49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I haven't heard a 9er coach talk about footwork since Mooch. Love this.

"Being around Kyle, the one thing that I kind of forgotten and quickly remembered is that he's very particular about our feet. Watching the difference with Matt Ryan his first year with Kyle and the second year, it was almost like night and day. So, I've tried to really take what Matt tried to do in his second year and tried to implement with some drills and things like that."

Well its that aspect of the WCO, timing and anticipation. The Harbaugh offense was not predicated on that. His offense was more predicated on the play action, deception, and pure power stuff. Nice thing about Shanahan is he incorporates all that stuff in and adds the zone run to it also. Pretty much an unbeatable system if he gets the right personnel in it.

...and calls the right plays + execution!

Well, I hope he's learned his lesson. When ahead in the Second Half, just call more *run* plays.

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:

I think many will be surprised at what this team is able to achieve this season.

Hope so brotha.

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:

I think many will be surprised at what this team is able to achieve this season.

I believe!!

Originally posted by Giedi:
His offense wasn't bad. It was a more vertical kind of WCO, the power run will work with a vertical passing game. That was the Air-Coryell system that Walsh borrowed from and incorporated. All Walsh did was turn it from vertical to horizontal. The play action pass is a staple to both systems, but the difference between the Walsh WCO and the Air Coryell/Al Davis(sid gilman) offense is the power run. Without the power run, the vertical offense will not work, and you need speed at the WR positions to make the Air Coryell work and a very good receiver TE to work the underneath routes. Lack of a good TE killed us against 4-3 under defenses we faced in Seadderall and other teams that have good corners and safeties. Stupid Baalke never really got the receivers and TE's that this vertical style of passing game needed. The WCO doesn't need that premier rusher for the ground game, it needs a good runner yes, but the RB's and FB's are more receivers than runners. You see Kyle's system make 1,000 yard rushers out of 4th+ rounder's, because they are also very good receivers, and that makes it different than the power run Harbaugh system. Tough to load up on the run in Kyle's system, when the RB's can fake a run and go out for a pass.

Guess it depends on how you define the WCO. Pass to set up the run? Nope. Horizontal, High percentage consistent pressure against pass protection? Nope. Using RB/FBs in the pass game? Nope.

In fairness to Harbaugh he did not have the best WRs or light footed OL to play the WCO. Nor did he have a WCO QB after settling on Kaepernick. But whose fault is that?

But the WCO was not power running to set up passing. Bubba Paris was the only real power OL during the Walsh years and he kept eating himself out of a job. I found Harbaugh's offense frustrating to watch and not just because he had limited players.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:
His offense wasn't bad. It was a more vertical kind of WCO, the power run will work with a vertical passing game. That was the Air-Coryell system that Walsh borrowed from and incorporated. All Walsh did was turn it from vertical to horizontal. The play action pass is a staple to both systems, but the difference between the Walsh WCO and the Air Coryell/Al Davis(sid gilman) offense is the power run. Without the power run, the vertical offense will not work, and you need speed at the WR positions to make the Air Coryell work and a very good receiver TE to work the underneath routes. Lack of a good TE killed us against 4-3 under defenses we faced in Seadderall and other teams that have good corners and safeties. Stupid Baalke never really got the receivers and TE's that this vertical style of passing game needed. The WCO doesn't need that premier rusher for the ground game, it needs a good runner yes, but the RB's and FB's are more receivers than runners. You see Kyle's system make 1,000 yard rushers out of 4th+ rounder's, because they are also very good receivers, and that makes it different than the power run Harbaugh system. Tough to load up on the run in Kyle's system, when the RB's can fake a run and go out for a pass.

Guess it depends on how you define the WCO. Pass to set up the run? Nope. Horizontal, High percentage consistent pressure against pass protection? Nope. Using RB/FBs in the pass game? Nope.

In fairness to Harbaugh he did not have the best WRs or light footed OL to play the WCO. Nor did he have a WCO QB after settling on Kaepernick. But whose fault is that?

But the WCO was not power running to set up passing. Bubba Paris was the only real power OL during the Walsh years and he kept eating himself out of a job. I found Harbaugh's offense frustrating to watch and not just because he had limited players.

Here is a nice article on Harbaugh and his passing philosophy - and it stems from Lindy Infante who was a protégé of Don.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/40699/reflections-on-harbaughs-coaching-roots

Walsh uses a lot of Don's passing concepts in the WCO. But yeah, they are very different philosophies as to how to attack a defense. So yes, Harbaugh's offense was not a WCO in that sense. His was a run heavy offense whereas Bill's offense was a pass first offense - and his run game was more of a quick trapping and sweeping ground game vs a power run game that Harbaugh liked. I would say, based on the articles on Kyle that I've read - Kyle's offense is much closer to Bill's offense than Harbaugh's offense was. I'm also betting that Kyle's offense won't be the same as his offense in Atlanta because I'm thinking he's going to add new concepts that he's been working on, and because he's now a HC - he can implement some of his experiments and see how it goes without getting fired for doing so.

Originally posted by gold49digger:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I haven't heard a 9er coach talk about footwork since Mooch. Love this.

"Being around Kyle, the one thing that I kind of forgotten and quickly remembered is that he's very particular about our feet. Watching the difference with Matt Ryan his first year with Kyle and the second year, it was almost like night and day. So, I've tried to really take what Matt tried to do in his second year and tried to implement with some drills and things like that."

Well its that aspect of the WCO, timing and anticipation. The Harbaugh offense was not predicated on that. His offense was more predicated on the play action, deception, and pure power stuff. Nice thing about Shanahan is he incorporates all that stuff in and adds the zone run to it also. Pretty much an unbeatable system if he gets the right personnel in it.

We all thought that Harbaugh was going to bring back the WCO. Turns out, he was just a power run guy. Kyle is the the guy to bring the niners back to its roots.

cant wait

Truth!!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:
His offense wasn't bad. It was a more vertical kind of WCO, the power run will work with a vertical passing game. That was the Air-Coryell system that Walsh borrowed from and incorporated. All Walsh did was turn it from vertical to horizontal. The play action pass is a staple to both systems, but the difference between the Walsh WCO and the Air Coryell/Al Davis(sid gilman) offense is the power run. Without the power run, the vertical offense will not work, and you need speed at the WR positions to make the Air Coryell work and a very good receiver TE to work the underneath routes. Lack of a good TE killed us against 4-3 under defenses we faced in Seadderall and other teams that have good corners and safeties. Stupid Baalke never really got the receivers and TE's that this vertical style of passing game needed. The WCO doesn't need that premier rusher for the ground game, it needs a good runner yes, but the RB's and FB's are more receivers than runners. You see Kyle's system make 1,000 yard rushers out of 4th+ rounder's, because they are also very good receivers, and that makes it different than the power run Harbaugh system. Tough to load up on the run in Kyle's system, when the RB's can fake a run and go out for a pass.

Guess it depends on how you define the WCO. Pass to set up the run? Nope. Horizontal, High percentage consistent pressure against pass protection? Nope. Using RB/FBs in the pass game? Nope.

In fairness to Harbaugh he did not have the best WRs or light footed OL to play the WCO. Nor did he have a WCO QB after settling on Kaepernick. But whose fault is that?

But the WCO was not power running to set up passing. Bubba Paris was the only real power OL during the Walsh years and he kept eating himself out of a job. I found Harbaugh's offense frustrating to watch and not just because he had limited players.

Same here.

A terrific listen courtesy of Hero.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2722745-simms-lefkoe-podcast-kyle-shanahan-talks-super-bowl-redskins-front-office

Originally posted by NCommand:
A terrific listen courtesy of Hero.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2722745-simms-lefkoe-podcast-kyle-shanahan-talks-super-bowl-redskins-front-office

It's interesting what he says on the audio. He says as an OC, he can't address what he wants to address and was always frustrated as an OC. Now that he is HC, it's a lot easier to address because he has control. I wonder if that's why he doesn't have an OC - and is taking those duties personally himself. Interesting insight there.

One of my first posts ever was about a good HC needing to be an OC. Almost or more than 10 yrs later, I feel the same thing. If you have a hotshot OC, he goes to HC elsewhere NFL the next yr. So HC have to be OCs by nature...if they are going to stay around. Whatever else kyle needs as an OC as the HC, is fine by me. I know he is talented, he calls great games and his playcalling is non pareil. So if blows up his shirt, fine by me. If you get a good DC as HC, then you never will have a great OC nor a great O...unless for a brief yr like Nervous Norvus Turner who came here but was looking for that HC slot every moment while here. Well he finally got one again, but flamed out. He was a good OC...nothing more.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
One of my first posts ever was about a good HC needing to be an OC. Almost or more than 10 yrs later, I feel the same thing. If you have a hotshot OC, he goes to HC elsewhere NFL the next yr. So HC have to be OCs by nature...if they are going to stay around. Whatever else kyle needs as an OC as the HC, is fine by me. I know he is talented, he calls great games and his playcalling is non pareil. So if blows up his shirt, fine by me. If you get a good DC as HC, then you never will have a great OC nor a great O...unless for a brief yr like Nervous Norvus Turner who came here but was looking for that HC slot every moment while here. Well he finally got one again, but flamed out. He was a good OC...nothing more.

Agree. The offensive side of the ball has gotten so complicated because of the evolution of the game and the rules. I don't think you can put the genie in the bottle back again either. Gone are the *run to daylight* days and *3 yards and a cloud of dust.* Now it's air raid, west coast, shot gun, no huddle, run and shoot, read option etc.. The offensive side of the ball really has developed into a smorgasbord of offensive styles of play that is as varied as the weather in each city. Head coaches have to be good on the defensive and offensive side of the ball, and an owner wanting to win shouldn't hire one sided coaches like a mike Nolan. Bill Belicheat came from the defensive side, so did Walsh, so really what you are saying is guys that don't know offense in this day and age of modern NFL offenses are *bad head coaches.* I can agree with that.

49ers are one of 3 teams not to crack the top 10 in offense since 2005. Closest we came was 11th under Jim H. That sh-t needs to change. Hopefully Kyle will be the one.

Originally posted by Stud:

49ers are one of 3 teams not to crack the top 10 in offense since 2005. Closest we came was 11th under Jim H. That sh-t needs to change. Hopefully Kyle will be the one.

May not happen year 1, but expecting a huge jump in year 2!

I hope Kyle understands now how *defense wins championships.*

http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/107143-ryan-time-change-shanahans-play-calls-super-bowl/

Originally posted by Giedi:

I hope Kyle understands now how *defense wins championships.*

http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/107143-ryan-time-change-shanahans-play-calls-super-bowl/

In the audio above too, Kyle noted on the 2nd and 10 he didn't expect taking a sack so yes, he would have liked to run it there. Between the RB1 going down with injury and only averaging .5 yards the second half, the RB1 going down to injury, the RB2 blowing his pass protection assignment, Ryan taking a sack and after getting right back to FG range afterwards but negated then by the holding penalty, it was a perfect storm of aggressive play calling and piss poor execution of shooting yourself in the foot.

No doubt, Kyle learned something from that.

PS: Another good point is the verbiage and the length of time getting play calls in.