49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Giedi:

40% of super bowl *winning* QB's were not picked in the first round.

You're proving his point .

I never diagreed with his Point about the imprtance of a first round quality QB.

Yes you did. It's exactly what you said.

"40% of super bowl *winning* QB's going back to super bowl 35 were not picked in the first round. To me that lessens the importance of picking a QB in the first round."

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

My point wasn't to slight you, just an observation that it's difficult to predict how you get a FQB. You have the top draft pick 10 years in a row and not find a FQB, or you could find a very good QBC who can develop one. So I love the fact that the niners finally hired a quality QB evaluator and coach. Any QB playing for Shanahan will be better than a guy playing for Tomsula. Not sure what to think of Kelly regarding QBs...he had some good results and then again...

I'm pretty sure Baalke's drafts had something to do with it. As for franchise QB, it is hard to predict them. The best you can do is pick the QB that fits the coaches system and vision for the team and let their play speak to whether they are FQB level or not. I'm not adverse (to choose an extreme example) of mortgageing two entire drafts for a FQB, as long as ShanaLynch think this is the best course. But I think ShanaLynch is good enough they they don't need to do that. I think they will be fine either through free agency, trade, or whatever will be available to them in the draft next year. I think the guy that can screw everything up is Jed if he gets impatient and gets too involved again.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Well he's hoping they play well but because they are rookies they will make mental errors that will lose us games to get us closer to the first round, first pick. I just think the players will see that and see it for what it is and lose confidence in the ball club leadership for implementing that strategy.

I'm saying get your young player reps and get the bs mental mistakes out this season and give them a chance to learn the system...if it equals losing it's okay this isn't a playoff caliber team and best way to not have a s**t team is to have those high picks/build through the draft (and make the right pick). I think the raiders/titans are a good example of this.

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Giedi:

40% of super bowl *winning* QB's were not picked in the first round.

You're proving his point .

I never diagreed with his Point about the imprtance of a first round quality QB.

Yes you did. It's exactly what you said.

"40% of super bowl *winning* QB's going back to super bowl 35 were not picked in the first round. To me that lessens the importance of picking a QB in the first round."

Yup and imo it's more important to constantly make the playoffs and be a contender yr in and out. Teams get hot and cold in the playoffs and coaching (ATL SB Seattle SB) or injury can make or break a SB game.

A lot of those qbs that have been a constant are 1st rd picks.

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Giedi:

40% of super bowl *winning* QB's were not picked in the first round.

You're proving his point .

I never diagreed with his Point about the imprtance of a first round quality QB.

Yes you did. It's exactly what you said.

"40% of super bowl *winning* QB's going back to super bowl 35 were not picked in the first round. To me that lessens the importance of picking a QB in the first round."

So you can't do the math the that 60% were picked in the first round?

I think a first round QB has something to do with demand and supply than actual skills. Say we have QB A and QB B - with the same exact skill set both mentally and physically. Then let's say that if there is more demand then that reduces supply and results in higher value. So all these ball clubs want QB A, so they drive his price up from say 3rd to first round. Whereas QB B, doesn't have a lot of demand, so he stays at 3rd round. A lot of GMs drive up the price of certain players and whalla, Sam Donaldson gets picked first round first pick, even though he may not fit the coaches sysrm. (For example) I think this one of the factors that complicate finding a FQB.

Originally posted by NCommand:

... yeah, with the caveat that Kyle's guy is projected to the first round. This year they were prime to get the #1 QB in the on the board in the first round and passed. Kyle doesn't care...while everyone projected Beathard as a 7th rounder, Kyle had him #1 on his board.

That said, I agree with your premise...IF Kyle's #1 QB happens to be projected to the first round, I'd much rather be in the same position as this year to take him vs. having to give away the house to move up to get him.

No real draft analyst had any of these qbs as no-brainer top 5 picks...if that were the case SF or the Browns would have drafted one or some team would have moved up a ton. Last draft is last draft and imo at this point this next draft is gonna be special at the QB position...sure it's early to determine that, but most draft gurus will agree.

Kyle didn't have CJ as his #1 he had his as a 3rd rd pick that doesn't mean anything...sure he sees something in him based on the system he was in but if he was his #1 he would have been the 2nd pick in the draft based on the position. Just because he liked Kirk cousins and he was a mid rd pick doesn't me CJ is gonna be that....people need to be realistic that's all I'm saying. Kirk was by far more consistent and improved in college, unfortunately CJ didn't.

The most important position in sports usually costs a team a top-end pick and I would rather have a chance at getting a QB vs winning a couple more games and miss the playoffs. Who cares if we go 4-12 or 7-9? End of the day we don't make the playoffs and that's what matters most to me....play those young cats and get the mental errors out of the way.

You're not going to get quality free agents at 2-14 tanking the year. You can overpay someone but you'll miss out on the Cowboy if he doesn't think you're serious about winning. I'd rather trust the qb guru developing someone and have a desriable franchise that can land the difference makers then suck for Luck and put all your eggs in that basket that he will save the franchise. To me you play to get 6-7 wins this year, sit CJ and let him learn, and try to sell yourself to the league. Maybe that lands KC or Jimmy G and we won't have to draft a qb. Otherwise you got plan b a stockpile of picks + plan c CJ. If we end up 2-14 I got nothing against taking a qb but I want that to sh** season be earned.

Originally posted by Giedi:

So you can't do the math the that 60% were picked in the first round?

I think a first round QB has something to do with demand and supply than actual skills. Say we have QB A and QB B - with the same exact skill set both mentally and physically. Then let's say that if there is more demand then that reduces supply and results in higher value. So all these ball clubs want QB A, so they drive his price up from say 3rd to first round. Whereas QB B, doesn't have a lot of demand, so he stays at 3rd round. A lot of GMs drive up the price of certain players and whalla, Sam Donaldson gets picked first round first pick, even though he may not fit the coaches sysrm. (For example) I think this one of the factors that complicate finding a FQB.

Only that's no real life lol...most qbs that are draft in the top 5 have a higher skill set and a better mental makeup then a QB drafted outside of the first. That's why they're drafted that high in the 1st place. Sure you have teams that overdraft qbs because the position is that important but I don't see that happening with lynch just based off this past draft.

I'll add the QB position isn't the same as say a RB where most GMs can afford to wait on because OL and system can make them produce. Sure you have your outliers like zeke and LF but they are elite talents.

My whole pt with this is imo and that's all it is next yrs QB draft class is gonna be on par with the 2004 QB draft class...and if we can't get Kirk I want to be part of that compared to winning say 3 more meaningless games.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

... yeah, with the caveat that Kyle's guy is projected to the first round. This year they were prime to get the #1 QB in the on the board in the first round and passed. Kyle doesn't care...while everyone projected Beathard as a 7th rounder, Kyle had him #1 on his board.

That said, I agree with your premise...IF Kyle's #1 QB happens to be projected to the first round, I'd much rather be in the same position as this year to take him vs. having to give away the house to move up to get him.

No real draft analyst had any of these qbs as no-brainer top 5 picks...if that were the case SF or the Browns would have drafted one or some team would have moved up a ton. Last draft is last draft and imo at this point this next draft is gonna be special at the QB position...sure it's early to determine that, but most draft gurus will agree.

Kyle didn't have CJ as his #1 he had his as a 3rd rd pick that doesn't mean anything...sure he sees something in him based on the system he was in but if he was his #1 he would have been the 2nd pick in the draft based on the position. Just because he liked Kirk cousins and he was a mid rd pick doesn't me CJ is gonna be that....people need to be realistic that's all I'm saying. Kirk was by far more consistent and improved in college, unfortunately CJ didn't.

The most important position in sports usually costs a team a top-end pick and I would rather have a chance at getting a QB vs winning a couple more games and miss the playoffs. Who cares if we go 4-12 or 7-9? End of the day we don't make the playoffs and that's what matters most to me....play those young cats and get the mental errors out of the way.

I think Kyle is more concerned with the player himself and his mold vs. the round. We know 3-6 QB's will go in the first round every year and 90% of them will be coming from a spread offense. Obviously, taking a QB in the first round can certainly improve your probability. Hell, I had us taking Trubisky and Peterman just to be safe and ensure the most important position is taken care of to start a rebuild; that, and knowing how long it takes to learn a WCO. If we got KC, great, if not, no worries...full year to sit and learn and then compete with Hoyer next year.

Will there be a QB that has the exact mold for what Kyle is looking for AND have more upside and projected to go in the first round?

If so, I have little doubt ShanaLynch will do what they can to acquire him aggressively.

Kyle had Beathard as the only QB he wanted. That should tell you all you need to know about what he thought of the entire QB class and even more so because we had the #2 overall pick and were in prime position to take the first QB off the board.

He knew the one QB he wanted would be there in the 3rd or 4th rounds. Will that repeat next year or will an even more talented QB with the mold he wants be there in the first or second round?

Originally posted by NCommand:

I think Kyle is more concerned with the player himself and his mold vs. the round. We know 3-6 QB's will go in the first round every year and 90% of them will be coming from a spread offense. Obviously, taking a QB in the first round can certainly improve your probability. Hell, I had us taking Trubisky and Peterman just to be safe and ensure the most important position is taken care of to start a rebuild; that, and knowing how long it takes to learn a WCO. If we got KC, great, if not, no worries...full year to sit and learn and then compete with Hoyer next year.

Will there be a QB that has the exact mold for what Kyle is looking for AND have more upside and projected to go in the first round?

If so, I have little doubt ShanaLynch will do what they can to acquire him aggressively.

Kyle had Beathard as the only QB he wanted. That should tell you all you need to know about what he thought of the entire QB class and even more so because we had the #2 overall pick and were in prime position to take the first QB off the board.

He knew the one QB he wanted would be there in the 3rd or 4th rounds. Will that repeat next year or will an even more talented QB with the mold he wants be there in the first or second round?

We will see...I think all 3 of the top guys most certainly have traits that kyle covets. Let's not make s**t more difficult then it needs to be. All teams want a smart accurate QB that has an NFL caliber arm. It's not like kyle has the QB position all figured out and the rest of the NFL are full of dummies lol....Do some teams take more of a risk on upside/talent/need vs who fits the system sure, but if you're staring at 3 very good prospects that very well could be FQB well let's stop f**king around and draft one lol.

And imo if winning 4 games is what it takes I'm fine with it. I don't want to be competitive for one yr if it affects our future....let's see what these young kids have this yr, let's see who's earned a contract for 2018 and lets see if CJ has any sort of a chance of being anything more than a backup. That's what this season is all about for me...not making the playoffs or winning 7 games, cause I don't think we're remotely close to that yet.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

You're not going to get quality free agents at 2-14 tanking the year. You can overpay someone but you'll miss out on the Cowboy if he doesn't think you're serious about winning. I'd rather trust the qb guru developing someone and have a desriable franchise that can land the difference makers then suck for Luck and put all your eggs in that basket that he will save the franchise. To me you play to get 6-7 wins this year, sit CJ and let him learn, and try to sell yourself to the league. Maybe that lands KC or Jimmy G and we won't have to draft a qb. Otherwise you got plan b a stockpile of picks + plan c CJ. If we end up 2-14 I got nothing against taking a qb but I want that to sh** season be earned.

I'm saying going 4-12 not 2-14 FAs come for money above everything else, That's something that we have a lot of....also from what I've read players what to play in kyle's offense. I'm talking about looking competitive, not a complete s**t show like the past two yrs as well. FAs also like knowing the team isn't gonna get blown up in a yr or two and that's not gonna happen after one bad season here. This is gonna be a process, far from what happened in 2011.

I'm also not saying don't be serious about winning, I'm saying this season imo is sort of a throw away season, it's a first yr in learning a whole new system on offense and defense. Raiders had 3 seasons of 4-12 or 3-13 which in turn got them Mack/cooper/Carr and they still were bringing in vets. Play the young players and see who's who...I see one winnable game in the first 8 games.

What this is all based around (my perspective) is what kyle stated...."You never want to compete in one year at the expense of your future" and I agree.

I will be okay with doubling our win total and improving our ranks on offense/defense in yr one. People thinking we're gonna win 7+ games this upcoming yr need a reality check imo. Since when did hoyer become a "winner" lol? All the FAs we brought in only one was a true pro-bowler and he was a FB. It's gonna take time and I'm okay with that along with getting top end picks next yr to land a QB. If we get Kirk then sell that pick to the highest bidder and be set for the upcoming yrs (example titans).

It's cool if we have different perspectives on this.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

I think Kyle is more concerned with the player himself and his mold vs. the round. We know 3-6 QB's will go in the first round every year and 90% of them will be coming from a spread offense. Obviously, taking a QB in the first round can certainly improve your probability. Hell, I had us taking Trubisky and Peterman just to be safe and ensure the most important position is taken care of to start a rebuild; that, and knowing how long it takes to learn a WCO. If we got KC, great, if not, no worries...full year to sit and learn and then compete with Hoyer next year.

Will there be a QB that has the exact mold for what Kyle is looking for AND have more upside and projected to go in the first round?

If so, I have little doubt ShanaLynch will do what they can to acquire him aggressively.

Kyle had Beathard as the only QB he wanted. That should tell you all you need to know about what he thought of the entire QB class and even more so because we had the #2 overall pick and were in prime position to take the first QB off the board.

He knew the one QB he wanted would be there in the 3rd or 4th rounds. Will that repeat next year or will an even more talented QB with the mold he wants be there in the first or second round?

We will see...I think all 3 of the top guys most certainly have traits that kyle covets. Let's not make s**t more difficult then it needs to be. All teams want a smart accurate QB that has an NFL caliber arm. It's not like kyle has the QB position all figured out and the rest of the NFL are full of dummies lol....Do some teams take more of a risk on upside/talent/need vs who fits the system sure, but if you're staring at 3 very good prospects that very well could be FQB well let's stop f**king around and draft one lol.

And imo if winning 4 games is what it takes I'm fine with it. I don't want to be competitive for one yr if it affects our future....let's see what these young kids have this yr, let's see who's earned a contract for 2018 and lets see if CJ has any sort of a chance of being anything more than a backup. That's what this season is all about for me...not making the playoffs or winning 7 games, cause I don't think we're remotely close to that yet.

Yeah, nothing wrong with that.

As to the QB's, I don't think teams are dumb as they are dealt a delivered hand and that's the landscape they have to work with. Back in the day, the trend was on pro style offenses at the college level and getting the best of the best from that group translated better into the pro game and offenses run at the NFL level.

Now the emphasis is more on athletic running QB's who take every snap from shotgun, no huddle and one read and run with mild accuracy.

Can you imagine the scouting reports on Joe Montana and Phil Simms regarding their 40 times, 3 cones, bench and arm strength? LOL

I'm just saying teams are forced to massively project because of this movement or drastically change their offenses.

But Kyle won't change his whole offense to accommodate an RGIII of Kaepernick and those were two first and high second round picks.

Because of the landscape, Kyle's #1 QB just may be sitting there in the 2nd-4th rounds now.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Giedi:

40% of super bowl *winning* QB's were not picked in the first round.

You're proving his point .

I never diagreed with his Point about the imprtance of a first round quality QB.

Yes you did. It's exactly what you said.

"40% of super bowl *winning* QB's going back to super bowl 35 were not picked in the first round. To me that lessens the importance of picking a QB in the first round."

So you can't do the math the that 60% were picked in the first round?

I think a first round QB has something to do with demand and supply than actual skills. Say we have QB A and QB B - with the same exact skill set both mentally and physically. Then let's say that if there is more demand then that reduces supply and results in higher value. So all these ball clubs want QB A, so they drive his price up from say 3rd to first round. Whereas QB B, doesn't have a lot of demand, so he stays at 3rd round. A lot of GMs drive up the price of certain players and whalla, Sam Donaldson gets picked first round first pick, even though he may not fit the coaches sysrm. (For example) I think this one of the factors that complicate finding a FQB.

Idk if I get your point. 60 percent is way higher than 40 percent. Especially if you consider 60 percent were picked in one single round while the other 40 percent come from 6 other rounds plus undrafted QBs.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by pelos21:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by GoldenGateGlory:

Yet Like a toddler walking a Great Dane, clinging to a lead is something we simply couldn't do last year.

Huh? What does that have to do with anything we're talking about lol

Lol ggg is a trip. So ny I get what you're saying man but what if we're 4-4, in the wild card hunt and 2 games out of first in our division? Should we still start CJ then if Hoyer is playing okay?

Lol 4-4...who we beating in the first 8 games with Hoyer? I could see the Rams but that's it. Let's be real here people, we were the worst team in football last year and while we made changes on the roster we didn't bring in a ton of pro-bowlers.

I'm saying WHAT IF ny. Also, you never know man. I'm a big believer in the term Any Given Sunday. I just looked at our first 8 games and it's not out of the realm of possibility that we can win 4 games. So I'll ask you again. WHAT IF we're 4-4, 5-5 or even 6-6? We should just say f**k it, throw in the towel and see what Beathard can do? f**k that lol. If we're in the hunt I would hope Shanahan would keep fighting until we're officially eliminated.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by GoldenGateGlory:

Yet Like a toddler walking a Great Dane, clinging to a lead is something we simply couldn't do last year.

Clinging to a lead? This ain't a HaRoman offense anymore...

Myth

Look at the point differentials from the HaRonan era.

We still don't have nails left from those three years. Anybody that watched our offense during that time knew it always seemed to come down to the wire...a key defensive stop or a FG. There was no such thing as a comfortable lead back then.

Any team in the top 5 for point differential is not squeaking by teams at the wire.