49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Follower:

Third preseason game coming up.... at the minimum, I exoect a significant reduction in penalties and turnovers.... At least get this team playing with some discipline.

If this is the dress rehearsal, the starters will know their roles and there will be game planning. This means aside from special teams, there shouldn't be any illegal formation penalties...hopefully no false starts either.

Remember that time when the Khaki's team had an illegal formation on the first play of the super bowl to negate a 20 pass play.....boy, they had 2 weeks to get that play installed. Point is, we are marking way too much of a deal about this s**t. This is what training camp is for. I don't give a s**t what anyone thinks....offense's aren't totally installed and run to perfect in the matter of 1 training camp and 2 preseason games. s**t happens and it's not an indictment on the ability of the coach.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Guys, I am beginning to think the penalties will continue, at least thru PS Game 3, because , fortunately, for the first time in this century, Kyle and John have done the one thing I have wanted each and every yr for the last 17 yrs now...and simply, that is knowing WTF is on the bench, as well as on the field. I can see Kyle doesn't like all the stupid penalties...but...he and John have made it their quest to know what each and every player CAN do, and same for what they CAN'T do. My guess is, Kyle has not worked on offsides, holding, PI, etc. NONE. Why? Because they wanted to give each and every guy (except for those they knew would not make it, e.g., Zut) a full and thorough chance to prove they belonged here or not. And by devoting most of their time to this, penalties have drawn short shrift.

My guess is most decisions will be made after Vikes game, and the following week, they begin to work on penalties. Does anyone REALLY think Kyle has been working on penalties to date? I sure don't, because they have gotten worse, not better. He's a better coach than that. Besides why waste time on teaching guys who won't make the cut, on how to cut down on penalties.

I also think that is why Kyle got so hacked when Cohn, that little turdlet, tried to teach Kyle how "jimbo" did it. What an idiota.

Would have been funny if Kyle responded with, oh, you mean the guy with the simple predictable offense? Of course, there's an easy comeback for that one though.

Had a thought in terms of QB evaluation. Why did Walsh create the WCO? Was it for a QB with a big arm? Was it for a QB who could run? Was it for a QB who can hit a 20 yard out?
None of these. Walsh had a QB who had quick feet, athleticism, an average arm, accuracy, toughness and relentless competitiveness.

WCO isn't necessarily for the big arm fast running QBs. It is for the tough SOBs that know how to get the ball where it needs to go and can do it under imperfect situations. I can totally see why Kyle felt Beathard was the #1 QB on his list. Don't know how a player will react until he's been through adversity and I haven't heard anything about Beathard not having gone through this.

Fingers crossed on this one staying healthy because nobody can control crazy injuries.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Follower:

Third preseason game coming up.... at the minimum, I exoect a significant reduction in penalties and turnovers.... At least get this team playing with some discipline.

If this is the dress rehearsal, the starters will know their roles and there will be game planning. This means aside from special teams, there shouldn't be any illegal formation penalties...hopefully no false starts either.

Remember that time when the Khaki's team had an illegal formation on the first play of the super bowl to negate a 20 pass play.....boy, they had 2 weeks to get that play installed. Point is, we are marking way too much of a deal about this s**t. This is what training camp is for. I don't give a s**t what anyone thinks....offense's aren't totally installed and run to perfect in the matter of 1 training camp and 2 preseason games. s**t happens and it's not an indictment on the ability of the coach.

But yeah...I guess when this is all fans see, it's easy to overreact but every year we're reminded of how polar opposite pre season can be from regular season.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Follower:
Third preseason game coming up.... at the minimum, I exoect a significant reduction in penalties and turnovers.... At least get this team playing with some discipline.

If this is the dress rehearsal, the starters will know their roles and there will be game planning. This means aside from special teams, there shouldn't be any illegal formation penalties...hopefully no false starts either.

Remember that time when the Khaki's team had an illegal formation on the first play of the super bowl to negate a 20 pass play.....boy, they had 2 weeks to get that play installed. Point is, we are marking way too much of a deal about this s**t. This is what training camp is for. I don't give a s**t what anyone thinks....offense's aren't totally installed and run to perfect in the matter of 1 training camp and 2 preseason games. s**t happens and it's not an indictment on the ability of the coach.

But yeah...I guess when this is all fans see, it's easy to overreact but every year we're reminded of how polar opposite pre season can be from regular season.

And it's easy to forget how many formations and variations there are. I know in Shanny sr.'s mini-camp playbook there's somewhere around 125 formations or more. Then you throw in something like, "U right" and now your second TE needs to understand how he's going to shift and your WR now has to understand that if he was on a non TE position that if the TE is going to be on the LOS then he has to back off or he'll make that TE ineligible.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

And it's easy to forget how many formations and variations there are. I know in Shanny sr.'s mini-camp playbook there's somewhere around 125 formations or more. Then you throw in something like, "U right" and now your second TE needs to understand how he's going to shift and your WR now has to understand that if he was on a non TE position that if the TE is going to be on the LOS then he has to back off or he'll make that TE ineligible.

That's why it's usually accepted that it takes about 3 years for an offense to be fully installed. The s**t is complex and it's that complexity that makes it tough to stop.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

And it's easy to forget how many formations and variations there are. I know in Shanny sr.'s mini-camp playbook there's somewhere around 125 formations or more. Then you throw in something like, "U right" and now your second TE needs to understand how he's going to shift and your WR now has to understand that if he was on a non TE position that if the TE is going to be on the LOS then he has to back off or he'll make that TE ineligible.

That's why it's usually accepted that it takes about 3 years for an offense to be fully installed. The s**t is complex and it's that complexity that makes it tough to stop.

I think that is BS. Because any system can work simple or complex. You just need the players that can execute

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

I think that is BS. Because any system can work simple or complex. You just need the players that can execute

What simple offensive system works in the NFL? WCO, Air Coryell and Erhardt-Perkins comprise about 99% of the schemes ran in the NFL and all are complex offense's.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

I think that is BS. Because any system can work simple or complex. You just need the players that can execute

What simple offensive system works in the NFL? WCO, Air Coryell and Erhardt-Perkins comprise about 99% of the schemes ran in the NFL and all are complex offense's.

I would say Harbaughs/Romans offense is one

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

I would say Harbaughs/Romans offense is one

That was far from simple. That was a WCO with an incredibly deep run game. Then it added in a whole Read option section to that offense. I know people want to s**t on that scheme but it was incredibly deep.

The simplest offense id say take some hold in the NFL was Chip Kelly's offense. It hit for a year or two but has been somewhat phased out.

Originally posted by Niners816:

What simple offensive system works in the NFL? WCO, Air Coryell and Erhardt-Perkins comprise about 99% of the schemes ran in the NFL and all are complex offense's.

The Colts offense with Manning. That was pretty basic but they also had HOF level players at QB and WR and a crapload of other offensive talent.



The simpler your scheme is, the more dominant your individual players have to be. The more complex the scheme, the longer it will take for everyone to get on the same page. And your players better not be low football IQ types because the more complex the scheme, the more opportunities for error.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

The Colts offense with Manning. That was pretty basic but they also had HOF level players at QB and WR and a crapload of other offensive talent.



The simpler your scheme is, the more dominant your individual players have to be. The more complex the scheme, the longer it will take for everyone to get on the same page. And your players better not be low football IQ types because the more complex the scheme, the more opportunities for error.

Did they ever attach a title to the Tom Moore /Peyton offense? I've seen it called an Air Coryell. But Coryell's come in many flavors. Personally I always think of Gibbs and Martz's version and those were really complex.

I will agree though on the manning colts offense it was rather simple in concepts but was performed at virtuoso type levels.

Originally posted by Niners816:
Did they ever attach a title to the Tom Moore /Peyton offense? I've seen it called an Air Coryell. But Coryell's come in many flavors. Personally I always think of Gibbs and Martz's version and those were really complex.

I will agree though on the manning colts offense it was rather simple in concepts but was performed at virtuoso type levels.

The way Tom Moore described their offensive approach was "if I know exactly where the airport is and you think you know where the airport is, which one of us is most likely to get there first?" They weren't looking to outsmart teams, they were just executing at a ridiculously high level and it worked for them but it only worked because they had players like Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edgerrin James.....etc. They executed that offense perfectly and Manning was the ultimate orchestrator.

I think even Chip Kelly's offense could excel in the NFL if he had a top 3 QB and an offense loaded with talent, much like he had that first year in Philly minus the top 3 QB.

With Shanahan's offense, as we've seen in the past, you don't necessarily need elite players at every single position, you do need a highly intelligent and decisive quarterback, smart and quick-footed OL's, quick, decisive RB's......etc. It takes a long time to fully install but once everyone is on the same page it can be highly effective even without overwhelming talent.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

The way Tom Moore described their offensive approach was "if I know exactly where the airport is and you think you know where the airport is, which one of us is most likely to get there first?" They weren't looking to outsmart teams, they were just executing at a ridiculously high level and it worked for them but it only worked because they had players like Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edgerrin James.....etc. They executed that offense perfectly and Manning was the ultimate orchestrator.

I think even Chip Kelly's offense could excel in the NFL if he had a top 3 QB and an offense loaded with talent, much like he had that first year in Philly minus the top 3 QB.

With Shanahan's offense, as we've seen in the past, you don't necessarily need elite players at every single position, you do need a highly intelligent and decisive quarterback, smart and quick-footed OL's, quick, decisive RB's......etc. It takes a long time to fully install but once everyone is on the same page it can be highly effective even without overwhelming talent.

My comfort with Kyle's offense is that we know the system is sound and have seen it work for 2+ decades if you just want to count his father and Kubiak's flavor. I'm expecting extreme growing pains this season.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Niners816:
Did they ever attach a title to the Tom Moore /Peyton offense? I've seen it called an Air Coryell. But Coryell's come in many flavors. Personally I always think of Gibbs and Martz's version and those were really complex.

I will agree though on the manning colts offense it was rather simple in concepts but was performed at virtuoso type levels.

The way Tom Moore described their offensive approach was "if I know exactly where the airport is and you think you know where the airport is, which one of us is most likely to get there first?" They weren't looking to outsmart teams, they were just executing at a ridiculously high level and it worked for them but it only worked because they had players like Peyton Manning, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edgerrin James.....etc. They executed that offense perfectly and Manning was the ultimate orchestrator.

I think even Chip Kelly's offense could excel in the NFL if he had a top 3 QB and an offense loaded with talent, much like he had that first year in Philly minus the top 3 QB.

With Shanahan's offense, as we've seen in the past, you don't necessarily need elite players at every single position, you do need a highly intelligent and decisive quarterback, smart and quick-footed OL's, quick, decisive RB's......etc. It takes a long time to fully install but once everyone is on the same page it can be highly effective even without overwhelming talent.

It looks like Shanahan likes quick smart players, and I'm just a bit worried that they will get overpowered by strong talented defenses in the playoffs. My hope is that he also develops a very strong and talented defense to offset that. I think he's pretty smart to have chosen a modern version of Seiferts defense for his team, but it still bugs me that he could not run it in the fourth quarter in the super bowl.