49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by Joecool:

I'm trying to keep my mindset in more of a realistic perception toward our offense mainly because there will be another team every Sunday that is trying to stop what we are doing and we won't be scoring 30+ points every week.

Just think,
Harbaugh was supposed to be the QB whisperer and that aspect of his resume was a disappointment. Harbaugh was successful because he is great at the KISS method and motivation. Now include some great talent we had on Defense and Jim was always competitive...until he was not.
Tomsula came in and we were all thinking positive in that he was a players' coach and would improve on Harbaugh's stubbornness. That changed the instant players began dropping out. The season was also a wake up call in that we need a smarter coach.
In comes Kelly, the genius breath of fresh air with good explanations during media interviews and a little more transparency that the 49ers went away from at the same time sort of alienating their fanbase. Hopes were high because 49ers fans were desperate to, once again, be the team that is the trailblazer and not the copycat. Unfortunately, lack of offensive talent and Kelly's philosophy was a slap in the face that this can't work in the NFL. Our defense suffered badly.

And now we have Shanahan. We saw what he did in ATL and how his players have career years everywhere he goes. He is bringing back a more simple defense and he is fortunate enough to time it right with us finally reloading the talent. Defense should be much better but do note that our offense lacks a s**tload of talent in the one aspect that is required to score points: passing game. Our #1 WR is a #2 on any other team. Our QB appears to have "gotten it" but way more than questions than answers. Kyle's offense is very complicated.

Think we will do better than the last two years but I think it may take a while to be as efficient on offense as we were with Harbaugh. Just know that we more likely will be scoring 17-23 points than we will be 24-30. Why? Because it is hard to do in the NFL. I will add that Kyle is the first coach we have had in a long time that has a proven successful system. That's the biggest fact to take.

Good one JC. Aside from our own history coming back home to us, you nailed it here.

Kyle shares the same love of X's and O's, like the Godfather himself. And like him, loves to evolve.

I have no idea what we'll look like but I do know with Hoyer, the offensive playbook is wide open to Kyle now...it will be on the rest of the 10 others to keep pace.

Sink or swim, Kyle is going for it, just like the Godfather himself.

Originally posted by Niners816:

I've been following him since 2008-09 with Houston. Of course being shanny's kid was the main reason for this but his offense was just like his dads (and kubiak). I was not for the Harbaugh departure in any way but the only thing that was gonna at least calm me was if we would've got mike with Kyle attached. Of course that didn't happen, but I really can't convey how happy I am that we landed him. It just feels right to have a variant of a true WCO home. Nothing is guaranteed but I really do think Kyle is gonna be really successful.

It's almost like the ship is being turned on a dime.

And the dedicated and intelligent fans on here are finally getting something to smile about again! Thanks for the educational on these pages. Just brilliant.

What's not to like!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
One of Harbaugh's best skills is/was to draw good assistants to him. Bringing Fangio and Donatel with him from Stanford really set up a great run. They understood the strengths of the D (front seven) and filled in with adequate role players in the backfield. The offense? Mediocre most of the time.

If Lynch turns this team around in a year or two then I will evaluate Baalke down several notches. I thought there was a disconnect between what Baalke wanted and what Harbaugh needed.

I totally agree. Baalke tried to build a WCO style offense, and Harbaugh wanted a more vertical Al Davis/Air Coryell offense.

The big advantage Kyle has over Harbaugh is that Kyle has pretty much total control of the club. (yes I know Lynch is the GM etc...) But in all practical purposes, that's what tanked the Harbaugh regime. Harbaugh wanted certain guys (example Maricec) and Baalke vetoed him and that led to some finger pointing and the relationship just continued to get worse and worse after that. John Lynch's job really is to figure out how whatever Kyle wants - fits in the salary cap or the available draft capital that they have. John is not there to ever say no to Kyle. I think Kyle really knows that championships are won with defense and that's why Kyle led a defensive draft this year and I think was instrumental in getting John Lynch hired. That's also why I think John and Kyle fit together perfectly. John is a hall of fame level player, he has a very good mind, but more importantly he played defensive back and knows the defense from a player perspective and that's a great fit to Kyle's offensive background. The two of them together reminds me a bit of Tom Landry and Gil Brandt if they can keep their relationship going through the tough times, and they will be coming fast this year.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I totally agree. Baalke tried to build a WCO style offense, and Harbaugh wanted a more vertical Al Davis/Air Coryell offense.

The big advantage Kyle has over Harbaugh is that Kyle has pretty much total control of the club. (yes I know Lynch is the GM etc...) But in all practical purposes, that's what tanked the Harbaugh regime. Harbaugh wanted certain guys (example Maricec) and Baalke vetoed him and that led to some finger pointing and the relationship just continued to get worse and worse after that. John Lynch's job really is to figure out how whatever Kyle wants - fits in the salary cap or the available draft capital that they have. John is not there to ever say no to Kyle. I think Kyle really knows that championships are won with defense and that's why Kyle led a defensive draft this year and I think was instrumental in getting John Lynch hired. That's also why I think John and Kyle fit together perfectly. John is a hall of fame level player, he has a very good mind, but more importantly he played defensive back and knows the defense from a player perspective and that's a great fit to Kyle's offensive background. The two of them together reminds me a bit of Tom Landry and Gil Brandt if they can keep their relationship going through the tough times, and they will be coming fast this year.

When did Harbaugh want that?

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I totally agree. Baalke tried to build a WCO style offense, and Harbaugh wanted a more vertical Al Davis/Air Coryell offense.

The big advantage Kyle has over Harbaugh is that Kyle has pretty much total control of the club. (yes I know Lynch is the GM etc...) But in all practical purposes, that's what tanked the Harbaugh regime. Harbaugh wanted certain guys (example Maricec) and Baalke vetoed him and that led to some finger pointing and the relationship just continued to get worse and worse after that. John Lynch's job really is to figure out how whatever Kyle wants - fits in the salary cap or the available draft capital that they have. John is not there to ever say no to Kyle. I think Kyle really knows that championships are won with defense and that's why Kyle led a defensive draft this year and I think was instrumental in getting John Lynch hired. That's also why I think John and Kyle fit together perfectly. John is a hall of fame level player, he has a very good mind, but more importantly he played defensive back and knows the defense from a player perspective and that's a great fit to Kyle's offensive background. The two of them together reminds me a bit of Tom Landry and Gil Brandt if they can keep their relationship going through the tough times, and they will be coming fast this year.

When did Harbaugh want that?

By the type of offense he was running. It was man blocking, run between the tackles heavy and had the play action as its foundation.

And I thought Baalke was all about bigger players, which is also more of a Bill Parcells method. Thought he always sucked Parcell's dick.

Originally posted by Joecool:
By the type of offense he was running. It was man blocking, run between the tackles heavy and had the play action as its foundation.

And I thought Baalke was all about bigger players, which is also more of a Bill Parcells method. Thought he always sucked Parcell's dick.

He was never running an Al Davis offense.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I totally agree. Baalke tried to build a WCO style offense, and Harbaugh wanted a more vertical Al Davis/Air Coryell offense.

The big advantage Kyle has over Harbaugh is that Kyle has pretty much total control of the club. (yes I know Lynch is the GM etc...) But in all practical purposes, that's what tanked the Harbaugh regime. Harbaugh wanted certain guys (example Maricec) and Baalke vetoed him and that led to some finger pointing and the relationship just continued to get worse and worse after that. John Lynch's job really is to figure out how whatever Kyle wants - fits in the salary cap or the available draft capital that they have. John is not there to ever say no to Kyle. I think Kyle really knows that championships are won with defense and that's why Kyle led a defensive draft this year and I think was instrumental in getting John Lynch hired. That's also why I think John and Kyle fit together perfectly. John is a hall of fame level player, he has a very good mind, but more importantly he played defensive back and knows the defense from a player perspective and that's a great fit to Kyle's offensive background. The two of them together reminds me a bit of Tom Landry and Gil Brandt if they can keep their relationship going through the tough times, and they will be coming fast this year.

When did Harbaugh want that?

By the type of offense he was running. It was man blocking, run between the tackles heavy and had the play action as its foundation.

And I thought Baalke was all about bigger players, which is also more of a Bill Parcells method. Thought he always sucked Parcell's dick.

the Bo Shembechler run offense I think fits perfectly with the AirCoryell/Sid Gillman concepts that Al Davis was familiar with when he was still alive and paying Harbaugh as a QB coach for the Oakland Raiders. Just replace Frank Gore with Marv Hubbard and you have the Al Davis/Harbaugh offense.

Hubbard was famous for his aggressive style of offensive football, and was a fan favorite of the John Madden led Oakland Raiders in the early to mid 1970s. He was quick for his size, and was powerfully built. "Marv Hubbard was one of the toughest players we ever had," Madden told the Contra Costa Times. "There are people that will have contact and people that won't have contact, but only a few that will have it and really enjoy it. Marv was one of those guys who truly enjoyed the collision. He would look for it."[5]

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Giedi:

I totally agree. Baalke tried to build a WCO style offense, and Harbaugh wanted a more vertical Al Davis/Air Coryell offense.

The big advantage Kyle has over Harbaugh is that Kyle has pretty much total control of the club. (yes I know Lynch is the GM etc...) But in all practical purposes, that's what tanked the Harbaugh regime. Harbaugh wanted certain guys (example Maricec) and Baalke vetoed him and that led to some finger pointing and the relationship just continued to get worse and worse after that. John Lynch's job really is to figure out how whatever Kyle wants - fits in the salary cap or the available draft capital that they have. John is not there to ever say no to Kyle. I think Kyle really knows that championships are won with defense and that's why Kyle led a defensive draft this year and I think was instrumental in getting John Lynch hiredo. That's also why I think John and Kyle fit together perfectly. John is a hall of fame level player, he has a very good mind, but more importantly he played defensive back and knows the defense from a player perspective and that's a great fit to Kyle's offensive background. The two of them together reminds me a bit of Tom Landry and Gil Brandt if they can keep their relationship going through the tough times, and they will be coming fast this year.

When did Harbaugh want that?

By the type of offense he was running. It was man blocking, run between the tackles heavy and had the play action as its foundation.

And I thought Baalke was all about bigger players, which is also more of a Bill Parcells method. Thought he always sucked Parcell's dick.

the Bo Shembechler run offense I think fits perfectly with the AirCoryell/Sid Gillman concepts that Al Davis was familiar with when he was still alive and paying Harbaugh as a QB coach for the Oakland Raiders. Just replace Frank Gore with Marv Hubbard and you have the Al Davis/Harbaugh offense.

Hubbard was famous for his aggressive style of offensive football, and was a fan favorite of the John Madden led Oakland Raiders in the early to mid 1970s. He was quick for his size, and was powerfully built. "Marv Hubbard was one of the toughest players we ever had," Madden told the Contra Costa Times. "There are people that will have contact and people that won't have contact, but only a few that will have it and really enjoy it. Marv was one of those guys who truly enjoyed the collision. He would look for it."[5]

Personally I have always believed that Harbaugh did indeed run a WCO. It used WCO verbiage and the passing game was comprised of tried and true passing concepts. WCO has become such a nebulous term and Harbs offense was his idea of a WCO was.

When I think of a Coryell scheme it's all about the digit-system and gash style passing. During Harbs tenure, the only time we really exhibited this style of passing was during the 10 games when Kap took over in '12.

Harbs was QB coach with trestman as the OC at Oakland in 02-03. I think this was his main foundation of WCO passing. I think his idea was to have this type of passing attack with a great ground game. IMO, his perfect offense was his 2010 Stanford flavor.

Can't wait for him to deliver wins as really like this guy.

Originally posted by Niners816:
Personally I have always believed that Harbaugh did indeed run a WCO. It used WCO verbiage and the passing game was comprised of tried and true passing concepts. WCO has become such a nebulous term and Harbs offense was his idea of a WCO was.

When I think of a Coryell scheme it's all about the digit-system and gash style passing. During Harbs tenure, the only time we really exhibited this style of passing was during the 10 games when Kap took over in '12.

Bills original concepts have evolved into many different variations. Walsh used a lot of the air Coryell concepts in the WCO - just turned it from a vertical offense to a more horizontal offense. The long ball air Coryell offense fits better with Harbuagh's personality and the bo shembechler power run concepts. Watching Harbaugh's run offense almost reminds me of Chuck Muncie, but what was missing was the passing talent that Don had.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Niners816:
Personally I have always believed that Harbaugh did indeed run a WCO. It used WCO verbiage and the passing game was comprised of tried and true passing concepts. WCO has become such a nebulous term and Harbs offense was his idea of a WCO was.

When I think of a Coryell scheme it's all about the digit-system and gash style passing. During Harbs tenure, the only time we really exhibited this style of passing was during the 10 games when Kap took over in '12.

Bills original concepts have evolved into many different variations. Walsh used a lot of the air Coryell concepts in the WCO - just turned it from a vertical offense to a more horizontal offense. The long ball air Coryell offense fits better with Harbuagh's personality and the bo shembechler power run concepts. Watching Harbaugh's run offense almost reminds me of Chuck Muncie, but what was missing was the passing talent that Don had.

There are so many aspects to the WCO that it's hard to pin it down. Saying it's horizontal, as many have, isn't totally accurate, nor is it true that short passes took the place of running. Both of these misconceptions have been uttered by coaches who were not fond of Walsh or his system.

What Harbaugh lacked was the ability to call a game like Walsh, mixing up plays and setting up the D. Many blamed the QBs but I believe it was playcalling more than QBing to blame for the problems they had...but still, they reached the SB so...there is that.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Bills original concepts have evolved into many different variations. Walsh used a lot of the air Coryell concepts in the WCO - just turned it from a vertical offense to a more horizontal offense. The long ball air Coryell offense fits better with Harbuagh's personality and the bo shembechler power run concepts. Watching Harbaugh's run offense almost reminds me of Chuck Muncie, but what was missing was the passing talent that Don had.

Virgil Carter's rag arm basically created the WCO as we think about it today. Smartly Walsh knew the straight vertical game wasn't gonna be a viable option. It was at that point he went full on with the dink and dunk pass to set up the run offense. He knew that the horizontal had to be established to get vertical shots.

In my mind, the whole key to Walsh's scheme is the triangle stretch. A great majority of his main concepts are based in the zone breaking triangles.

I guess the great football mystery is does Walsh's offense become what it became if Cook doesn't get hurt in Cincinnati in '70-'71. My gut says his offense would have been much more vertical/Gillman style then the horizontal scheme we all know and love.

I can't think of a better coach than Kyle to bring back the WCO, in its next generation form. He seems like a total football geek since his childhood days.

I get a sense, underneath that boyish appearance belies a very strict and serious disciplinarian of football. Not gonna give any BS, and certainly not going to take any. Reminded me so much of the younger Mike Shanahan.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Bills original concepts have evolved into many different variations. Walsh used a lot of the air Coryell concepts in the WCO - just turned it from a vertical offense to a more horizontal offense. The long ball air Coryell offense fits better with Harbuagh's personality and the bo shembechler power run concepts. Watching Harbaugh's run offense almost reminds me of Chuck Muncie, but what was missing was the passing talent that Don had.

Virgil Carter's rag arm basically created the WCO as we think about it today. Smartly Walsh knew the straight vertical game wasn't gonna be a viable option. It was at that point he went full on with the dink and dunk pass to set up the run offense. He knew that the horizontal had to be established to get vertical shots.

In my mind, the whole key to Walsh's scheme is the triangle stretch. A great majority of his main concepts are based in the zone breaking triangles.

I guess the great football mystery is does Walsh's offense become what it became if Cook doesn't get hurt in Cincinnati in '70-'71. My gut says his offense would have been much more vertical/Gillman style then the horizontal scheme we all know and love.

Maybe Walsh learned a life lesson with that situation. Better design an offense for the guys with an average arm, because guys with a great arm are rare.