49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by norcal49er864:
ITT:. Butthurt people who we haven't heard from in a while poke their heads back above the surface, always watching and waiting for their "I told you so" moment.

alot of people had concerns about this hire and the lynch hire from day one. i had a open mind but so far. i see a crap roster. i see a team totally disheveled in two games. spin it as you want but 35 penalties in two games and the coach gets all bent out of shape when someone stands up to Jr and asks him about it. this team needs a veteran coach who can kick players in the ass. oh some of us raised worries weeks ago and were told. relax. its only practice wait for pre season games/. now we have seen the disaster of our team and all the mistakes. now of course. you move the goal and say.. but but. its only pre season. wait for the regular season games

You realize this is year 1 of a 6 year contract that ownership has fully signed off. Secondly, I don't see a disaster at all. I se a young team with several promising players and a young coach that will improve with time. If Shanahan was a disciplinarian with no offensive prowess, I would feel much worse. You can acquire the leadership / disciplinarian skills. You can't necessarily acquire the talent to out-think / out-scheme your opponents. No one said that they were going to win it all year 1.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:
The sloppy turnovers are a concern but I'd attribute that more to carelessness. There have been many illegal shift/formation penalties in both preseason games. This has to be drilled into the players - 7 guys on the LoS, cover the tackle, don't have 2 players in motion simultaneously - it's not rocket science. Some of these penalties have got to drive him up the wall. Time to focus on some basic fundamentals because these types of penalties are free yards for the defense.

This is where I am at. I expect this to get cleaned up as time goes on...or I hope so

I understand why it can happen often in this offense with all the formations and shifts/motion. My guess is with 45 offensive players (estimate), it's harder to focus on these little things that a coach might assume is elementary by now (NFL).

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:
The sloppy turnovers are a concern but I'd attribute that more to carelessness. There have been many illegal shift/formation penalties in both preseason games. This has to be drilled into the players - 7 guys on the LoS, cover the tackle, don't have 2 players in motion simultaneously - it's not rocket science. Some of these penalties have got to drive him up the wall. Time to focus on some basic fundamentals because these types of penalties are free yards for the defense.

This is where I am at. I expect this to get cleaned up as time goes on...or I hope so

i hope you guys are right. i am stunned by the amount of people who are unwilling or unable to see there are any issues at all. when we are setting there in game 2 and 3 and 4 making 15 penalties a game. then you have to have a conversation of if this guy is in over his head

Originally posted by cciowa:
alot of people had concerns about this hire and the lynch hire from day one. i had a open mind but so far. i see a crap roster. i see a team totally disheveled in two games. spin it as you want but 35 penalties in two games and the coach gets all bent out of shape when someone stands up to Jr and asks him about it. this team needs a veteran coach who can kick players in the ass. oh some of us raised worries weeks ago and were told. relax. its only practice wait for pre season games/. now we have seen the disaster of our team and all the mistakes. now of course. you move the goal and say.. but but. its only pre season. wait for the regular season games

In 2011 49ers lost preseason games 24-3 & 30-7. So lest not freak out to much. ITS PRESEASON!

First really big test of our coach here. The game plan is clearly the best we have had in well over a decade maybe two, but the discipline is going to have to take a dramatic uptick. The fumbles and penalties are clear signs of a coach going to easy on guys, the play is sloppy when the discipline isn't being instilled in your young players. Hoyer's fumble was likely a fluke and the bobble turning into an interception is just something that happens some times, but the rest were guys being careless and the sheer number of penalties speaks volumes. We have a lot of young players and they need a firm hand at the wheel more then vets do, time for the coach to step up and make a couple of examples or go to the veteran leaders on the team and ask them to take up the disciplinarian role from the inside.

Originally posted by thl408:

I understand why it can happen often in this offense with all the formations and shifts/motion. My guess is with 45 offensive players (estimate), it's harder to focus on these little things that a coach might assume is elementary by now (NFL).

This stuff will get flushed out. s**t, we motion and shift on every play. People need to realize this is year 1 of an offense install, growing pains are gonna happen.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:
The sloppy turnovers are a concern but I'd attribute that more to carelessness. There have been many illegal shift/formation penalties in both preseason games. This has to be drilled into the players - 7 guys on the LoS, cover the tackle, don't have 2 players in motion simultaneously - it's not rocket science. Some of these penalties have got to drive him up the wall. Time to focus on some basic fundamentals because these types of penalties are free yards for the defense.

This is where I am at. I expect this to get cleaned up as time goes on...or I hope so

I understand why it can happen often in this offense with all the formations and shifts/motion. My guess is with 45 offensive players (estimate), it's harder to focus on these little things that a coach might assume is elementary by now (NFL).

I agree, and those formation shifts and movements give an edge to the offense because it can telegraph the defensive coverages. It's essential that the starters master those things otherwise if they don't and they have to go to less shifts and movement, I think it really hampers Kyle's offense. His offense is based a lot on misdirection and false looks, to overcome the talent gap specially with his offensive players being less athletically talented than the defenses they face. Having the TE and the Fullback move simultaneously is a penalty (I think) but for Kyle's run game to work, the fullback and TE have to get in the correct positions otherwise it's a run that's not going to probably get much yardage.

Originally posted by Giedi:

I agree, and those formation shifts and movements give an edge to the offense because it can telegraph the defensive coverages. It's essential that the starters master those things otherwise if they don't and they have to go to less shifts and movement, I think it really hampers Kyle's offense. His offense is based a lot on misdirection and false looks, to overcome the talent gap specially with his offensive players being less athletically talented than the defenses they face. Having the TE and the Fullback move simultaneously is a penalty (I think) but for Kyle's run game to work, the fullback and TE have to get in the correct positions otherwise it's a run that's not going to probably get much yardage.

You can have multiple guys moving when shifting....one of them just have to be set for 1 second before the snap. You can only have one guy in motion during the snap

Read his conference call transcript from yesterday if you haven't. Ninersnation.com posted it. I can't really explain his way of expressing things but it's very good. He knows exactly what's wrong and how to fix it, but just really doesn't have the full complement of personnel and tools to accomplish it yet.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I agree, and those formation shifts and movements give an edge to the offense because it can telegraph the defensive coverages. It's essential that the starters master those things otherwise if they don't and they have to go to less shifts and movement, I think it really hampers Kyle's offense. His offense is based a lot on misdirection and false looks, to overcome the talent gap specially with his offensive players being less athletically talented than the defenses they face. Having the TE and the Fullback move simultaneously is a penalty (I think) but for Kyle's run game to work, the fullback and TE have to get in the correct positions otherwise it's a run that's not going to probably get much yardage.

Yeah all that motion and shifts is to give presnap intel and force the defense to make checks. Over the two preseason games thus far, with Hoyer in the game ("starters"), there has been 2 illegal formation penalties and 1 illegal shift. He's only played 3 quarters this preseason. The illegal shift was an accident (I think it was Goodwin and Vance), but for the illegal formations the players have to look after one another and check each other.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by thl408:
The sloppy turnovers are a concern but I'd attribute that more to carelessness. There have been many illegal shift/formation penalties in both preseason games. This has to be drilled into the players - 7 guys on the LoS, cover the tackle, don't have 2 players in motion simultaneously - it's not rocket science. Some of these penalties have got to drive him up the wall. Time to focus on some basic fundamentals because these types of penalties are free yards for the defense.

This is where I am at. I expect this to get cleaned up as time goes on...or I hope so

I understand why it can happen often in this offense with all the formations and shifts/motion. My guess is with 45 offensive players (estimate), it's harder to focus on these little things that a coach might assume is elementary by now (NFL).

I can't. Illegal motion and covering the tackle is something you learn in HS.

Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:
harbs was a leader, shanny is not a leader, he more of an X and O's guy, you can tell the difference with body language on the sidelines between the two. i mean im sure he can be successful too with right personal tho , right now we aint got no QB on the team and no RB of the future, hyde is 27 and still hasnt proven himself for a year? time to move on with something else there, and secondary sucks too.

You can tell all that after two games ... LOL I guess what your saying is Shanny needs to start acting like a kid having a tantrum more often. Sorry, I could not disagree with your take more with such little evidence so far.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I agree, and those formation shifts and movements give an edge to the offense because it can telegraph the defensive coverages. It's essential that the starters master those things otherwise if they don't and they have to go to less shifts and movement, I think it really hampers Kyle's offense. His offense is based a lot on misdirection and false looks, to overcome the talent gap specially with his offensive players being less athletically talented than the defenses they face. Having the TE and the Fullback move simultaneously is a penalty (I think) but for Kyle's run game to work, the fullback and TE have to get in the correct positions otherwise it's a run that's not going to probably get much yardage.

Yeah all that motion and shifts is to give presnap intel and force the defense to make checks. Over the two preseason games thus far, with Hoyer in the game ("starters"), there has been 2 illegal formation penalties and 1 illegal shift. He's only played 3 quarters this preseason. The illegal shift was an accident (I think it was Goodwin and Vance), but for the illegal formations the players have to look after one another and check each other.

Yep, and usually the *illegal formation shifts* happen on 3rd and long when you do need that pre snap intel coverage - on whether a blitz is coming or not. As the offense becomes more unconscious and the players get familiar with each other, I hope those penalties are reduced. I can see us losing a lot of games because we didn't covert 3rd downs due to penalties. The fact that this team isn't very talented and then add to that - having to overcome penalty situations - that's going to cut into our potential wins this year.

Geez, so much anger after two preseason games with a brand new staff, brand new roster, and brand new schemes (yet again, ugh). Give it time. People forget under the first two years of Harbaugh, the team was the 6th and 7th most penalized team in the league, respectively.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Giedi:

I agree, and those formation shifts and movements give an edge to the offense because it can telegraph the defensive coverages. It's essential that the starters master those things otherwise if they don't and they have to go to less shifts and movement, I think it really hampers Kyle's offense. His offense is based a lot on misdirection and false looks, to overcome the talent gap specially with his offensive players being less athletically talented than the defenses they face. Having the TE and the Fullback move simultaneously is a penalty (I think) but for Kyle's run game to work, the fullback and TE have to get in the correct positions otherwise it's a run that's not going to probably get much yardage.

Yeah all that motion and shifts is to give presnap intel and force the defense to make checks. Over the two preseason games thus far, with Hoyer in the game ("starters"), there has been 2 illegal formation penalties and 1 illegal shift. He's only played 3 quarters this preseason. The illegal shift was an accident (I think it was Goodwin and Vance), but for the illegal formations the players have to look after one another and check each other.

Yep, and usually the *illegal formation shifts* happen on 3rd and long when you do need that pre snap intel coverage - on whether a blitz is coming or not. As the offense becomes more unconscious and the players get familiar with each other, I hope those penalties are reduced. I can see us losing a lot of games because we didn't covert 3rd downs due to penalties. The fact that this team isn't very talented and then add to that - having to overcome penalty situations - that's going to cut into our potential wins this year.

That illegal shift was bogus