49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Sounds like Kyle wants to give his father some offensive credit by distancing himself from the media clumping him into the WCO like every other guy that passed through SF.

Mike and Kubiak were in SF for 3 years. If they ran an offense that wasn't even close to the WCO, I'm sure Eddie D would kick them out of town. I'm sure that veteran team under Young wouldn't stand for that either.

'We brought you in to help win a SB, not learn another offense Mike'

I lived through those good years. I could have sworn they were running the WCO, not a single complaint of anyone on the team of the offense being some how different, 20+ years later I'm told they ran something different. It's a masterful job of Mike Shanahan slipping that veil over everyone's eyes at the time

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Sounds like Kyle wants to give his father some offensive credit by distancing himself from the media clumping him into the WCO like every other guy that passed through SF.

Mike and Kubiak were in SF for 3 years. If they ran an offense that wasn't even close to the WCO, I'm sure Eddie D would kick them out of town. I'm sure that veteran team under Young wouldn't stand for that either.

'We brought you in to help win a SB, not learn another offense Mike'

I lived through those good years. I could have sworn they were running the WCO, not a singlen complaint of anyone on the team of the offense being some how different, 20+ years later I'm told they ran something different. It's a masterful job of Mike Shanahan slipping that veil over everyone's eyes at the time

The Dwight Clark quote is silly. In the 3 years with Shanny they led the league in points 3 years, led the league in yards 2 years and the only time they didn't lead in yards they were second.....the offense in the dynasty years was never better then those 3 years. They didn't change the offense.

I've seen the passing plays in both the 1994 Niners playbook and the 2004 Broncos playbook. They are damn near identical. It comes down to ZBS vs Gap scheme. Mike basically added that to the Niners passing offense when he went to Denver.

Originally posted by thl408:

Well if Kyle says it's not the WCO, then it's not the WCO. I had it all wrong, but when you think about it, what are the common traits of the WCO?
- ball control passing
- timing of routes to QB dropback; QB footwork synced with progressions
- triangle stretches in route combinations
- WCO verbiage in playbook
- getting playmakers in space, on the move, for yards after catch

Kyle's offense checks many of these boxes, some more definitively than others, but if he says it's not, then it's not. Pretty sure he knows the offense he's running.

It basically comes down that no one runs Walsh's offense anymore exactly like how he ran it. This has been true since Walsh left the NFL. Holmgren was the closest to Walsh in terms style. Despite the article presented above no one is gonna convince that Mike Shanahan was running anything other than a WCO when he was our OC. I watched those games and have seen the available playbooks that are online. They were running the same plays they had been since the 80s. The differences lies in some of the personnel groupings and formations. Also Shanny was more aggressive imo.

Now when he got the Denver gig, Mike wanted to change the running game a bit and installed Alex Gibbs ZBS. Like any good coach he tailored his offense to his QB. Elway had a stronger arm than Young and thats why his Denver flavor was a little more vertical than what he ran in SF. Having seen the 2004 bronco playbook, the plays are very similar to the 1994 Niners. Even the verbiage and personnel group names are the same.

To me, there are tons of different flavors of the WCO. None were like the original.

It's a f**king Grant Cohn article

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:

As long as Kyle racks up the points and makes opposing defenses look silly, he can call it whatever he wants.

wurd.

here's mike Shanahan calling almost 600 yards of "not" WCO

"After the Super Bowl, Mike Shanahan left the 49ers and became the head coach of the Broncos. When he left the 49ers, the late Dwight Clark told my dad, "Nothing against Mike, but he didn't do what we do. We need to get back to our roots."

Clark was the 49ers' vice president/director of football operations in 1995. He and the front office hired Marc Trestman to replace Shanahan, because Trestman wanted to learn and run the classic West Coast Offense. He even worked with Walsh in 1996 when Walsh was a consultant for the team."

And by dad he means Lowell cohn....I mean yuck, who wants to be scoring 49 points in a SB win or scoring 630+ points in the 19 games played in 1994. Do we know how the whole Trestman back to our "roots" worked out. "He Gone...."

Also think Bill Walsh was brought back as a consultant In 1996 because Trestman really wasn't recapturing the "roots" of the WCO.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Walsh ran a lot of 2 RB, TE formation. A variety of run and passing plays came out of that formation. What most people know commonly now as 21 ppersonnel. Kyle running most plays out of the same thing, and has added more, including but not limited to shot gun, which Walsh didn't like. The rules are different back in the 80's. Walsh had to worry about qb protect more than today's NFL.

Read any of Bill Walsh's books.

Bill Wash

USED THE

SHOTGUN.

Bill Walsh stopped running Shotgun because Montana was not comfortable with it.

In fact he retuned to the shotgun formation for part of his tenure at Stanford. He particularly like how trap running plays worked with the miss direction.

Some of the early concepts of The Bills k gun offense and the way they used the TE came from the stuff Walsh was doing with the Chargers and Stanford (OUT OF THE SHOTGUN).

If you read Walsh's book about his return to Stanford....he even goes on to predict the rise of the spread offense, and how it deviates from his rythm passing attack.

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Read any of Bill Walsh's books.

Bill Wash

USED THE

SHOTGUN.

Bill Walsh stopped running Shotgun because Montana was not comfortable with it.

In fact he retuned to the shotgun formation for part of his tenure at Stanford. He particularly like how trap running plays worked with the miss direction.

Some of the early concepts of The Bills k gun offense and the way they used the TE came from the stuff Walsh was doing with the Chargers and Stanford (OUT OF THE SHOTGUN).

If you read Walsh's book about his return to Stanford....he even goes on to predict the rise of the spread offense, and how it deviates from his rythm passing attack.

I've posted this before. 1981 vs the bears. The shotgun was in all of Bill Walsh's Niners playbooks.

Originally posted by thl408:
Well if Kyle says it's not the WCO, then it's not the WCO. I had it all wrong, but when you think about it, what are the common traits of the WCO?
- ball control passing
- timing of routes to QB dropback; QB footwork synced with progressions
- triangle stretches in route combinations
- WCO verbiage in playbook
- getting playmakers in space, on the move, for yards after catch

Kyle's offense checks many of these boxes, some more definitively than others, but if he says it's not, then it's not. Pretty sure he knows the offense he's running.

What BW did, IMO, to develop the WCO passing game was to identify coverage and design combos to isolate 1 defender, the progression was based on this one defender. The routes and timing of the passing game, based on 1.6s, 2,2s, and 2,8s timing from the QBs drop/footwork and receiver routes was taken from the Gilman school. The passing game was designed to open up the running game, pass to run. Various classic runs, nothing earth shattering. To me, this is how I summarize the WCO. btw, there is no triangle/oblique stretches, they are just a combination of classic horizontal and vertical concepts.

Kyle's offense is nothing like this, in fact, it is the complete opposite.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by thl408:
Well if Kyle says it's not the WCO, then it's not the WCO. I had it all wrong, but when you think about it, what are the common traits of the WCO?
- ball control passing
- timing of routes to QB dropback; QB footwork synced with progressions
- triangle stretches in route combinations
- WCO verbiage in playbook
- getting playmakers in space, on the move, for yards after catch

Kyle's offense checks many of these boxes, some more definitively than others, but if he says it's not, then it's not. Pretty sure he knows the offense he's running.

What BW did, IMO, to develop the WCO passing game was to identify coverage and design combos to isolate 1 defender, the progression was based on this one defender. The routes and timing of the passing game, based on 1.6s, 2,2s, and 2,8s timing from the QBs drop/footwork and receiver routes was taken from the Gilman school. The passing game was designed to open up the running game, pass to run. Various classic runs, nothing earth shattering. To me, this is how I summarize the WCO. btw, there is no triangle/oblique stretches, they are just a combination of classic horizontal and vertical concepts.

Kyle's offense is nothing like this, in fact, it is the complete opposite.

The triangle he is talking about is the same triangle that Bill Walsh talked about and this is what we are talking about when we say. It was Bill's talking point. This is from one of Bill's papers explaining his offense.

there is no offense ran today that does not have some semblance of the WCO in it.

I was bless enough to attend Al Borges passing camp when he was with Auburn. The complexity of the WCO is pretty awesome.

One thing no one in here is talking about is RAC. Damn near the entire WCO is designed to shield off pursuit. Most of the routs are designed to turn your skill position players into down field blockers to increase Run after the Catch.

Originally posted by Dshearn:
there is no offense ran today that does not have some semblance of the WCO in it.

I was bless enough to attend Al Borges passing camp when he was with Auburn. The complexity of the WCO is pretty awesome.

One thing no one in here is talking about is RAC. Damn near the entire WCO is designed to shield off pursuit. Most of the routs are designed to turn your skill position players into down field blockers to increase Run after the Catch.

Excellent point. Beautiful.

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Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
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