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  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Doesn't sound like Lynch plans to tag or re-sign Chase Young. If he gets 10+ sacks no way the 9ers can or will re-sign him.

Yeah he talks like he normally does, "never say never" ... In other words zero chance he returns for our 24-25 season if healthy. Which sucks, but the reality is not many teams can afford two star edge guys on second contracts.

Exactly what I was thinking. Hopefully with the $40 mil cap space they could use some on him and hopefully he wants to return.
  • Kolohe
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Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Doesn't sound like Lynch plans to tag or re-sign Chase Young. If he gets 10+ sacks no way the 9ers can or will re-sign him.

Unfortunately unless it becomes apparent we need to keep him and Bosa together.

Then sign a second tier DT/NT and fix this run defense.
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Of course it was another DL.

Teams will just continue to pass quickly and stuff our run game. Thrilling.
Of course you wouldn't admit that you were wrong to say 2.5 hours for them to do nothing.

As for Young, are you really going to call the addition of Young just another DE? Do you also believe that the team suddenly doesn't know how to pass rush? Teams could've employed the get rid of the ball quickly strategy that you suggest for the last 4 years, but for some reason, they didn't, or ot didn't work as nearly as effective as it has this year.

Respect for the move but this still helps nothing. OL and secondary is what this team needs more than anything.

Again, teams will continue to pass in 2.5s and stuff our run.

This is great, don't get me wrong, but in the end, it solves about our 3rd or 4th 'need' and probably nothing in the end. Hell, we've barely even used Gregory.

This helps nothing...

Okay.

We are bottom tier in run D. You cannot control a game as a bottom tier run D. We now do not have to depend on Drake Jackson. Its a need. If Wilks somehow gets back to what our D was prior to his arrival, they will need to be able to stop the run and rush the passer, from the edges, and they will have 3 guys that can do that not including Ferrell or Jackson..

Now I won't disagree about the O-line or corner need, but you are literally dismissing a top-10 player at his position. If passing the ball in 2.5 seconds was such an easy strategy to employ on this defense, then why didn't that work over the last 2 years? Why didn't it work in 2019? The D is going to fall on Wiks. He has an embarrassment of talent. Enough to cover for DB shortcomings. We'll see what Kyle does on the offensive side. They have their holes on O but the reality is, they have enough to get it done. Let's see if they actually get it done. I'm not optimistic or pessimistic. Just going to wait and see. After the defensive crap, I cannot be emotionally involved.

We're 5th best in run defense. I heard all this talk with the Hargrave addition as well. How much has the needle moved from last year's #1 defense with a far better 3T than what we had last year? Not much, huh?

You know me. I'm ALL about building up the trenches so I'm not upset at all of the move. I love it. It will help but nowhere near where the real problems lie and certainly not enough to move the needle that ''could' help overcompensate for our real issues. This, in the end, gets us nowhere near a Superbowl roster.

They have their holes on O but the reality is, they have enough to get it done.

As to this comment, I couldn't disagree more. That's been even more proven a fallacy without TW in the lineup --- you see how poor the the talent and depth is standing on their own. Even with a healthy TW, this is not reality.

IMHO, a team relying on a DL and a running game is building from a 1990's model. That's just not this league anymore.

We are the 5th best run D. Now take a look at the rushing yardage surrendered 2 of the last 3 weeks. The one week we didn't get run on, Kirk Cousins looked like Drew Brees.

As for Hargrave not moving the needle, the defensive issues have been discussed. Do you think this is a Hargrave issue or is it play calls? I say the latter. The whole D looks off. And I'm not just going to say hey, QBs can just get rid of the ball quick. We generally got to QBs in the last four years until this year. The problem is mostly Wilks. All of our experts that can breakdown whats going on have pointed out how this is happening.

As forvus moving towards a Super Bowl, it depends.

1. Brock can't turn the ball over the way he has.

2. Defense can't have guys completing 75% of their passes. Even if we remove Oliver's poor play, QBs are still completing a lot of passes against us.

3. D line has to play to their standard. They have not.

4. Wilks needs to dig into the Saleh/Ryan's playbook. Idk whats going on, but this ain't it.

The addition of Young should have a 2019 level pass rush and when Womack is back, an even better secondary IF we play up to our level.

I think all of the above can happen. The only uncertainty to me is kicker (can Moody make the kicks when the money is on the line) and QB (i know Brock is good, but can he be great when the pressure is on?).
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Doesn't sound like Lynch plans to tag or re-sign Chase Young. If he gets 10+ sacks no way the 9ers can or will re-sign him.

Unfortunately unless it becomes apparent we need to keep him and Bosa together.

Then sign a second tier DT/NT and fix this run defense.

Could use McGill.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Of course it was another DL.

Teams will just continue to pass quickly and stuff our run game. Thrilling.
Of course you wouldn't admit that you were wrong to say 2.5 hours for them to do nothing.

As for Young, are you really going to call the addition of Young just another DE? Do you also believe that the team suddenly doesn't know how to pass rush? Teams could've employed the get rid of the ball quickly strategy that you suggest for the last 4 years, but for some reason, they didn't, or ot didn't work as nearly as effective as it has this year.

Respect for the move but this still helps nothing. OL and secondary is what this team needs more than anything.

Again, teams will continue to pass in 2.5s and stuff our run.

This is great, don't get me wrong, but in the end, it solves about our 3rd or 4th 'need' and probably nothing in the end. Hell, we've barely even used Gregory.

This helps nothing...

Okay.

We are bottom tier in run D. You cannot control a game as a bottom tier run D. We now do not have to depend on Drake Jackson. Its a need. If Wilks somehow gets back to what our D was prior to his arrival, they will need to be able to stop the run and rush the passer, from the edges, and they will have 3 guys that can do that not including Ferrell or Jackson..

Now I won't disagree about the O-line or corner need, but you are literally dismissing a top-10 player at his position. If passing the ball in 2.5 seconds was such an easy strategy to employ on this defense, then why didn't that work over the last 2 years? Why didn't it work in 2019? The D is going to fall on Wiks. He has an embarrassment of talent. Enough to cover for DB shortcomings. We'll see what Kyle does on the offensive side. They have their holes on O but the reality is, they have enough to get it done. Let's see if they actually get it done. I'm not optimistic or pessimistic. Just going to wait and see. After the defensive crap, I cannot be emotionally involved.

We're 5th best in run defense. I heard all this talk with the Hargrave addition as well. How much has the needle moved from last year's #1 defense with a far better 3T than what we had last year? Not much, huh?

You know me. I'm ALL about building up the trenches so I'm not upset at all of the move. I love it. It will help but nowhere near where the real problems lie and certainly not enough to move the needle that ''could' help overcompensate for our real issues. This, in the end, gets us nowhere near a Superbowl roster.

They have their holes on O but the reality is, they have enough to get it done.

As to this comment, I couldn't disagree more. That's been even more proven a fallacy without TW in the lineup --- you see how poor the the talent and depth is standing on their own. Even with a healthy TW, this is not reality.

IMHO, a team relying on a DL and a running game is building from a 1990's model. That's just not this league anymore.

We are the 5th best run D. Now take a look at the rushing yardage surrendered 2 of the last 3 weeks. The one week we didn't get run on, Kirk Cousins looked like Drew Brees.

As for Hargrave not moving the needle, the defensive issues have been discussed. Do you think this is a Hargrave issue or is it play calls? I say the latter. The whole D looks off. And I'm not just going to say hey, QBs can just get rid of the ball quick. We generally got to QBs in the last four years until this year. The problem is mostly Wilks. All of our experts that can breakdown whats going on have pointed out how this is happening.

As forvus moving towards a Super Bowl, it depends.

1. Brock can't turn the ball over the way he has.

2. Defense can't have guys completing 75% of their passes. Even if we remove Oliver's poor play, QBs are still completing a lot of passes against us.

3. D line has to play to their standard. They have not.

4. Wilks needs to dig into the Saleh/Ryan's playbook. Idk whats going on, but this ain't it.

The addition of Young should have a 2019 level pass rush and when Womack is back, an even better secondary IF we play up to our level.

I think all of the above can happen. The only uncertainty to me is kicker (can Moody make the kicks when the money is on the line) and QB (i know Brock is good, but can he be great when the pressure is on?).

I hear you!

It just seems like we have the exact same 3 issues that'll cost us in the end like always: OL, Secondary and QB (TO's).

I'm just not seeing how we overcome OL + Secondary without significantly more talent.

Adding more DL has proven not to move the needle like we hoped.

We're becoming the pure definition of insanity on team building, IMHO.

That doesn't mean we won't recover and go on another great run and be ultra competitive. But I'm more concerned about the end-game and 'winning' #6.

But I do love your optimism and genuinely hope you're right!
[ Edited by NCommand on Nov 3, 2023 at 7:26 AM ]
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Doesn't sound like Lynch plans to tag or re-sign Chase Young. If he gets 10+ sacks no way the 9ers can or will re-sign him.

Yeah he talks like he normally does, "never say never" ... In other words zero chance he returns for our 24-25 season if healthy. Which sucks, but the reality is not many teams can afford two star edge guys on second contracts.

Exactly what I was thinking. Hopefully with the $40 mil cap space they could use some on him and hopefully he wants to return.

With the way he's playing this year, Bosa should agree to a huge restructure so they can sign Young next season.
Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Doesn't sound like Lynch plans to tag or re-sign Chase Young. If he gets 10+ sacks no way the 9ers can or will re-sign him.

Unfortunately unless it becomes apparent we need to keep him and Bosa together.

Then sign a second tier DT/NT and fix this run defense.

Could use McGill.

I really like him too.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 61,909
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Doesn't sound like Lynch plans to tag or re-sign Chase Young. If he gets 10+ sacks no way the 9ers can or will re-sign him.

Yeah he talks like he normally does, "never say never" ... In other words zero chance he returns for our 24-25 season if healthy. Which sucks, but the reality is not many teams can afford two star edge guys on second contracts.

Exactly what I was thinking. Hopefully with the $40 mil cap space they could use some on him and hopefully he wants to return.

With the way he's playing this year, Bosa should agree to a huge restructure so they can sign Young next season.

You don't need to restructure Bosa to re-sign Young, with $40 million rolled over I'm sure they can fit him under the cap and re-sign Aiyuk. They also could either tag and trade him or just place the franchise tag on him altogether for $20 mil.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Doesn't sound like Lynch plans to tag or re-sign Chase Young. If he gets 10+ sacks no way the 9ers can or will re-sign him.

Yeah he talks like he normally does, "never say never" ... In other words zero chance he returns for our 24-25 season if healthy. Which sucks, but the reality is not many teams can afford two star edge guys on second contracts.

Exactly what I was thinking. Hopefully with the $40 mil cap space they could use some on him and hopefully he wants to return.

With the way he's playing this year, Bosa should agree to a huge restructure so they can sign Young next season.

You don't need to restructure Bosa to re-sign Young, with $40 million rolled over I'm sure they can fit him under the cap and re-sign Aiyuk. They also could either tag and trade him or just place the franchise tag on him altogether for $20 mil.

This is 100% correct, Deebo redo will help with signing FAs, saves $15.8M, cutting Gregory saves $14M, $10M if they redo him to keep him for 1 more year. Extending the likes of AA, Dre, & Mooney can save up to $27.668M, right there is over $50M in cap room cleared, enough to sign FAs to replace those who leave, and new guys on 1yr deals, plus tag/extend Chase.
The last 4 drafts haven't been all that great
2020 - 2 starters and 1 quality back up in Jennings. Black eye is Kinlaw
2021 - awful draft. Trey Lance trade was super ugly. After that it didn't get much better. Got a starter in Banks. Moore is our swing tackle so there is some value there.
2022 - All about Brock draft. outside of him they got a bad starting RG. Had hopes for Drake but they've just traded for 2 guys at his position.
2023 - way too early to tell but it's bad when your only contributions are from your 3rd round kicker who has lost them a game already. Not looking for guys to be rockstars out of the gates but they are getting absolutely nothing.

Every pick isn't going to workout but they can't afford this many number of failures going forward.
Originally posted by lamontb:
The last 4 drafts haven't been all that great
2020 - 2 starters and 1 quality back up in Jennings. Black eye is Kinlaw
2021 - awful draft. Trey Lance trade was super ugly. After that it didn't get much better. Got a starter in Banks. Moore is our swing tackle so there is some value there.
2022 - All about Brock draft. outside of him they got a bad starting RG. Had hopes for Drake but they've just traded for 2 guys at his position.
2023 - way too early to tell but it's bad when your only contributions are from your 3rd round kicker who has lost them a game already. Not looking for guys to be rockstars out of the gates but they are getting absolutely nothing.

Every pick isn't going to workout but they can't afford this many number of failures going forward.

Like you said you can't hit on every pick, gotta give Burford time. 2021 got us also Hufanga, & Lenoir, both playing well/good, need to be better, but still good.

If you get 1-3 starters out of a draft I say that's a success, but that's my opinion.
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Like you said you can't hit on every pick, gotta give Burford time. 2021 got us also Hufanga, & Lenoir, both playing well/good, need to be better, but still good.

If you get 1-3 starters out of a draft I say that's a success, but that's my opinion.

If you get one all pro starter out of a draft its a huge success.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 61,909
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Doesn't sound like Lynch plans to tag or re-sign Chase Young. If he gets 10+ sacks no way the 9ers can or will re-sign him.

Yeah he talks like he normally does, "never say never" ... In other words zero chance he returns for our 24-25 season if healthy. Which sucks, but the reality is not many teams can afford two star edge guys on second contracts.

Exactly what I was thinking. Hopefully with the $40 mil cap space they could use some on him and hopefully he wants to return.

With the way he's playing this year, Bosa should agree to a huge restructure so they can sign Young next season.

You don't need to restructure Bosa to re-sign Young, with $40 million rolled over I'm sure they can fit him under the cap and re-sign Aiyuk. They also could either tag and trade him or just place the franchise tag on him altogether for $20 mil.

This is 100% correct, Deebo redo will help with signing FAs, saves $15.8M, cutting Gregory saves $14M, $10M if they redo him to keep him for 1 more year. Extending the likes of AA, Dre, & Mooney can save up to $27.668M, right there is over $50M in cap room cleared, enough to sign FAs to replace those who leave, and new guys on 1yr deals, plus tag/extend Chase.

Thanks AB. Also looking at the 49ers upcoming free agents it looks like Chase Young is the only real priority. Darnold should've be a hard re-sign. I could see them easily re-signing Woerner, Dwelley and Ray Ray. I'm not counting on Juan Jennings re-signing because I think someone is gonna throw more money at him than Lynch would like. Kevin Givens, Feliciano and Ferrell should also be all easy re-signings if they don't get offers elsewhere.

Chase Young should and I think will be the priority. And I bet they'll be in a signing Jaylon Johnson too.
  • Kolohe
  • Hall of Fame
  • Posts: 61,909
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Like you said you can't hit on every pick, gotta give Burford time. 2021 got us also Hufanga, & Lenoir, both playing well/good, need to be better, but still good.

If you get 1-3 starters out of a draft I say that's a success, but that's my opinion.

If you get one all pro starter out of a draft its a huge success.

Totally agree.
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Originally posted by Kolohe:
Doesn't sound like Lynch plans to tag or re-sign Chase Young. If he gets 10+ sacks no way the 9ers can or will re-sign him.

Yeah he talks like he normally does, "never say never" ... In other words zero chance he returns for our 24-25 season if healthy. Which sucks, but the reality is not many teams can afford two star edge guys on second contracts.

Exactly what I was thinking. Hopefully with the $40 mil cap space they could use some on him and hopefully he wants to return.

With the way he's playing this year, Bosa should agree to a huge restructure so they can sign Young next season.

You don't need to restructure Bosa to re-sign Young, with $40 million rolled over I'm sure they can fit him under the cap and re-sign Aiyuk. They also could either tag and trade him or just place the franchise tag on him altogether for $20 mil.

This is 100% correct, Deebo redo will help with signing FAs, saves $15.8M, cutting Gregory saves $14M, $10M if they redo him to keep him for 1 more year. Extending the likes of AA, Dre, & Mooney can save up to $27.668M, right there is over $50M in cap room cleared, enough to sign FAs to replace those who leave, and new guys on 1yr deals, plus tag/extend Chase.

Thanks AB. Also looking at the 49ers upcoming free agents it looks like Chase Young is the only real priority. Darnold should've be a hard re-sign. I could see them easily re-signing Woerner, Dwelley and Ray Ray. I'm not counting on Juan Jennings re-signing because I think someone is gonna throw more money at him than Lynch would like. Kevin Givens, Feliciano and Ferrell should also be all easy re-signings if they don't get offers elsewhere.

Chase Young should and I think will be the priority. And I bet they'll be in a signing Jaylon Johnson too.

Right, Chase is the only real priority, as for Jauan, he's a RFA, he'll get the 2nd rd tender, he'll be back for 1 more year IMO.

Woerner, Dwelley, & Ferrell can all walk IMO, I would keep Burks, Ray-Ray, Feliciano, & Givens.

If they do sign a big name, it likely is someone like Jaylon Johnson.
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