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Originally posted by NYniner85:Originally posted by Giedi:I share your sentiments exactly!
No one is saying don't get Kirk if you can...I've been at the top of the mountain screaming for Kirk BUT if he gets a deal done then what? The next step is the draft and I want the best chance for our staff at getting who we want period.
People undervaluing the QB position in here is f**king crazy...oh kyle will just take another mid rd QB prospect and turn him into Joe Montana lol.
Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by NYniner85:Originally posted by Giedi:I share your sentiments exactly!
No one is saying don't get Kirk if you can...I've been at the top of the mountain screaming for Kirk BUT if he gets a deal done then what? The next step is the draft and I want the best chance for our staff at getting who we want period.
People undervaluing the QB position in here is f**king crazy...oh kyle will just take another mid rd QB prospect and turn him into Joe Montana lol.
... yeah, with the caveat that Kyle's guy is projected to the first round. This year they were prime to get the #1 QB in the on the board in the first round and passed. Kyle doesn't care...while everyone projected Beathard as a 7th rounder, Kyle had him #1 on his board.
That said, I agree with your premise...IF Kyle's #1 QB happens to be projected to the first round, I'd much rather be in the same position as this year to take him vs. having to give away the house to move up to get him.
Originally posted by TheWooLick:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by TheWooLick:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by GoldenGateGlory:Yet Like a toddler walking a Great Dane, clinging to a lead is something we simply couldn't do last year.
Clinging to a lead? This ain't a HaRoman offense anymore...
Myth
Look at the point differentials from the HaRonan era.
We still don't have nails left from those three years. Anybody that watched our offense during that time knew it always seemed to come down to the wire...a key defensive stop or a FG. There was no such thing as a comfortable lead back then.
Any team in the top 5 for point differential is not squeaking by teams at the wire.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
I'm saying going 4-12 not 2-14FAs come for money above everything else, That's something that we have a lot of....also from what I've read players what to play in kyle's offense. I'm talking about looking competitive, not a complete s**t show like the past two yrs as well. FAs also like knowing the team isn't gonna get blown up in a yr or two and that's not gonna happen after one bad season here. This is gonna be a process, far from what happened in 2011.
I'm also not saying don't be serious about winning, I'm saying this season imo is sort of a throw away season, it's a first yr in learning a whole new system on offense and defense. Raiders had 3 seasons of 4-12 or 3-13 which in turn got them Mack/cooper/Carr and they still were bringing in vets. Play the young players and see who's who...I see one winnable game in the first 8 games.
What this is all based around (my perspective) is what kyle stated...."You never want to compete in one year at the expense of your future" and I agree.
I will be okay with doubling our win total and improving our ranks on offense/defense in yr one. People thinking we're gonna win 7+ games this upcoming yr need a reality check imo. Since when did hoyer become a "winner" lol? All the FAs we brought in only one was a true pro-bowler and he was a FB. It's gonna take time and I'm okay with that along with getting top end picks next yr to land a QB. If we get Kirk then sell that pick to the highest bidder and be set for the upcoming yrs (example titans).
It's cool if we have different perspectives on this.
Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by TheWooLick:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by GoldenGateGlory:Yet Like a toddler walking a Great Dane, clinging to a lead is something we simply couldn't do last year.
Clinging to a lead? This ain't a HaRoman offense anymore...
Myth
Look at the point differentials from the HaRonan era.
We still don't have nails left from those three years. Anybody that watched our offense during that time knew it always seemed to come down to the wire...a key defensive stop or a FG. There was no such thing as a comfortable lead back then.
Originally posted by NCommand:Yeah, nothing wrong with that.
As to the QB's, I don't think teams are dumb as they are dealt a delivered hand and that's the landscape they have to work with. Back in the day, the trend was on pro style offenses at the college level and getting the best of the best from that group translated better into the pro game and offenses run at the NFL level.
Now the emphasis is more on athletic running QB's who take every snap from shotgun, no huddle and one read and run with mild accuracy.
Can you imagine the scouting reports on Joe Montana and Phil Simms regarding their 40 times, 3 cones, bench and arm strength? LOL
I'm just saying teams are forced to massively project because of this movement or drastically change their offenses.
But Kyle won't change his whole offense to accommodate an RGIII of Kaepernick and those were two first and high second round picks.
Because of the landscape, Kyle's #1 QB just may be sitting there in the 2nd-4th rounds now.
Originally posted by pelos21:I'm saying WHAT IF ny. Also, you never know man. I'm a big believer in the term Any Given Sunday. I just looked at our first 8 games and it's not out of the realm of possibility that we can win 4 games. So I'll ask you again. WHAT IF we're 4-4, 5-5 or even 6-6? We should just say f**k it, throw in the towel and see what Beathard can do? f**k that lol. If we're in the hunt I would hope Shanahan would keep fighting until we're officially eliminated.
Originally posted by tjd808185:Hoyer got 7 wins in Clv last time he was with Shanny. That's not Mount Everest. If we start 1-7 maybe my mind will change but as of now I'm not looking at next April.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Giedi:
I share your sentiments exactly!
No one is saying don't get Kirk if you can...I've been at the top of the mountain screaming for Kirk BUT if he gets a deal done then what? The next step is the draft and I want the best chance for our staff at getting who we want period.
People undervaluing the QB position in here is f**king crazy...oh kyle will just take another mid rd QB prospect and turn him into Joe Montana lol.
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Originally posted by Giedi:Originally posted by NYniner85:Originally posted by Giedi:I share your sentiments exactly!
No one is saying don't get Kirk if you can...I've been at the top of the mountain screaming for Kirk BUT if he gets a deal done then what? The next step is the draft and I want the best chance for our staff at getting who we want period.
People undervaluing the QB position in here is f**king crazy...oh kyle will just take another mid rd QB prospect and turn him into Joe Montana lol.
No, I just think you are over-valuing the QB position. I mean where would Staubach would be without Bullet Hays, Bradshaw without Swann & Harris, Montana without Clark and Eric Wright who horsecollered Pearson to prevent the Cowboys from scoring on us after *the catch.* Tom without Edleman. Franchise QB's are surrounded by good people, that's my point. I am not saying Franchise QB's are not important. I'm just saying just get a good QB that can distribute the ball and not make stupid turnovers and move the ball against quality defenses. I'm from the point of view that Defense wins championships, so what has been done in the past that's been successful is get a good QB and surround him with good people, and more likely than not - you get a franchise QB. When I say good QB, I don't mean check down Alex. I mean a courageous QB that can throw a deep ball, the short ball, drill the out, and have great touch (which is important for the WCO). But even if you do get an Alex vs Peyton Manning, if you have a top of the line defense and give a guy like Alex a pair of 900+ yard receivers and a good thousand yard rusher you get the playoffs. Again, once in the playoffs, anything is possible. (and yes - I know Alex was a round 1 pick 1 player - so even round 1 pick 1 you may not get that Peyton kinda dude
Originally posted by Giedi:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Giedi:
I share your sentiments exactly!
No one is saying don't get Kirk if you can...I've been at the top of the mountain screaming for Kirk BUT if he gets a deal done then what? The next step is the draft and I want the best chance for our staff at getting who we want period.
People undervaluing the QB position in here is f**king crazy...oh kyle will just take another mid rd QB prospect and turn him into Joe Montana lol.
No, I just think you are over-valuing the QB position. I mean where would Staubach would be without Bullet Hays, Bradshaw without Swann & Harris, Montana without Clark and Eric Wright who horsecollered Pearson to prevent the Cowboys from scoring on us after *the catch.* Tom without Edleman. Franchise QB's are surrounded by good people, that's my point. I am not saying Franchise QB's are not important. I'm just saying just get a good QB that can distribute the ball and not make stupid turnovers and move the ball against quality defenses. I'm from the point of view that Defense wins championships, so what has been done in the past that's been successful is get a good QB and surround him with good people, and more likely than not - you get a franchise QB. When I say good QB, I don't mean check down Alex. I mean a courageous QB that can throw a deep ball, the short ball, drill the out, and have great touch (which is important for the WCO). But even if you do get an Alex vs Peyton Manning, if you have a top of the line defense and give a guy like Alex a pair of 900+ yard receivers and a good thousand yard rusher you get the playoffs. Again, once in the playoffs, anything is possible. (and yes - I know Alex was a round 1 pick 1 player - so even round 1 pick 1 you may not get that Peyton kinda dude
Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:
Idk if I get your point. 60 percent is way higher than 40 percent. Especially if you consider 60 percent were picked in one single round while the other 40 percent come from 6 other rounds plus undrafted QBs.
Originally posted by Joecool:
Defense doesn't win championships. A defense and run-game gets you guaranteed playoffs. Now include an efficient QB that has some balls and that is what wins championships.
A FQB can make the playoffs without a run-game and with a mediocre defense. But a mediocre defense and no run-game cannot make the playoffs without a FQB.
Originally posted by Joecool:Defense doesn't win championships. A defense and run-game gets you guaranteed playoffs. Now include an efficient QB that has some balls and that is what wins championships.
A FQB can make the playoffs without a run-game and with a mediocre defense. But a mediocre defense and no run-game cannot make the playoffs without a FQB.
Originally posted by Giedi:I think the point is that while it's important to have first round draft picks for the all important QB position. *But* - if you don't get a franchise QB in the first round, it's not going end your chances of getting that franchise QB in the later rounds. So if we win 10-6 and miss the playoffs and lose out on that 1st round 1st pick, you still have a good chance in the later rounds to get one. Remember, all those *40%* QB's not drafted in the first round are all available in the 2nd round too.
