49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by captveg:

Personally, I don't care if we start 1-7. It's how that 1-7 looks that will matter to me this year. Are there adjustments? Are assignments that were missed by players in Week 1 not being missed in Week 8? How's the system coming together, and how are the players adjusting to using that system?

Wins aren't all that important this season.

Yup I agree, for me it's not about wins it's about looking competitive. First yr with so many changes and learning a complex system on offense. People got to be patient.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
I will say if we start 1-7 maybe I'll see your point then. I don't see us being that bad. As of now 7-9 wins is not out of the question. We already have a top rushing attack with Shanny coming into the mix if we can just get to average passing we'll be fine there. Shanny got 7 wins out of Hoyer without a competent run game in Clv which for him is a rare to say the least. Defensively it's a bigger hurdle but we also did a lot to improve the front 7.

that's fair...I disagree that this is a 7 win team this yr. I honestly see 1 win in the first 8 games and honestly the only possible wins I see are a split with the Rams, the bears, and possibly the Jags. Not sure where you see 7 wins?

I think people are optimistic because in 2016 the 49ers were within one score during the 4th quarter in 12 games. And as you know that was with a historical bad defense. If our healthy defense helps wins 1/3 of those this year, with the 2 wins you possibly see, and we are at 6.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mojave45:

Doc, I don't know how close we are yet to getting back to where we need to be. But I want to mention the other part of your post about is it the QB or the great coach that matters... I have always wondered how good Montana would have been if he hadn't been groomed by Walsh. We know what a difference Walsh made in Steve Young's career. Yes a great coach needs a talented player to groom, but that player needs to be developed properly too. So I am not of the opinion that the QB Kyle and Lynch go after absolutely, positively has to be a top 5 draft pick. I just hope who ever it is they target next year is the correct pick long term. I don't care if they decide the guy Kyle wants is in the second round for example. Or if we have to trade up a little to get "The Guy".

This year is so important in building the team foundation, installing the new defense and offense, and preparing for a respectable season in 2018.I don't think we should tank for draft picks, but I am not going to complain if we play the rookies a lot either in preparation for 2018, and win 3-4 games as a result of it while improving how competitive we look on game day. We were historically bad last year, I don't expect miracles this year, but next year I want to see our future QB, and at least a glimpse of where we are going to be in the long run.

I don't want to tank either and have stated that. I do want to have a plan this time next yr at who's gonna be the franchise guy moving forward....does he have to be the #1 overall pick? No. BUT I want to give lynch and Co. the BEST overall odds at getting whomever they think is best for this team at QB. I will be pissed if we're rolling into 2018 with hoyer as the starter with no real plan (like the jets did this past yr).

NY, i am not as concise as you are, but i don't see anything we really disagree on. I MENTIONED our choices....

1.Hoyer, if he proves he can be the man

2. Barks if Hoyer gets injured or backslides.

3.CJ,whether 4 games, 6 games or perhaps more.

4. The first choice if it works out, would be 2018 FA , ie, Cousins

5. 2018 draft ...and we are in full agreement that the higher the draft pick we have, the better off we are. Barring that we can trade up some...for QBs in rd 1...it would be steep, a la a Wentz/Goff 6 pak.

Note, i did NOT say Hoyer as our only choice. If you took it that way, you misunderstood me. The five choices above are not necessarily in order, tho timewise, perhaps so.

Just reiterating, my one small difference with you is with the OC/HC who is a great playcaller, QB picker and developer, we may not need a Brady or Montana( which would be highly unlikely anyway), but almost as good would be the QB who is well rated in college ranks, and has the fundamentals kyle has noted. I guess i am saying he doesn't have to be the ONE best one, because that is no guarantee.. It has to be one kyle is comfortable wiht who has the good pedigree. One wasn't there this yr. Maybe he isn't there next yr either. Who knows how long it takes ? Hopefully one or especially more of the Qbs next yr qualify. IF not, then hope for Cousins. If not, then keep on improving the D, the O, and hope we get a shot at the Qb of the future....sometime. My thots are with the top notch HC/OC, we can succeed without getting the one best Qb in the draft next yr, if a guy fits the description above. Most of all it depends on kyle's, john's (and I bet Mike's) thots on the Qbs in 2018 after getting thru most of the collegiate season. The simple answer is Cousins...but that is also the most awkward and hardest to finesse.

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mojave45:

Doc, I don't know how close we are yet to getting back to where we need to be. But I want to mention the other part of your post about is it the QB or the great coach that matters... I have always wondered how good Montana would have been if he hadn't been groomed by Walsh. We know what a difference Walsh made in Steve Young's career. Yes a great coach needs a talented player to groom, but that player needs to be developed properly too. So I am not of the opinion that the QB Kyle and Lynch go after absolutely, positively has to be a top 5 draft pick. I just hope who ever it is they target next year is the correct pick long term. I don't care if they decide the guy Kyle wants is in the second round for example. Or if we have to trade up a little to get "The Guy".

This year is so important in building the team foundation, installing the new defense and offense, and preparing for a respectable season in 2018.I don't think we should tank for draft picks, but I am not going to complain if we play the rookies a lot either in preparation for 2018, and win 3-4 games as a result of it while improving how competitive we look on game day. We were historically bad last year, I don't expect miracles this year, but next year I want to see our future QB, and at least a glimpse of where we are going to be in the long run.

I don't want to tank either and have stated that. I do want to have a plan this time next yr at who's gonna be the franchise guy moving forward....does he have to be the #1 overall pick? No. BUT I want to give lynch and Co. the BEST overall odds at getting whomever they think is best for this team at QB. I will be pissed if we're rolling into 2018 with hoyer as the starter with no real plan (like the jets did this past yr).

Hi NY. Yeah I was just commenting on Docs thinking, wasn't actually thinking about your earlier discussion. I think we are close to the same line of thinking though. I don't want to see Hoyer as a long term plan. I want to see his successor playing in TC next year. It doesn't matter to me how we get that guy... But we need to have him. And I never thought you wanted to tank just for the sake of doing it.

Mojave, we don't disagree, and see response to NY above. My point is if we have, as you say a top 5 pick but not the BEST , the #1 pick, if he fits Kyle's fundamentals and has the pedigree( 3 yr starter, team leader, accuracy, etc) then fine. And the higher up the pick the better off we are. I was just mentioning that both Joe and Brady got downright lucky. They could have ended up with tomsul or some such. Then where would they have been? Unknown answer and always will be...BUT the point is, we don't need a Joe or Brady, we just need a guy with same things i noted above. I think we are all on the same page, and there is a big difference in tanking and playing all your young players. Question is when does one make that decision. Certainly not if we were to run off the first 3 games as Ws. I don't expect that , but no one can discount it either.

I guess I am saying that playing young guys is fine, but you better first be sure you don't have a 4 barrel carb with a 454 under the hood. I would think we would legitimately know that 4 or 5 games in.

The level of respect he's already getting from his players is amazing...when you have Pro Bowlers like Staley saying he wishes he'd had Coach much earlier in his career is testament to how he and his teammates feel about him. None of us know how much our team's improved...but there hasn't been this kind of excitement in some time. I believe our defense will be good...maybe very good. Really like the moves made and players acquired/drafted. The offense may struggle some at first, but the more comfortable the players get with his system, they should respond with some good football. I'm always anxious for a new season...but this year, I'm really excited. Go Niners and congrats to Coach Shanahan & John Lynch for restoring a sense of pride and optimism.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:

The level of respect he's already getting from his players is amazing...when you have Pro Bowlers like Staley saying he wishes he'd had Coach much earlier in his career is testament to how he and his teammates feel about him. None of us know how much our team's improved...but there hasn't been this kind of excitement in some time. I believe our defense will be good...maybe very good. Really like the moves made and players acquired/drafted. The offense may struggle some at first, but the more comfortable the players get with his system, they should respond with some good football. I'm always anxious for a new season...but this year, I'm really excited. Go Niners and congrats to Coach Shanahan & John Lynch for restoring a sense of pride and optimism.

Well done, Corva

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Yeah I'm all for Kirk or jimmy G and kyle could want them until he's blue in the face....doesn't mean he's gonna get either of them end of the day.

People in here wanted Bowles and chan Gailey was a pretty good offensive mind imo.

I'll keep quoting kyle..."you never want to compete in one yr at the expense of your future." That's what the Jets did competed in one yr at the expense of the future playing Fitz who knew Gailey's offense but everyone knew he was trash.

You want to provide the context of that quote because I highly doubt he's saying suck for luck and tank for picks. It could be saying slow and steady is a fine way to build so we're not going to run out and overpay every fa we see. Playing your inexperienced, unready rookie to sabotage him and intentionally lose games does not apply there.

As for the Jets they took the bridge route, the bridge overachieved year 1 but then grounded and now they'll see how their 2nd round pick fairs. In all likelihood they'll be picking top 5. Could be worse they could of went 1-15 year 1 and then took Goff the following year. 1st round picks have a 50% bust rate. To me you play it out and if the right guy is there you pull the trigger.

Goff wasn't very good his rookie year at Cal. He came back his second year and really improved.

In tge NFL he was thrown in his rookie year with Jeff Fisher, no weapons and a leaky o-line. Fisher had been through about 15 QB's as a HC. He blows.

It's too early to call Goff a bust. Seeing he's with the Rams I hope he does bust- we may know the answer to that by the end of this season although 1.5 seasons may be a tad early (for a pocket passer).

Some pocket passers take 3-4 years in the NFL before they really take off. If Goff plays like garbage up to the end of 2018 I think we can clearly call him a bust. (After two seasons in McVay's offense)

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

I'm probably going to hash this up but will give it a try, NY.

Since Mooch was unceremoniously dumped in 2001(or whatever yr it was) i assumed we would get another HC who came from an OC background, the idea being if you don't have your HC as an OC, then any great OC ends up as a HC elsewhere. Well, we didn't . At least if we had a HC during the last 16+ yrs, and he was an OC, then he wasn't a very good one. Chip is a prime example. Harbaw was supposed to be a hot shot at playcalling and a QB whisperer, and to this day, i think that was horse puckey.

Early 2017 we land a HC/OC, and arguably the best one out there. FINALLY. Now the question is does the QB matter that much, or does the HC/OC QB-Whisperer/playcaller matter equally? Kyle laid it out pretty succinctly. He wants a QB who has the fundamentals , pocket awareness, keeps eyes downfield, accurate, good leader, etc....heck, everyone knows the list by now. So my question is do we need the one best QB of a bunch of "can't miss QBs", just like this yr, when there were none... or do we need a guy , perhaps like CJ, who already knows and has the fundamentals, who we pair with the best QB-groomer/whisperer/playcaller....like Kyle...and put the two together and get the QB we need? I don't think we are getting "Tom Brady 2" next yr, because that would be an amazing piece of luck. And any of the 32 teams are just as likely to get the next Brady as we are. Besides, Brady was picked by sheer luck, not skill, or he would have gone as 1st pick in rd 1....and he went some 200+ picks later.

So my question is can we win with a super wunderkind OC/HC and a good fundamentals QB? And i mean win it all, and win repeatedly? Or do we have to have Montana, or Brady or Rodgers to win and then do it again? I ask because right now, NY, you seem to be putting everything on the picking the perfect Qb...when i wonder if the real goal should be best HC/OC /playcaller out there paired with a QB who has excellent fundamentals, but wasn't necessarily the top rated QB by the "experts" who pontificate during the draft?

Simply put, could it be that we have the OC/HC/ playcaller we absolutely had to have, and then matching him up with the best fundamentals QB we can find = road to winning the SB? And that means repeatedly. Maybe we already have him in CJ. Maybe he is in next yrs draft, altho not necessarily a top rated pick....but fundamentals wise, he is top flite.

Also i think most would agree that the one best guy for us at present is Cousins. But getting him is a shakey proposition, and to bet on Cousins being here next yr , and ONLY on that, is a bad bet. Danny Snyder will do anything to prevent that. He may cut off his nose to spite his face. So banking on Cousins is an entirely separate track, and if it happens, fantastic. Meantime, we have rebuilt the D with a realistic shot at having a top 5 front 7, doubled the RB starters, pretty well solidified the OL, changed out retread WRs for much better ones( tho no #1), and obviously exponentially gotten better at HC/OC...with a good shot at DC becoming a way better one than since Fangio left.

What that leaves us with is Hoyer and a shot at his fundamentals and knowledge of Kyle's WCO, and CJ, a developmental project with good fundamentals, next yrs draft and FA. Can we fashion a Qb with Kyle as head man without getting the consensus #1 QB pick in the draft? I hope so. I also think so. Would Joe have been as successufl without Coach Walsh? Would Brady been as successful without Bellichek? I don't know, but paired wiht someone like tomsul, chip, singletary, etc, i bet not. We may not even know their names had it not been for the coach they were paired with...by luck, mind you.

So whether it is Hoyer/Barks/CJ/ next yr qB in draft/ FA(cousins)....i think we have the most important part taken care of ...right now. And that is kyle. Now he just has to find out can Hoyer carry the load...or CJ...or next yr's draft pick...or FA? If we got a Dak Prescott next yr and had tomsul or chip as HC, we would fail.

Therefore the HC/OC is of equal importance IMO, to the QB wiht good fundamentals. You have to have both...and we got the HC/OC part right. Meantime John and Kyle have put a team together that has the talent , but not the experience. That is what this yr is for. Experience. Now kyle just needs to find the guy who can be our long term Qb, or FR QB if you will, but he may not necessarily be one of the consensus top qB picks.

Getting the highest consensus QB pick is not as important as both the above. This team needs to play together for a yr, and we need to find who is /or isn't the Qb we need. But i do not think we need a brady. We need a Bill Walsh like HC/OC who can fashion his Qb and pick a talented one, much like Walsh did. And kyle has an eye for picking QBs and also for grooming them. He has done so at 3 previous stops.

I think we are a lot closer than most think to getting where we need to be. We got the hard part...a great HC/OC. The rest falls in place , whether this yr or next. The icing on the cake is we have a genuine virgin GM who in one yr has proven to be a fantastic pick...and is a good judge of talent. We are close.

You make a lot of really, really,reeeeeally long posts.

I think you're a smart guy but most of us just can't commit that much time. Friendly request here, could you shorten them up so more of us can read/respond?

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

I think people are optimistic because in 2016 the 49ers were within one score during the 4th quarter in 12 games. And as you know that was with a historical bad defense. If our healthy defense helps wins 1/3 of those this year, with the 2 wins you possibly see, and we are at 6.

Oh stop

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

NY, i am not as concise as you are, but i don't see anything we really disagree on. I MENTIONED our choices....

1.Hoyer, if he proves he can be the man

2. Barks if Hoyer gets injured or backslides.

3.CJ,whether 4 games, 6 games or perhaps more.

4. The first choice if it works out, would be 2018 FA , ie, Cousins

5. 2018 draft ...and we are in full agreement that the higher the draft pick we have, the better off we are. Barring that we can trade up some...for QBs in rd 1...it would be steep, a la a Wentz/Goff 6 pak.

Note, i did NOT say Hoyer as our only choice. If you took it that way, you misunderstood me. The five choices above are not necessarily in order, tho timewise, perhaps so.

Just reiterating, my one small difference with you is with the OC/HC who is a great playcaller, QB picker and developer, we may not need a Brady or Montana( which would be highly unlikely anyway), but almost as good would be the QB who is well rated in college ranks, and has the fundamentals kyle has noted. I guess i am saying he doesn't have to be the ONE best one, because that is no guarantee.. It has to be one kyle is comfortable wiht who has the good pedigree. One wasn't there this yr. Maybe he isn't there next yr either. Who knows how long it takes ? Hopefully one or especially more of the Qbs next yr qualify. IF not, then hope for Cousins. If not, then keep on improving the D, the O, and hope we get a shot at the Qb of the future....sometime. My thots are with the top notch HC/OC, we can succeed without getting the one best Qb in the draft next yr, if a guy fits the description above. Most of all it depends on kyle's, john's (and I bet Mike's) thots on the Qbs in 2018 after getting thru most of the collegiate season. The simple answer is Cousins...but that is also the most awkward and hardest to finesse.

I got faith in kyle but only time he's been to the playoffs is with a first rd QB. I'm all in with Kirk but if he's not available I would rather lose three more games and have a chance at a top QB vs winning games.

That's all...for me it's not the end all be all if we go 4-12 I see the bigger picture.

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

You make a lot of really, really,reeeeeally long posts.

I think you're a smart guy but most of us just can't commit that much time. Friendly request here, could you shorten them up so more of us can read/respond?

LeP, you have no idea how hard i try to make things shorter. Drives me nuts, sometimes, i start out with "this is going to be no more than 1 paragraph"...and then goes downhill from there. I do make a lot of very short posts, but when something is really important, i get wound up. Overall, many posts are short like this, but in a couple threads, i just seem to see about 9 different sides of a 9er problem....and then i get sidetracked. However, that said, I will make a renewed effort to shorten everything. I just wish i could do so like most others do

I would rather see the team instill a new culture of winning, rather then play the "suck for (whomever ) " game. It's not something you can just turn on, like a switch.

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:
Goff wasn't very good his rookie year at Cal. He came back his second year and really improved.

In tge NFL he was thrown in his rookie year with Jeff Fisher, no weapons and a leaky o-line. Fisher had been through about 15 QB's as a HC. He blows.

It's too early to call Goff a bust. Seeing he's with the Rams I hope he does bust- we may know the answer to that by the end of this season although 1.5 seasons may be a tad early (for a pocket passer).

Some pocket passers take 3-4 years in the NFL before they really take off. If Goff plays like garbage up to the end of 2018 I think we can clearly call him a bust. (After two seasons in McVay's offense)

I take it you were on team Goff last April. It's OK no one is keeping score.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jeepzilla:

I think people are optimistic because in 2016 the 49ers were within one score during the 4th quarter in 12 games. And as you know that was with a historical bad defense. If our healthy defense helps wins 1/3 of those this year, with the 2 wins you possibly see, and we are at 6.

Oh stop

?

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Goff wasn't very good his rookie year at Cal. He came back his second year and really improved.

In tge NFL he was thrown in his rookie year with Jeff Fisher, no weapons and a leaky o-line. Fisher had been through about 15 QB's as a HC. He blows.

It's too early to call Goff a bust. Seeing he's with the Rams I hope he does bust- we may know the answer to that by the end of this season although 1.5 seasons may be a tad early (for a pocket passer).

Some pocket passers take 3-4 years in the NFL before they really take off. If Goff plays like garbage up to the end of 2018 I think we can clearly call him a bust. (After two seasons in McVay's offense)

I take it you were on team Goff last April. It's OK no one is keeping score.

Lol
Nice post!