaching jobs have been filled. Shanahan joins Sean McVay (Rams), Doug Marrone (Jaguars), Sean McDermott (Bills), Anthony Lynn (Chargers) and Vance Joseph (Broncos) as the coaching Class of 2017.

I certainly have made my thoughts known on the state of NFL coaching, and I'm not overly enthused about this group outside of Shanahan and McDermott, who both have the type of track record (multiple years as a coordinator, coaching in different systems with different coaches) that seems to be indicative of success.

But I wanted to get more of a sense of what people inside the game think about the big picture in regards to this latest round of coaching hires, a job pool that didn't entice Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels enough to take a job. So I asked three executives, all from successful franchises, what they thought. It wasn't pretty, and their scorn was universally aimed at one place: the owners.

"They've made a lot of money in business, but it's incredible to me how far out of their depth they really are on this," said one executive. "They have absolutely no idea what they're doing. Look at Jacksonville. They keep Marrone—I mean, he was an assistant head coach on that team the past two years [8–24], was he not?—and say he's by far the best candidate. After speaking to McDaniels, Shanahan and Mike Smith? Are you kidding? He was obviously the best candidate to give that whole group another shot at proving they put together a good team and quarterback. Bulletin: They're not that good, it wasn't Gus's fault. And then, after hiring Marrone, the owner hires Tom Coughlin to oversee everything. Basically he's telling [GM] Dave [Caldwell] what to do? How else is that going? I don't know. I think that most of these places are screwed up."

That was basically the consensus: Owners are morons.

"I think the one thing about these jobs is the only way for true success is if you're philosophically aligned in everything that you do," said another executive. "And that means everything. From how you grade draft prospects to what your philosophy is on surgeries to your free-agent process and your position descriptions. There's a laundry list of things that you have to have the right partner. You can't be trying to mesh two philosophies that are different. It's just very difficult. Somebody's got to be the bull, whether it's the GM or the coach, and they both have to see everything the exact same way."

They have a point. Look at this season's most successful franchises. Bill Belichick has full control of the Patriots. In Dallas, Jason Garrett had been with the Cowboys and knew exactly what he was signing up for. In Kansas City, Andy Reid brought in long-time friend John Dorsey to run personnel. In Atlanta, coach Dan Quinn was given final organizational say and works with GM Thomas Dimitroff on everything. The Steelers have a tried and true organizational philosophy. The Seahawks are Pete Carroll's show, and GM John Schneider was brought in to get Carroll's players. In Green Bay, Ted Thompson is a strong GM, but he had previous experience with Mike McCarthy before hiring him. John Elway runs the show in the Denver, and he won biggest with a coach (Gary Kubiak) he had a lot of history with.

Now let's look at the recently failed regimes, they all have the same theme: all five involved shotgun marriages between coaches and GMs that had no previous working relationships (Les Snead/Jeff Fisher, Rams; Dave Caldwell/Gus Bradley, Jaguars; Doug Whaley/Rex Ryan, Bills; Tom Telesco/Mike McCoy, Chargers; Trent Baalke/Chip Kelly, 49ers).

None of this year's new hires has a past with the dominant power broker in the building. Elway at least has a loose relationship with Joseph through Kubiak, who had Joseph on his Texans staff. Marrone and Caldwell certainly have a history from the past two years, but if Coughlin now calls all the shots, that doesn't count for much.

All the while, both McDaniels and Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia will be in their current jobs for at least another year. Why? No one has a good answer. The 49ers insisted on interviewing GM candidates, which may have turned off McDaniels, who wanted to choose his own GM. McDaniels likely told the Rams and Jaguars the truth—that both their young quarterbacks (Jared Goff and Blake Bortles) were not the answer—while the GMs that traded up (Rams) or overdrafted (Jaguars) to get both were part of the interviews. Gee, I wonder why both teams then went with coaches (McVay and Marrone) who will gladly work with those quarterbacks.

"The only way McDaniels is going to take a head job is it's got to be that way: He has to be working with somebody that he knows," said another executive. "Belichick is a brilliant guy and Brady is awesome, I get all that. But if you were an owner and you hire a guy from that system, wouldn't you want that guy to use that model? Why argue against that model? That model has been successful for 16 years now. It's incredible. Belichick only wins because of Brady? That's the dumbest thing you could ever say. There's a process to how they do things. Why wouldn't you encourage him to utilize that process? I don't understand it."

Between keeping Roger Goodell in his job and failing to fill open jobs within their own franchises efficiently, this is the latest installment of the running series "how owners are ruining the NFL".

http://www.si.com/nfl/2017/01/19/nfl-coaches-josh-mcdaniels-conference-championship-games
Originally posted by Jcool:
Interesting article:

With Kyle Shanahan all but signed on as the 49ers' next sacrificial lamb head coach, all six coaching jobs have been filled. Shanahan joins Sean McVay (Rams), Doug Marrone (Jaguars), Sean McDermott (Bills), Anthony Lynn (Chargers) and Vance Joseph (Broncos) as the coaching Class of 2017.

I certainly have made my thoughts known on the state of NFL coaching, and I'm not overly enthused about this group outside of Shanahan and McDermott, who both have the type of track record (multiple years as a coordinator, coaching in different systems with different coaches) that seems to be indicative of success.

But I wanted to get more of a sense of what people inside the game think about the big picture in regards to this latest round of coaching hires, a job pool that didn't entice Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels enough to take a job. So I asked three executives, all from successful franchises, what they thought. It wasn't pretty, and their scorn was universally aimed at one place: the owners.

"They've made a lot of money in business, but it's incredible to me how far out of their depth they really are on this," said one executive. "They have absolutely no idea what they're doing. Look at Jacksonville. They keep Marrone—I mean, he was an assistant head coach on that team the past two years [8–24], was he not?—and say he's by far the best candidate. After speaking to McDaniels, Shanahan and Mike Smith? Are you kidding? He was obviously the best candidate to give that whole group another shot at proving they put together a good team and quarterback. Bulletin: They're not that good, it wasn't Gus's fault. And then, after hiring Marrone, the owner hires Tom Coughlin to oversee everything. Basically he's telling [GM] Dave [Caldwell] what to do? How else is that going? I don't know. I think that most of these places are screwed up."

That was basically the consensus: Owners are morons.

"I think the one thing about these jobs is the only way for true success is if you're philosophically aligned in everything that you do," said another executive. "And that means everything. From how you grade draft prospects to what your philosophy is on surgeries to your free-agent process and your position descriptions. There's a laundry list of things that you have to have the right partner. You can't be trying to mesh two philosophies that are different. It's just very difficult. Somebody's got to be the bull, whether it's the GM or the coach, and they both have to see everything the exact same way."

They have a point. Look at this season's most successful franchises. Bill Belichick has full control of the Patriots. In Dallas, Jason Garrett had been with the Cowboys and knew exactly what he was signing up for. In Kansas City, Andy Reid brought in long-time friend John Dorsey to run personnel. In Atlanta, coach Dan Quinn was given final organizational say and works with GM Thomas Dimitroff on everything. The Steelers have a tried and true organizational philosophy. The Seahawks are Pete Carroll's show, and GM John Schneider was brought in to get Carroll's players. In Green Bay, Ted Thompson is a strong GM, but he had previous experience with Mike McCarthy before hiring him. John Elway runs the show in the Denver, and he won biggest with a coach (Gary Kubiak) he had a lot of history with.

Now let's look at the recently failed regimes, they all have the same theme: all five involved shotgun marriages between coaches and GMs that had no previous working relationships (Les Snead/Jeff Fisher, Rams; Dave Caldwell/Gus Bradley, Jaguars; Doug Whaley/Rex Ryan, Bills; Tom Telesco/Mike McCoy, Chargers; Trent Baalke/Chip Kelly, 49ers).

None of this year's new hires has a past with the dominant power broker in the building. Elway at least has a loose relationship with Joseph through Kubiak, who had Joseph on his Texans staff. Marrone and Caldwell certainly have a history from the past two years, but if Coughlin now calls all the shots, that doesn't count for much.

All the while, both McDaniels and Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia will be in their current jobs for at least another year. Why? No one has a good answer. The 49ers insisted on interviewing GM candidates, which may have turned off McDaniels, who wanted to choose his own GM. McDaniels likely told the Rams and Jaguars the truth—that both their young quarterbacks (Jared Goff and Blake Bortles) were not the answer—while the GMs that traded up (Rams) or overdrafted (Jaguars) to get both were part of the interviews. Gee, I wonder why both teams then went with coaches (McVay and Marrone) who will gladly work with those quarterbacks.

"The only way McDaniels is going to take a head job is it's got to be that way: He has to be working with somebody that he knows," said another executive. "Belichick is a brilliant guy and Brady is awesome, I get all that. But if you were an owner and you hire a guy from that system, wouldn't you want that guy to use that model? Why argue against that model? That model has been successful for 16 years now. It's incredible. Belichick only wins because of Brady? That's the dumbest thing you could ever say. There's a process to how they do things. Why wouldn't you encourage him to utilize that process? I don't understand it."

Between keeping Roger Goodell in his job and failing to fill open jobs within their own franchises efficiently, this is the latest installment of the running series "how owners are ruining the NFL".

http://www.si.com/nfl/2017/01/19/nfl-coaches-josh-mcdaniels-conference-championship-games

Dumb article. Started out sorta using the Niners owner as example of bad, but then goes into what the other owner of another team that did the wrongs.

So basically Jed went about the right way to get his HC and GM, and his hiring of a HC then let him pick his GM wouldn't have piss off McD at all. So WTH is the article's problem with Niners again...

Niners used the same method with Nolan and McCloughan. They had good working relationship and picked some pretty good player both in draft and FA
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Jan 19, 2017 at 3:08 PM ]
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Dumb article. Started out sorta using the Niners owner as example of bad, but then goes into what the other owner of another team that did the wrongs.

So basically Jed went about the right way to get his HC and GM, and his hiring of a HC then let him pick his GM wouldn't have piss off McD at all. So WTH is the article's problem with Niners again...

Niners used the same method with Nolan and McCloughan. They had good working relationship and picked some pretty good player both in draft and FA

I think 4 coaches in 4 years is bad. His example of Baalke/Kelly being a poor marriage and the fact that they insisted on interviewing GMs eliminated McDaniels from being attracted enough to make the jump. And the general thing about owners not letting a bull like coach/Gm have full control.

Who is in control here? Even Jeds mommy has to step in. And what Is the deal with Paraag and his accountability?

Shanahan is by all reports a great hire. But are we going down the path of Harbaugh again? I certainly hope we do and they get out of the way. Otherwise they will prove yet again to be morons.
  • pd24
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,268
Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Dumb article. Started out sorta using the Niners owner as example of bad, but then goes into what the other owner of another team that did the wrongs.

So basically Jed went about the right way to get his HC and GM, and his hiring of a HC then let him pick his GM wouldn't have piss off McD at all. So WTH is the article's problem with Niners again...

Niners used the same method with Nolan and McCloughan. They had good working relationship and picked some pretty good player both in draft and FA

I think 4 coaches in 4 years is bad. His example of Baalke/Kelly being a poor marriage and the fact that they insisted on interviewing GMs eliminated McDaniels from being attracted enough to make the jump. And the general thing about owners not letting a bull like coach/Gm have full control.

Who is in control here? Even Jeds mommy has to step in. And what Is the deal with Paraag and his accountability?

Shanahan is by all reports a great hire. But are we going down the path of Harbaugh again? I certainly hope we do and they get out of the way. Otherwise they will prove yet again to be morons.

How are we going down the path of Harbaugh? Shanahan has had input on the GM and is meeting with them next week. Shanahan will most likely have more control than the new GM.
Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:
I think 4 coaches in 4 years is bad. His example of Baalke/Kelly being a poor marriage and the fact that they insisted on interviewing GMs eliminated McDaniels from being attracted enough to make the jump. And the general thing about owners not letting a bull like coach/Gm have full control.

Who is in control here? Even Jeds mommy has to step in. And what Is the deal with Paraag and his accountability?

Shanahan is by all reports a great hire. But are we going down the path of Harbaugh again? I certainly hope we do and they get out of the way. Otherwise they will prove yet again to be morons.

If McDaniels was insisting on a less than stellar GM, I don't blame them for looking elsewhere.



The way they've gone about isn't much different than Atlanta, Kansas City and Seattle. If you notice all those teams were in the playoffs.
[ Edited by Phoenix49ers on Jan 19, 2017 at 3:27 PM ]
The introductory press conference gonna be


Tomsulas
Originally posted by pd24:
How are we going down the path of Harbaugh? Shanahan has had input on the GM and is meeting with them next week. Shanahan will most likely have more control than the new GM.

Let's hope so. Forgive my cynicism when it comes to Jed.
Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Dumb article. Started out sorta using the Niners owner as example of bad, but then goes into what the other owner of another team that did the wrongs.

So basically Jed went about the right way to get his HC and GM, and his hiring of a HC then let him pick his GM wouldn't have piss off McD at all. So WTH is the article's problem with Niners again...

Niners used the same method with Nolan and McCloughan. They had good working relationship and picked some pretty good player both in draft and FA

I think 4 coaches in 4 years is bad. His example of Baalke/Kelly being a poor marriage and the fact that they insisted on interviewing GMs eliminated McDaniels from being attracted enough to make the jump. And the general thing about owners not letting a bull like coach/Gm have full control.

Who is in control here? Even Jeds mommy has to step in. And what Is the deal with Paraag and his accountability?

Shanahan is by all reports a great hire. But are we going down the path of Harbaugh again? I certainly hope we do and they get out of the way. Otherwise they will prove yet again to be morons.

I think that's BS inference from the article. Interviewing GM first doesn't equate to hiring them first. It's to find out who they would prefer to be the HC, and if it match up with the coach they interview later. Each candidate whether GM or HC can give you more options as they list out their guys that they prefer to work with. It's up to the owner to connect the dots. McD didn't pull out because we interview some other GM first.

The proof of their method is play out right now. They already let Shanahan know he's their guy. Up next is the GM. Gutekunst probably picked Shanahan as the HC if he is the GM, so Jed easily connect the dot on behalf of Kyle, who is busy with his current team.
Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
If McDaniels was insisting on a less than stellar GM, I don't blame them for looking elsewhere.



The way they've gone about isn't much different than Atlanta, Kansas City and Seattle. If you notice all those teams were in the playoffs.

That's just it. We only need one Bull type leader that has total control. Those teams you mention kinda have that.

Do we really know how Jed and Paraag have gone about it? the apparent leaks and we have had a lot of withdrawals that make us look less than stellar.
I'm very scared to give personnel control to Shanahan...please God let me be wrong about the man.
Originally posted by genus49:
I'm very scared to give personnel control to Shanahan...please God let me be wrong about the man.

The worst Shanahan can do is trade or whiff on the #2 pick. There's no franchise type player on the roster like Cutler to trade away, then draft someone like Tebow with the 25th pick
[ Edited by qnnhan7 on Jan 19, 2017 at 3:49 PM ]
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Dumb article. Started out sorta using the Niners owner as example of bad, but then goes into what the other owner of another team that did the wrongs.

So basically Jed went about the right way to get his HC and GM, and his hiring of a HC then let him pick his GM wouldn't have piss off McD at all. So WTH is the article's problem with Niners again...

Niners used the same method with Nolan and McCloughan. They had good working relationship and picked some pretty good player both in draft and FA

I think 4 coaches in 4 years is bad. His example of Baalke/Kelly being a poor marriage and the fact that they insisted on interviewing GMs eliminated McDaniels from being attracted enough to make the jump. And the general thing about owners not letting a bull like coach/Gm have full control.

Who is in control here? Even Jeds mommy has to step in. And what Is the deal with Paraag and his accountability?

Shanahan is by all reports a great hire. But are we going down the path of Harbaugh again? I certainly hope we do and they get out of the way. Otherwise they will prove yet again to be morons.

I think that's BS inference from the article. Interviewing GM first doesn't equate to hiring them first. It's to find out who they would prefer to be the HC, and if it match up with the coach they interview later. Each candidate whether GM or HC can give you more options as they list out their guys that they prefer to work with. It's up to the owner to connect the dots. McD didn't pull out because we interview some other GM first.

The proof of their method is play out right now. They already let Shanahan know he's their guy. Up next is the GM. Gutekunst probably picked Shanahan as the HC if he is the GM, so Jed easily connect the dot on behalf of Kyle, who is busy with his current team.

I like your optimism.

Hate to be back here next year talking about banners and new coaches/GM again.

The interviewing of GM first thing still points to them not really knowing what they wanted in a coach first. If they really wanted McDaniels then they could find out what he wants and then do it. But if they wanted to play the field because they are not hot on the patriots system then that's where we are. Thank the lord Shanny wants the job.
Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:
That's just it. We only need one Bull type leader that has total control. Those teams you mention kinda have that.

Do we really know how Jed and Paraag have gone about it? the apparent leaks and we have had a lot of withdrawals that make us look less than stellar.

The HC as dictator arrangement fails a lot more often than it works. For every Belichick or Bill Walsh you have a whole bunch of other guys that can't handle that power responsibility. The way Atlanta and KC do it, where the HC and GM are basically on the same level and collaborate with each other isn't a bad way of going about it.




Those teams you mention kinda have that.

They really don't. The teams where is one guy that runs everything completely are very few.
  • pd24
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 9,268
Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:
Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:
+ Show all quotes
I think 4 coaches in 4 years is bad. His example of Baalke/Kelly being a poor marriage and the fact that they insisted on interviewing GMs eliminated McDaniels from being attracted enough to make the jump. And the general thing about owners not letting a bull like coach/Gm have full control.

Who is in control here? Even Jeds mommy has to step in. And what Is the deal with Paraag and his accountability?

Shanahan is by all reports a great hire. But are we going down the path of Harbaugh again? I certainly hope we do and they get out of the way. Otherwise they will prove yet again to be morons.

I think that's BS inference from the article. Interviewing GM first doesn't equate to hiring them first. It's to find out who they would prefer to be the HC, and if it match up with the coach they interview later. Each candidate whether GM or HC can give you more options as they list out their guys that they prefer to work with. It's up to the owner to connect the dots. McD didn't pull out because we interview some other GM first.

The proof of their method is play out right now. They already let Shanahan know he's their guy. Up next is the GM. Gutekunst probably picked Shanahan as the HC if he is the GM, so Jed easily connect the dot on behalf of Kyle, who is busy with his current team.

I like your optimism.

Hate to be back here next year talking about banners and new coaches/GM again.

The interviewing of GM first thing still points to them not really knowing what they wanted in a coach first. If they really wanted McDaniels then they could find out what he wants and then do it. But if they wanted to play the field because they are not hot on the patriots system then that's where we are. Thank the lord Shanny wants the job.

Umm.... They interviewed a GM that was connected to each coach they interviewed. Also, what type of team would wait around until after the SB or playoff run so the coach can start picking a GM. They obviously discussed the GM names with each coach and now that they have the coach, they are going to let him see how he lines up with the finalists and get his input.
  • kem99
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 946
Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:
I think 4 coaches in 4 years is bad. His example of Baalke/Kelly being a poor marriage and the fact that they insisted on interviewing GMs eliminated McDaniels from being attracted enough to make the jump. And the general thing about owners not letting a bull like coach/Gm have full control.

Who is in control here? Even Jeds mommy has to step in. And what Is the deal with Paraag and his accountability?

Shanahan is by all reports a great hire. But are we going down the path of Harbaugh again? I certainly hope we do and they get out of the way. Otherwise they will prove yet again to be morons.
Actually, that's not true. Bedard never says taht Jed interviewing GM candidates eliminated McDaniels from wanting to make the jump. Rather, he says,

"All the while, both McDaniels and Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia will be in their current jobs for at least another year. Why? No one has a good answer. The 49ers insisted on interviewing GM candidates, which may have turned off McDaniels, who wanted to choose his own GM."

So basically, Bedard is saying he doesn't know and speculates that it might have had something to do with Jed interviewing GM candidates, though he never explains how that would have eliminated McDaniels from picking his own GM if he had continued through the process (and beat out Shanahan).
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