49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by Jcool:

According to my homie @SharpFootball, NFL offenses are using 11 personnel (3 WR, 1 RB, 1 TE) 64% of the time.

The Patriots use it 53% of the time, 2nd lowest rate in the NFL.

Kyle Shanahan uses it just 39% of the time 🤯 All hail our Offensive King pic.twitter.com/iWNV5plyyP

— Adam Lefkoe (@AdamLefkoe) October 1, 2019

Current Personnel grouping splits(sharpfootball)

11 pers 39%
21 pers 36%
22 pers 16%
12 pers 8%

The 21 pers number is number 1 in the league and the league average is 9%

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by thl408:
Well if Kyle says it's not the WCO, then it's not the WCO. I had it all wrong, but when you think about it, what are the common traits of the WCO?
- ball control passing
- timing of routes to QB dropback; QB footwork synced with progressions
- triangle stretches in route combinations
- WCO verbiage in playbook
- getting playmakers in space, on the move, for yards after catch

Kyle's offense checks many of these boxes, some more definitively than others, but if he says it's not, then it's not. Pretty sure he knows the offense he's running.

What BW did, IMO, to develop the WCO passing game was to identify coverage and design combos to isolate 1 defender, the progression was based on this one defender. The routes and timing of the passing game, based on 1.6s, 2,2s, and 2,8s timing from the QBs drop/footwork and receiver routes was taken from the Gilman school. The passing game was designed to open up the running game, pass to run. Various classic runs, nothing earth shattering. To me, this is how I summarize the WCO. btw, there is no triangle/oblique stretches, they are just a combination of classic horizontal and vertical concepts.

Kyle's offense is nothing like this, in fact, it is the complete opposite.

The triangle he is talking about is the same triangle that Bill Walsh talked about and this is what we are talking about when we say. It was Bill's talking point. This is from one of Bill's papers explaining his offense.

It was nothing new, BW just put another label on it... I have seen a book from the early 60s that has that exact combo in it but a different name... BW has his foundation in Sid Gilman who is the father of the modern passing game.

Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
👀

https://www.facebook.com/104445666320476/posts/2481758685255817/?substory_index=0

Please God. Not Patriots vs. Cowboys.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by Jcool:

According to my homie @SharpFootball, NFL offenses are using 11 personnel (3 WR, 1 RB, 1 TE) 64% of the time.

The Patriots use it 53% of the time, 2nd lowest rate in the NFL.

Kyle Shanahan uses it just 39% of the time 🤯 All hail our Offensive King pic.twitter.com/iWNV5plyyP

— Adam Lefkoe (@AdamLefkoe) October 1, 2019

Current Personnel grouping splits(sharpfootball)

11 pers 39%
21 pers 36%
22 pers 16%
12 pers 8%

The 21 pers number is number 1 in the league and the league average is 9%

Personnel groupings are a pointless statistic. Football is all about matchups, most teams struggle to pass from 21 so tip their hat that they are running.

We're so effective out of it because Juice and Kittle are better than their opposite numbers in both the passing and running game, and wait until Coleman gets in and runs some routes.

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

It was nothing new, BW just put another label on it... I have seen a book from the early 60s that has that exact combo in it but a different name... BW has his foundation in Sid Gilman who is the father of the modern passing game.

Never said it was new and we all know that Walsh didn't invent football.

It was the way Walsh talked about his offense and I've seen tons of coaching papers and discussions talk about the triangle when referring to plays that have both horizontal and vertical stretches on them.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by Jcool:

According to my homie @SharpFootball, NFL offenses are using 11 personnel (3 WR, 1 RB, 1 TE) 64% of the time.

The Patriots use it 53% of the time, 2nd lowest rate in the NFL.

Kyle Shanahan uses it just 39% of the time 🤯 All hail our Offensive King pic.twitter.com/iWNV5plyyP

— Adam Lefkoe (@AdamLefkoe) October 1, 2019

Current Personnel grouping splits(sharpfootball)

11 pers 39%
21 pers 36%
22 pers 16%
12 pers 8%

The 21 pers number is number 1 in the league and the league average is 9%

Personnel groupings are a pointless statistic. Football is all about matchups, most teams struggle to pass from 21 so tip their hat that they are running.

We're so effective out of it because Juice and Kittle are better than their opposite numbers in both the passing and running game, and wait until Coleman gets in and runs some routes.

It's just a snapshot in to the makeup of the offense. When I said first, I wasn't trying to imply "best". I should have just said most. What can be seen from personnel numbers are league wide trends and certain offensive philosophies response to them.

Originally posted by Niners816:
The Dwight Clark quote is silly. In the 3 years with Shanny they led the league in points 3 years, led the league in yards 2 years and the only time they didn't lead in yards they were second.....the offense in the dynasty years was never better then those 3 years. They didn't change the offense.

I've seen the passing plays in both the 1994 Niners playbook and the 2004 Broncos playbook. They are damn near identical. It comes down to ZBS vs Gap scheme. Mike basically added that to the Niners passing offense when he went to Denver.

this does not even address the fact that bill wash's offense is ILLEGAL in todays NFL.

You cant blindside block, cut block or high low people in the way the 49ers revolutionized blocking in the 80s.

No offense in the NFL uses Bill Walsh's running game

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by Niners816:
The Dwight Clark quote is silly. In the 3 years with Shanny they led the league in points 3 years, led the league in yards 2 years and the only time they didn't lead in yards they were second.....the offense in the dynasty years was never better then those 3 years. They didn't change the offense.

I've seen the passing plays in both the 1994 Niners playbook and the 2004 Broncos playbook. They are damn near identical. It comes down to ZBS vs Gap scheme. Mike basically added that to the Niners passing offense when he went to Denver.

this does not even address the fact that bill wash's offense is ILLEGAL in todays NFL.

You cant blindside block, cut block or high low people in the way the 49ers revolutionized blocking in the 80s.

No offense in the NFL uses Bill Walsh's running game

Agreed....the notions that somehow Mike Shanahan's offense needed to be "moved on from" is ridiculous. I would give almost anything to have had Mike Shanahan navigate us through the late 90's. He was elite....Just look at his run as a playcaller from 1992 to 1998:

1992 - 1st yards, 1st points
1993 - 1st yards, 1st points
1994 - 2nd yards, 1st points
1995 - 3rd yards, 3rd points
1996 - 1st yards, 4th points
1997 - 1st yards, 1st points
1998 - 3rd yards, 2nd points

I still kinda LMAO at that article kinda painting Marc Trestman as the guy to return us to our "roots".....Everyone that lived thru that 1995-96 period remembers what the offense looked like. It wasn't terrible but it also wasn't up to the level of the prior 3 years. 1995 was a very pass heavy offense that really resembled more of what the Trestman/Callahan offense in Oakland looked like. Part of this was due to OL problems and Running Back depth in 1995. 1995 had outstanding stats but the lack of a ground game eventually caught up to it. We saw more of the same in 1996 and the lack of running the ball eventually became a feature of the Trestman based WCO's.

I personally think that Shanahan started to realize that it was becoming harder to run from horizontal stacked formations with gap based blocking in the NFL by the mid 90's and that's why when it was his whole show he wanted to go the Alex GIbbs ZBS route. Would have loved for this to be with us after SB29....Especially when you consider George Seifert only coached with us 2 more years after SB29. Oh well, 20 years later we have the Shanahan offense in it's full Denver looking way in SF.

Speaking of ZBS and the WCO I was kinda wondering if that was what they were doing in KC in 1993 and 1994. I saw that Alex Gibbs was in KC and I know Paul Hackett was the OC and hell Joe Montana was QB Gonna have to look for some '93 and '94 KC games to see.

Originally posted by Dshearn:
this does not even address the fact that bill wash's offense is ILLEGAL in todays NFL.

You cant blindside block, cut block or high low people in the way the 49ers revolutionized blocking in the 80s.

No offense in the NFL uses Bill Walsh's running game

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by Jcool:

According to my homie @SharpFootball, NFL offenses are using 11 personnel (3 WR, 1 RB, 1 TE) 64% of the time.

The Patriots use it 53% of the time, 2nd lowest rate in the NFL.

Kyle Shanahan uses it just 39% of the time 🤯 All hail our Offensive King pic.twitter.com/iWNV5plyyP

— Adam Lefkoe (@AdamLefkoe) October 1, 2019

Current Personnel grouping splits(sharpfootball)

11 pers 39%
21 pers 36%
22 pers 16%
12 pers 8%

The 21 pers number is number 1 in the league and the league average is 9%

Personnel groupings are a pointless statistic. Football is all about matchups, most teams struggle to pass from 21 so tip their hat that they are running.

We're so effective out of it because Juice and Kittle are better than their opposite numbers in both the passing and running game, and wait until Coleman gets in and runs some routes.

It's just a snapshot in to the makeup of the offense. When I said first, I wasn't trying to imply "best". I should have just said most. What can be seen from personnel numbers are league wide trends and certain offensive philosophies response to them.

I wasn't having a dig at you, probably didn't explain myself very well. I think Kyle's expertise lies in the specific ways he attacks defenses, he uses their own rules against them.

The personnel groupings work because of our matchup advantages. We can show the same looks and personnel and run almost any play, all the while attacking you where you're weak.

There's simply no one better than Kyle at doing that. Andy Reid, McVay & The Pats scheme have the matchup part down, but not with the accompanied flexibility. Kyle is the best IMO.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I wasn't having a dig at you, probably didn't explain myself very well. I think Kyle's expertise lies in the specific ways he attacks defenses, he uses their own rules against them.

The personnel groupings work because of our matchup advantages. We can show the same looks and personnel and run almost any play, all the while attacking you where you're weak.

There's simply no one better than Kyle at doing that. Andy Reid, McVay & The Pats scheme have the matchup part down, but not with the accompanied flexibility. Kyle is the best IMO.

Juice to me is the not-secret-sauce....He's just so flexible and really can act as a HB, FB, Slot-WR and TE. He's just a great piece and kinda makes this whole deal work. You can see why Kyle identified him as being really important and John paid him accordingly.

Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:

Originally posted by Heroism:
Did the NFL loosen up it's copyright policy on YouTube? There are a lot of football content creators popping up, and this guy is pretty damn good.

Aren't you allowed to post almost anything if you're speaking over it?

As a content creator I can speak to this as there are pretty clear rules that youtube spells out to you.

1. The NFL and youtube entered into an agreement a few years ago where the NFL now has their own youtube channel. By doing so they entered in with their own, "fair use" clause. The "fair use" clause is one that basically states that when you put content up on youtube you have given youtube the right to broadcast that content however they like. If that means that it's on someone else's channel, that's the agreement you signed on to. However, where things start to get tricky is in monetization. If you're content is monetized and someone who is not on a monetized channel posts your stuff without any changes, is simply re-broadcasting your content, it will be removed(they have automatic algorithms that compare the digital fingerprints of your content to what has already been posted). If you have a monetized channel and post someone else's content, the ads that are run do not go towards your income, it will be given to the original creator.

However, if you make it an "original" work or interpretation by either adding commentary on the content or marking up the content, then it is now considered original and therefore the person using your content has full rights to run ads and gain income off your content.

2. In regards to the NFL content, it gets a little tricky. Because of the TV contracts and the usages of the network logos and commentary on the broadcast replays that are offered by the NFL any content that uses broadcast cameras are automatically flagged, regardless of original commentary or drawing over the video or whatever. The NFL doesn't prohibit the use of these images because they have an agreement with youtube but they will run ads on your video and get ALL the income off those ads.

3. In regards to the coaches film, it's hit or miss. Some of the content youtube will flag, some of it won't be. For example, to pull the curtain back a little bit, my most watched video of the past 2 weeks, the breakdown of Jimmy's game winning TD against the Steelers, the NFL received 100% of all the monies made from that video(based upon my cost per mille was probably around $170). Then, there are other videos where if I don't have enough drawing or interjecting images on the screen the NFL will run a "limited ads" claim on it where they will automatically assign the ads per video length and the creator will receive a small % of the revenue off of those ads.

Then, there are reported claims by the NFL. Where representatives of the NFL are watching all NFL related content on youtube and determining if the content created is "original enough". If it fails to achieve that (very arbitrary, IMO) designation the NFL will make a reported claim to your content as well and then, again, take all of the ad revenue.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

I wasn't having a dig at you, probably didn't explain myself very well. I think Kyle's expertise lies in the specific ways he attacks defenses, he uses their own rules against them.

The personnel groupings work because of our matchup advantages. We can show the same looks and personnel and run almost any play, all the while attacking you where you're weak.

There's simply no one better than Kyle at doing that. Andy Reid, McVay & The Pats scheme have the matchup part down, but not with the accompanied flexibility. Kyle is the best IMO.

Juice to me is the not-secret-sauce....He's just so flexible and really can act as a HB, FB, Slot-WR and TE. He's just a great piece and kinda makes this whole deal work. You can see why Kyle identified him as being really important and John paid him accordingly.

I completely agree regarding Juice, but think Kittle is also a big part of it. Basically he can't be covered by anyone he wouldn't dominate blocking in the run game.

When you add the two of them, and maybe Coleman and Hurd, the playbook becomes wide open.

Kyle is just getting started with our offense IMO.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
I wasn't having a dig at you, probably didn't explain myself very well. I think Kyle's expertise lies in the specific ways he attacks defenses, he uses their own rules against them.

The personnel groupings work because of our matchup advantages. We can show the same looks and personnel and run almost any play, all the while attacking you where you're weak.

There's simply no one better than Kyle at doing that. Andy Reid, McVay & The Pats scheme have the matchup part down, but not with the accompanied flexibility. Kyle is the best IMO.

Juice to me is the not-secret-sauce....He's just so flexible and really can act as a HB, FB, Slot-WR and TE. He's just a great piece and kinda makes this whole deal work. You can see why Kyle identified him as being really important and John paid him accordingly.

I completely agree regarding Juice, but think Kittle is also a big part of it. Basically he can't be covered by anyone he wouldn't dominate blocking in the run game.

When you add the two of them, and maybe Coleman and Hurd, the playbook becomes wide open.

Kyle is just getting started with our offense IMO.

Agree on Kittle's as well...To me he's the best player on offense.