49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

How effing sweet is it to hear from Hoyer talk about how hard Kyle is working on him and the QB's on FUNDAMENTALS. Rookie or seasoned veteran, it never ends.

Yeah, I never got the feeling that Harbaugh focused on the fundamentals, he was a gifted QB and I think those came naturally to him that he may not have focused on it with his QB's.

I feel like he did.. But was it enough and did he do everything possible to keep elevating his QBs play? It was working with Alex at one point.

We never know how that one wouldve finished. Though you could say chances were Smith mighta been in the end too limited.

"I'm not big on mechanics."

There it is. The only time he worked on it was in Kurt Warner's camp. Too late to train an old dog new tricks by then. HaRoman ran a lot of traditional WCO designs but IMHO, they were not run in traditional WCO spirit (fundamentals, progression reading, snaps under C, footwork tied to timing of primary, secondary and check-down routes, etc.). For him it was primarily, one-read pass then run. And I believe HaRoman was perfectly fine with that.

I have to agree, Harbaugh did not run a traditional pass first WCO. The read option was big back then, and a running QB can give an advantage to the offense. Kyle pointed another thing in that Kaep never ran an offense from under center in college and so it just too to long for him to develop the pocket QB skills that a WCO demands. The nail on the coffin was the front office not giving enough priority to find him some receivers to throw to. His lack of mechanics, and Harbaugh's lack of emphasis on them further retarded his progress. All in all it was a slow motion disaster in the making.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
"I'm not big on mechanics...or fundamentals for that matter". ...how unfortunate.

And he's out of a job. Kyle alluded to that in a sense, football nerds like BeatHard really focus on every aspect of their craft. That includes mechanics.

too many guys come into the league and think correlation equals causation. Sure there are guys in the history of the league that have abandoned mechanics or have an odd throwing motion and have been super successful but they are exceptions to the rules. Now every kid who comes in and thinks he is hot s**t is auto calling themselves one of those exceptions with zero science or data to back that up other than some success in college.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tohara3:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by gold49digger:

what position is she coaching?

She was assisting with the wide receivers. I don't know if that will continue to be her role or not.

Well the WR's did great against KC so whatever the WR coaching staff did hopefully continues. We're in Denver and we'll need some offense in that place.

A home game in Denver?

Yikes, big boo boo there! I guess I'm human! Darn!

I just rewatched Atlanta vs Greenbay NFC championship game, and Kyle handled the Green Bay defense with ease. I'm wondering though, if he'll focus too much on offense during his tenure with the 49ers. Green Bay under McCarthy seems to have developed a one sided ball club. Lots of offense and not much defense. I'm glad Kyle drafted defense first and maybe that's how he'll approach his tenure here. While I love great offenses, I'm a tad worried that - we'll have too much offense and not a lot of defense. We shall see...

Jon Lynch hopefully is helping Saleh behind the scenes.

I don't think John Lynch will let that happen. I'm sure he will make sure the team stays balanced with getting very good defenders thru the draft or FA for this ball club.

Heh, actually I don't really want a balanced team. I want a defense dominated team with a good ball control all weather offense. Right now Kyle's WCO is to pass happy for me, and I don't really see a good 4rth quarter ground game that can put teams away (at least that's what I saw in the two playoff games I saw). Hope that changes, and hope that Kyle develops that ground and pound 4rth quarter run game. On defense, I'd like our defense to dominate like our previous super bowl defenses (except for the 5th super bowl that had more offense). The Atlanta defense, for some reason, disappeared in the super bowl. Maybe injuries, maybe they weren't as good as their statistics say, but down 20+ points and come back to win the game, means that Atlanta defense has something wrong with it, and Kyle wants that defense for the 49ers.

Yes, but we already have the answer for that...ground pounding , sod busting R side of OL. We can run power there all day long if we want...or especially in the 4th qtr, with a big lead ...in the SB...of course that is advancing things a bit but the point remains the same. We have an excellent power blocking scheme on the R . And we can run L to wthi Joe, power. Just means we ahave another option than ZBS in the 4th qtr...if we want it. And ATL could have used that.

Great Point Doc! Yes they still have some of the Harbaugh power run personnel, and I know Alex Gibs can coach both styles. I hope what you say holds true and they do keep a variety of O-linemen, and that also mean they might draft one or two linemen higher in the draft next year if they are really concerned about a lack of the 4th qtr 4 minute offense.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:
How effing sweet is it to hear from Hoyer talk about how hard Kyle is working on him and the QB's on FUNDAMENTALS. Rookie or seasoned veteran, it never ends.

Yeah, I never got the feeling that Harbaugh focused on the fundamentals, he was a gifted QB and I think those came naturally to him that he may not have focused on it with his QB's.

I feel like he did.. But was it enough and did he do everything possible to keep elevating his QBs play? It was working with Alex at one point.

We never know how that one wouldve finished. Though you could say chances were Smith mighta been in the end too limited.

"I'm not big on mechanics."

There it is. The only time he worked on it was in Kurt Warner's camp. Too late to train an old dog new tricks by then. HaRoman ran a lot of traditional WCO designs but IMHO, they were not run in traditional WCO spirit (fundamentals, progression reading, snaps under C, footwork tied to timing of primary, secondary and check-down routes, etc.). For him it was primarily, one-read pass then run. And I believe HaRoman was perfectly fine with that.

I have to agree, Harbaugh did not run a traditional pass first WCO. The read option was big back then, and a running QB can give an advantage to the offense. Kyle pointed another thing in that Kaep never ran an offense from under center in college and so it just too to long for him to develop the pocket QB skills that a WCO demands. The nail on the coffin was the front office not giving enough priority to find him some receivers to throw to. His lack of mechanics, and Harbaugh's lack of emphasis on them further retarded his progress. All in all it was a slow motion disaster in the making.

Harbaugh was a very tough QB to coach. His problems with Ditka stemmed from his refusal to learn the nuances of the game rather than just try to out-throw the defenders. I recall some of his really bonehead interceptions when he basically threw games away rather than being patient. So his lack of respect for coaching bled into his own coaching. But he was really excellent at getting guys to play hard and take a lot onto themselves. With a guy like Smith it worked because he was always working on the mental aspects of the game. JH may have stunted Kaepernick's development though by letting him rely on athleticism alone. Hard to know--we aren't in the QB room, but I liked the competitive nature he set up.

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
"I'm not big on mechanics...or fundamentals for that matter". ...how unfortunate.

And he's out of a job. Kyle alluded to that in a sense, football nerds like BeatHard really focus on every aspect of their craft. That includes mechanics.

too many guys come into the league and think correlation equals causation. Sure there are guys in the history of the league that have abandoned mechanics or have an odd throwing motion and have been super successful but they are exceptions to the rules. Now every kid who comes in and thinks he is hot s**t is auto calling themselves one of those exceptions with zero science or data to back that up other than some success in college.

I agree, there was a coaching clinic that Harbaugh taught and it was filmed and he was basically saying he didn't care how the QB throws, as long as it got to the pass receiver and basically that doesn't sound like Kyle at all (and it sure sounds like Colin). That tells me a lot about the differences between Harbaugh and Kyle. The WCO is a very patient offense, and it's almost opposite of what Harbaugh's personality is. The Al Davis, raider long ball is more like what Harbaugh's personality fits to. They still require the sid gillman timing concepts, but Al Davis' offense required a very different QB from the regular WCO QB and needed a different mindset because it was a long ball offense vs a horizontal offense. With Al, he wanted speed so the QB can just throw the ball to the receiver because of his speed. Harbaugh did know how to motivate, and I remember Walsh saying that kind of rah rah motivation only lasts so long before it peters out. He said 3 games at most, and we always had this pattern of win win win loss or something like that throughout Harbuagh's career here with the 49ers. Yeah, fundamentals and knowledge of the game lasts longer than motivation, and that's why Walsh was so successful and in the Hall of Fame.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
"I'm not big on mechanics...or fundamentals for that matter". ...how unfortunate.

And he's out of a job. Kyle alluded to that in a sense, football nerds like BeatHard really focus on every aspect of their craft. That includes mechanics.

too many guys come into the league and think correlation equals causation. Sure there are guys in the history of the league that have abandoned mechanics or have an odd throwing motion and have been super successful but they are exceptions to the rules. Now every kid who comes in and thinks he is hot s**t is auto calling themselves one of those exceptions with zero science or data to back that up other than some success in college.

I agree, there was a coaching clinic that Harbaugh taught and it was filmed and he was basically saying he didn't care how the QB throws, as long as it got to the pass receiver and basically that doesn't sound like Kyle at all (and it sure sounds like Colin). That tells me a lot about the differences between Harbaugh and Kyle. The WCO is a very patient offense, and it's almost opposite of what Harbaugh's personality is. The Al Davis, raider long ball is more like what Harbaugh's personality fits to. They still require the sid gillman timing concepts, but Al Davis' offense required a very different QB from the regular WCO QB and needed a different mindset because it was a long ball offense vs a horizontal offense. With Al, he wanted speed so the QB can just throw the ball to the receiver because of his speed. Harbaugh did know how to motivate, and I remember Walsh saying that kind of rah rah motivation only lasts so long before it peters out. He said 3 games at most, and we always had this pattern of win win win loss or something like that throughout Harbuagh's career here with the 49ers. Yeah, fundamentals and knowledge of the game lasts longer than motivation, and that's why Walsh was so successful and in the Hall of Fame.

I think JH was referring to release, which I think is overrated to an extent. Footwork is the biggest factor in consistent QB'ing.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tohara3:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by gold49digger:

what position is she coaching?

She was assisting with the wide receivers. I don't know if that will continue to be her role or not.

Well the WR's did great against KC so whatever the WR coaching staff did hopefully continues. We're in Denver and we'll need some offense in that place.

A home game in Denver?

Yikes, big boo boo there! I guess I'm human! Darn!

I just rewatched Atlanta vs Greenbay NFC championship game, and Kyle handled the Green Bay defense with ease. I'm wondering though, if he'll focus too much on offense during his tenure with the 49ers. Green Bay under McCarthy seems to have developed a one sided ball club. Lots of offense and not much defense. I'm glad Kyle drafted defense first and maybe that's how he'll approach his tenure here. While I love great offenses, I'm a tad worried that - we'll have too much offense and not a lot of defense. We shall see...

Jon Lynch hopefully is helping Saleh behind the scenes.

I don't think John Lynch will let that happen. I'm sure he will make sure the team stays balanced with getting very good defenders thru the draft or FA for this ball club.

Heh, actually I don't really want a balanced team. I want a defense dominated team with a good ball control all weather offense. Right now Kyle's WCO is to pass happy for me, and I don't really see a good 4rth quarter ground game that can put teams away (at least that's what I saw in the two playoff games I saw). Hope that changes, and hope that Kyle develops that ground and pound 4rth quarter run game. On defense, I'd like our defense to dominate like our previous super bowl defenses (except for the 5th super bowl that had more offense). The Atlanta defense, for some reason, disappeared in the super bowl. Maybe injuries, maybe they weren't as good as their statistics say, but down 20+ points and come back to win the game, means that Atlanta defense has something wrong with it, and Kyle wants that defense for the 49ers.

Yes, but we already have the answer for that...ground pounding , sod busting R side of OL. We can run power there all day long if we want...or especially in the 4th qtr, with a big lead ...in the SB...of course that is advancing things a bit but the point remains the same. We have an excellent power blocking scheme on the R . And we can run L to wthi Joe, power. Just means we ahave another option than ZBS in the 4th qtr...if we want it. And ATL could have used that.

Great Point Doc! Yes they still have some of the Harbaugh power run personnel, and I know Alex Gibs can coach both styles. I hope what you say holds true and they do keep a variety of O-linemen, and that also mean they might draft one or two linemen higher in the draft next year if they are really concerned about a lack of the 4th qtr 4 minute offense.

Giedi, the guy to watch is Derrell Williams if you are interested in power blocking. He is the huge guy at 6'6' or 6'7" who plays OT, but has also played OG. He, like Trenton, is agile, quick guy for his size. If we protect him, or IR him , then they are going to keep guys for power blocking . Not sure about ZBS with him, however.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
"I'm not big on mechanics...or fundamentals for that matter". ...how unfortunate.

And he's out of a job. Kyle alluded to that in a sense, football nerds like BeatHard really focus on every aspect of their craft. That includes mechanics.

too many guys come into the league and think correlation equals causation. Sure there are guys in the history of the league that have abandoned mechanics or have an odd throwing motion and have been super successful but they are exceptions to the rules. Now every kid who comes in and thinks he is hot s**t is auto calling themselves one of those exceptions with zero science or data to back that up other than some success in college.

I agree, there was a coaching clinic that Harbaugh taught and it was filmed and he was basically saying he didn't care how the QB throws, as long as it got to the pass receiver and basically that doesn't sound like Kyle at all (and it sure sounds like Colin). That tells me a lot about the differences between Harbaugh and Kyle. The WCO is a very patient offense, and it's almost opposite of what Harbaugh's personality is. The Al Davis, raider long ball is more like what Harbaugh's personality fits to. They still require the sid gillman timing concepts, but Al Davis' offense required a very different QB from the regular WCO QB and needed a different mindset because it was a long ball offense vs a horizontal offense. With Al, he wanted speed so the QB can just throw the ball to the receiver because of his speed. Harbaugh did know how to motivate, and I remember Walsh saying that kind of rah rah motivation only lasts so long before it peters out. He said 3 games at most, and we always had this pattern of win win win loss or something like that throughout Harbuagh's career here with the 49ers. Yeah, fundamentals and knowledge of the game lasts longer than motivation, and that's why Walsh was so successful and in the Hall of Fame.

I think JH was referring to release, which I think is overrated to an extent. Footwork is the biggest factor in consistent QB'ing.

Okay, but isn't release something to do with throwing mechanics? Also, as much as I say Harbaugh wasn't into fundamentals, after all he was an NFL QB for a number of years, he must have had some training in the fundamentals. Just not so much the timing and footwork with the fundamentals in the WCO. I remember Tom Landry trying to implement the WCO by himself and gave up because the WCO is more than just pass patterns, but timing, footwork, practice and the adjustments... He finally hired Paul Hackett to implement the WCO, it's just his luck that Paul Hackett sucked as a WCO and QB coach. But a lot of the NFL coveted all of Walsh's assistants because nobody outside of his coaching pedigree was able to teach the WCO fundamentals. I think this is Harbaugh's problem, he was under Gruden and Seifert and I don't think either of them had the depth of knowledge of the WCO that Kyle had through Mike Shanahan with regards to the fundamentals. Even Mike Shanahan, when he drafted Brian Greise, I don't think really was a QB coach the way Kyle is. Mike, when he was with the raiders really didn't make a name for himself as QB guru. When Mike went to the Broncos, he had a ready made Franchise QB in Elway. I think, from a QB standpoint, Kyle is heads and shoulders above his father with regards to QB'ing knowledge and the ability to get a Franchise QB.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tohara3:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by gold49digger:
what position is she coaching?

She was assisting with the wide receivers. I don't know if that will continue to be her role or not.

Well the WR's did great against KC so whatever the WR coaching staff did hopefully continues. We're in Denver and we'll need some offense in that place.

A home game in Denver?

Yikes, big boo boo there! I guess I'm human! Darn!

I just rewatched Atlanta vs Greenbay NFC championship game, and Kyle handled the Green Bay defense with ease. I'm wondering though, if he'll focus too much on offense during his tenure with the 49ers. Green Bay under McCarthy seems to have developed a one sided ball club. Lots of offense and not much defense. I'm glad Kyle drafted defense first and maybe that's how he'll approach his tenure here. While I love great offenses, I'm a tad worried that - we'll have too much offense and not a lot of defense. We shall see...

Jon Lynch hopefully is helping Saleh behind the scenes.

I don't think John Lynch will let that happen. I'm sure he will make sure the team stays balanced with getting very good defenders thru the draft or FA for this ball club.

Heh, actually I don't really want a balanced team. I want a defense dominated team with a good ball control all weather offense. Right now Kyle's WCO is to pass happy for me, and I don't really see a good 4rth quarter ground game that can put teams away (at least that's what I saw in the two playoff games I saw). Hope that changes, and hope that Kyle develops that ground and pound 4rth quarter run game. On defense, I'd like our defense to dominate like our previous super bowl defenses (except for the 5th super bowl that had more offense). The Atlanta defense, for some reason, disappeared in the super bowl. Maybe injuries, maybe they weren't as good as their statistics say, but down 20+ points and come back to win the game, means that Atlanta defense has something wrong with it, and Kyle wants that defense for the 49ers.

Yes, but we already have the answer for that...ground pounding , sod busting R side of OL. We can run power there all day long if we want...or especially in the 4th qtr, with a big lead ...in the SB...of course that is advancing things a bit but the point remains the same. We have an excellent power blocking scheme on the R . And we can run L to wthi Joe, power. Just means we ahave another option than ZBS in the 4th qtr...if we want it. And ATL could have used that.

Great Point Doc! Yes they still have some of the Harbaugh power run personnel, and I know Alex Gibs can coach both styles. I hope what you say holds true and they do keep a variety of O-linemen, and that also mean they might draft one or two linemen higher in the draft next year if they are really concerned about a lack of the 4th qtr 4 minute offense.

Giedi, the guy to watch is Derrell Williams if you are interested in power blocking. He is the huge guy at 6'6' or 6'7" who plays OT, but has also played OG. He, like Trenton, is agile, quick guy for his size. If we protect him, or IR him , then they are going to keep guys for power blocking . Not sure about ZBS with him, however.

Doc, Excellent! Great insight and point! That's the kind of O LInemen I'd like Kyle to have. Great in zone run blocking and decent to good in man blocking. In other words, Kyle's O Line should be able to switch from zone run in the first half to man power blocking in the 2nd half. They may not do a great job of it like Harbuagh's O Lines, but they should be good enough to cross up the defensive squeeze scheme's of the Dom Capers and Bill Bellicheats of the NFL. All he needs to do is get one first down doing man blocking and that will really confuse the defenses as to how to deal with Kyle's 4rth quarter 4 minute offensive runs.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

"I'm not big on mechanics...or fundamentals for that matter". ...how unfortunate.

And he's out of a job. Kyle alluded to that in a sense, football nerds like BeatHard really focus on every aspect of their craft. That includes mechanics.

too many guys come into the league and think correlation equals causation. Sure there are guys in the history of the league that have abandoned mechanics or have an odd throwing motion and have been super successful but they are exceptions to the rules. Now every kid who comes in and thinks he is hot s**t is auto calling themselves one of those exceptions with zero science or data to back that up other than some success in college.

I agree, there was a coaching clinic that Harbaugh taught and it was filmed and he was basically saying he didn't care how the QB throws, as long as it got to the pass receiver and basically that doesn't sound like Kyle at all (and it sure sounds like Colin). That tells me a lot about the differences between Harbaugh and Kyle. The WCO is a very patient offense, and it's almost opposite of what Harbaugh's personality is. The Al Davis, raider long ball is more like what Harbaugh's personality fits to. They still require the sid gillman timing concepts, but Al Davis' offense required a very different QB from the regular WCO QB and needed a different mindset because it was a long ball offense vs a horizontal offense. With Al, he wanted speed so the QB can just throw the ball to the receiver because of his speed. Harbaugh did know how to motivate, and I remember Walsh saying that kind of rah rah motivation only lasts so long before it peters out. He said 3 games at most, and we always had this pattern of win win win loss or something like that throughout Harbuagh's career here with the 49ers. Yeah, fundamentals and knowledge of the game lasts longer than motivation, and that's why Walsh was so successful and in the Hall of Fame.

Great stuff fellas. Truly!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Great stuff fellas. Truly!

To think Manziel was drafted when Shanny was there is funny. Clearly they didnt listen to anything he said.

He was just on knbr

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

He was just on knbr

Prove it

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

He was just on knbr

Prove it

Lol.

Yeah Donnie, pics or it didnt happen.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Great stuff fellas. Truly!

To think Manziel was drafted when Shanny was there is funny. Clearly they didnt listen to anything he said.

Not. One. Word.

Dude had to feel like deja vu all over again.