49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by BillRing49:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Originally posted by BillRing49:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:

Originally posted by Fanaticofnfl:

Originally posted by AlexCat49er:
lol Shanahan has already lost as many regular season games as Harbaugh did his entire first year here. Our last 3 coaches, including Shanahan, have not won as many games as Harbaugh did in his worst season COMBINED. Yet, everyone seems to hate Harbaugh here. Makes no sense.

TrumpWrong.gif

Harbaugh walked into a great situation roster wise. Why do people not see that?

Because they're stupid.

The facts are that he took a team that was 6-10 the year before and hadn't been to the playoffs in 9 years and took them to 3 straight NFC Championships and a SuperBowl. He went 8-8 the year he was fired during the season. After he left, the team went 5-11 then 2-14 and now 0-3. Results are what matter. The rest is just speculation and opinion.

The facts? Our 2010 roster was full of talent. The 2016 roster was not. Denying this is dumb.

In retrospect it was full of talent. When Harbaugh took over, there was no one who thought he could take that roster to the NFC Championship. People picked against us all year. That is what made the wins so sweet. Whether the roster was talented or not, they didn't win before and they had a losing culture. It takes more than talent to win. Turning around a losing culture usually takes time. With Harbaugh, it is pretty much instantaneous. Just look at Stanford. Supposedly no one could win at Stanford, academic standards were too high, etc. Michigan was turned around year 1. Denying the record of that man is dumb.

Originally posted by BillRing49:
In retrospect it was full of talent. When Harbaugh took over, there was no one who thought he could take that roster to the NFC Championship. People picked against us all year. That is what made the wins so sweet. Whether the roster was talented or not, they didn't win before and they had a losing culture. It takes more than talent to win. Turning around a losing culture usually takes time. With Harbaugh, it is pretty much instantaneous. Just look at Stanford. Supposedly no one could win at Stanford, academic standards were too high, etc. Michigan was turned around year 1. Denying the record of that man is dumb.

Quote of the century

Originally posted by NinersFTW:

Quote of the century

I and many others wish we had Harbaugh back, but unfortunately you can't reverse time. I wish we still had aldon, and several other players too but looks like they ain't coming back. If there is anything positive it is hopefully stupid Jed is less stupid now. The structure that Jed set up for Kyle might bring more success in the future, but only time will tell. This is the structure Harbaugh would have had great success in, I believe, and would have been the most stable. Ray Rhoads came back as a coach after leaving us, who knows, maybe even Harbaugh - but for that to happen I think there needs to be a change in ownership. Oh well we shall see...

No one should want Harbaugh back as HC at this point because that would mean Lynch and Shanahan failed. We should a all want Lynch and Shanahan to be running this thing for 20+ years.

Originally posted by NinersFTW:
Fact - everyone hated Alex Smith until Harbaugh arrived. Harbaugh changed that. Andy Reid continued it. Assessing the talent on the roster with the benefit of hindsight is disingenuous.

A fact should be...factual. I did not hate Alex Smith until Harbaugh. I wasn't happy with Nolan. Or Singletary. But I did not blame the QB for bad coaching. So Smith being a very good QB and successful coincided with good coaching? Wow! How'd that happen?

Harbaugh was a very good coach in many ways--motivation, gathering good assistants to him, overall team day to day management. But he wasn't not a good coach in other ways--dealing with management, game/time management, sideline temperament, passing game development.

Sadly, we don't really know how much of the negative aspects of his coaching were due to undermining by management. A lot? A bit? How much of Harbaugh's success is due to good organizations? Stanford was stocked but JH was a dedicated recruiter with an NFL pedigree. The niners were a pretty good team talentwise under Singletary...just not well coached.

If I wanted to turn around a team though, I wouldn't hesitate to hire Harbaugh as my HC...and then hope he wouldn't self destruct too quickly.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NinersFTW:
Fact - everyone hated Alex Smith until Harbaugh arrived. Harbaugh changed that. Andy Reid continued it. Assessing the talent on the roster with the benefit of hindsight is disingenuous.

A fact should be...factual. I did not hate Alex Smith until Harbaugh. I wasn't happy with Nolan. Or Singletary. But I did not blame the QB for bad coaching. So Smith being a very good QB and successful coincided with good coaching? Wow! How'd that happen?

Harbaugh was a very good coach in many ways--motivation, gathering good assistants to him, overall team day to day management. But he wasn't not a good coach in other ways--dealing with management, game/time management, sideline temperament, passing game development.

Sadly, we don't really know how much of the negative aspects of his coaching were due to undermining by management. A lot? A bit? How much of Harbaugh's success is due to good organizations? Stanford was stocked but JH was a dedicated recruiter with an NFL pedigree. The niners were a pretty good team talentwise under Singletary...just not well coached.

If I wanted to turn around a team though, I wouldn't hesitate to hire Harbaugh as my HC...and then hope he wouldn't self destruct too quickly.

Hindsight is 20/20, so I concede that point. But I think Harbaugh would have succeeded in this structure. Harbaugh having total control would have lasted a lot longer than 4+ years. I think the failure was on Jed. He set up the split power structure of Baalke at GM and Harbaugh at HC and him in the middle. I don't think Harbaugh would self destruct under this kind of structure because it would be him all over the place. That is a good thing - and perhaps a bad thing in other respects. But having said that, I think Kyle is younger than Harbaugh, has a higher ceiling than Harbaugh, and potentially better coach than Harbaugh. And most importantly he has the structure he needs that Harbaugh never had to make it in the NFL, as far as the 49er organization is concerned.

Harbaugh's first head coaching gig was with the University of San Diego and he was around 40 at the time. His record wasn't bad, but it wasn't stellar. Kyle's around 37 with his first head coaching gig with any team college or pro, and so at a much higher level of competition and he is younger than Harbaugh. If Kyle succeeds as a 49er coach, he could be coaching here for a very very long time. Add 20 years to Kyle's coaching resume and he'll only be 57.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Hindsight is 20/20, so I concede that point. But I think Harbaugh would have succeeded in this structure. Harbaugh having total control would have lasted a lot longer than 4+ years. I think the failure was on Jed. He set up the split power structure of Baalke at GM and Harbaugh at HC and him in the middle. I don't think Harbaugh would self destruct under this kind of structure because it would be him all over the place. That is a good thing - and perhaps a bad thing in other respects. But having said that, I think Kyle is younger than Harbaugh, has a higher ceiling than Harbaugh, and potentially better coach than Harbaugh. And most importantly he has the structure he needs that Harbaugh never had to make it in the NFL, as far as the 49er organization is concerned.

Harbaugh's first head coaching gig was with the University of San Diego and he was around 40 at the time. His record wasn't bad, but it wasn't stellar. Kyle's around 37 with his first head coaching gig with any team college or pro, and so at a much higher level of competition and he is younger than Harbaugh. If Kyle succeeds as a 49er coach, he could be coaching here for a very very long time. Add 20 years to Kyle's coaching resume and he'll only be 57.

I have no problem placing much of the blame for the Baalke/Harbaugh mess at Jed's feet. He was/is a very weak leader and was totally unprepared to deal with a guy like Harbaugh. That said...

My understanding from Stanford folks is that he was self destructing there before his jump to the NFL. They put up with him because he won...how long they would have continued allowing his antics is only a guess. I don't have a public source for this, just someone close to assistant ADs at Stanford. Is there always turmoil in athletic departments? Probably...and Harbaugh no doubt bumped heads with people who were trying to control--recruiting, team events, team rules--all things he is seriously adamant about controling.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Hindsight is 20/20, so I concede that point. But I think Harbaugh would have succeeded in this structure. Harbaugh having total control would have lasted a lot longer than 4+ years. I think the failure was on Jed. He set up the split power structure of Baalke at GM and Harbaugh at HC and him in the middle. I don't think Harbaugh would self destruct under this kind of structure because it would be him all over the place. That is a good thing - and perhaps a bad thing in other respects. But having said that, I think Kyle is younger than Harbaugh, has a higher ceiling than Harbaugh, and potentially better coach than Harbaugh. And most importantly he has the structure he needs that Harbaugh never had to make it in the NFL, as far as the 49er organization is concerned.

Harbaugh's first head coaching gig was with the University of San Diego and he was around 40 at the time. His record wasn't bad, but it wasn't stellar. Kyle's around 37 with his first head coaching gig with any team college or pro, and so at a much higher level of competition and he is younger than Harbaugh. If Kyle succeeds as a 49er coach, he could be coaching here for a very very long time. Add 20 years to Kyle's coaching resume and he'll only be 57.

I will respectfully disagree on this take. I remain adamant and no one can convince me otherwise, unless you are Bill Belichick, a head coach should never have complete control, final say on everything. It is too big of a job to scout college players, practice squads, free agents, AND manage the day to day duties of being an NFL head coach. Jed had the right structure in mind, it just turned out that Baalke was an arrogant, power hungry general manager who couldn't compartmentalize his ego to work with his coaches. For that matter it could be argued that Harbaugh suffers from the same flaws.

2ndly, I like Shanahan and believe in what he brings to the table, but lets pump the brakes on saying he'll be better than Harbaugh even if that's just an opinion. Stop comparing him to Harbaugh, let him succeed or fail on his own.

I don't think York necessarily wanted to be on the middle between Harbaugh and Baalke, at least to the degree it evolved into. When one has to pick sides one can pick wrongly, and he did by backing up Baalke. Which I can understand since he knew Baalke much longer. By the time Kelly and Baalke were needing mediation mid last season he certainly didn't want to be in that role again, hence the emphasis on the GM/HC relationship this off season.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
I have no problem placing much of the blame for the Baalke/Harbaugh mess at Jed's feet. He was/is a very weak leader and was totally unprepared to deal with a guy like Harbaugh. That said...

My understanding from Stanford folks is that he was self destructing there before his jump to the NFL. They put up with him because he won...how long they would have continued allowing his antics is only a guess. I don't have a public source for this, just someone close to assistant ADs at Stanford. Is there always turmoil in athletic departments? Probably...and Harbaugh no doubt bumped heads with people who were trying to control--recruiting, team events, team rules--all things he is seriously adamant about controling.

Heh, I found some articles on how difficult he could be. Too bad Jed wasn't a stronger personality to handle Jim's quirks. Oh well, I think Kyle's personality probably fits better with Jed's personality. Key is that if Jed trusts Kyle and Likes Kyle, that will go a long way to having a successful relationship with his head coach and whether his head coach will have good success. Continuity is the key and if Jed and Kyle like and trust each other, the long term success of the ShanaLynch program has a much higher chance of coming to reality.

Jim's quirkiness on display....

Harbaugh is an early riser, a believer that mornings are a time for labor. And so last fall it wasn't shocking to those who know him well that several times he showed up in the office of San Francisco 49ers CEO Jed York at just past daybreak wanting to resolve an issue right now this very second.
[...]
Midway through last season, 49ers general manager Trent Baalke called a staffer on another team. At the time, San Francisco's season was falling apart—the Niners would finish 8-8—and Baalke's relationship with Harbaugh had frayed to the extent that the two were known to ride elevators together in silence and not make eye contact.
"I just can't deal with Jim anymore," Baalke told his friend, a veteran front-office employee of an NFL team who relayed the conversation to Bleacher Report. "This guy is a nut. Every day he's b***hing at me about something new. It's this, it's that. He's wearing all of us out. He's grinding us down."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2555507-why-jim-harbaugh-and-michigan-may-not-live-happily-ever-after

Harbaugh's personality can wear on people. A former NFL teammate told Anderson:

"You can't even have long meetings with him because his mind will start to wander and you'll have no freaking idea what he's talking about. His personality and his weirdness wear people down over time, and after four, five years, you just don't want to deal with the guy anymore."

http://www.businessinsider.com/hilarious-story-about-jim-harbaughs-crazy-intensity-2015-9



Harbaugh defying tradition and goes with no tie and suit in the Coaches' picture. http://arizonasports.com/story/1186475/harbaugh-wears-what-you-would-expect-him-to-wear-at-big-ten-media-day/

Originally posted by FL9er:
I will respectfully disagree on this take. I remain adamant and no one can convince me otherwise, unless you are Bill Belichick, a head coach should never have complete control, final say on everything. It is too big of a job to scout college players, practice squads, free agents, AND manage the day to day duties of being an NFL head coach. Jed had the right structure in mind, it just turned out that Baalke was an arrogant, power hungry general manager who couldn't compartmentalize his ego to work with his coaches. For that matter it could be argued that Harbaugh suffers from the same flaws.

2ndly, I like Shanahan and believe in what he brings to the table, but lets pump the brakes on saying he'll be better than Harbaugh even if that's just an opinion. Stop comparing him to Harbaugh, let him succeed or fail on his own.

Key is *good coach* - this wont work for an average coach like Nolan or Singletary. Walsh and Seifert operated under the current kind of organizational hierarchy and generated 5 championships. Same with Bellicheat. His GM is basically an assistant talent scout. Kraft, as a new owner, talked to Eddie and Eddie said that's how the 49ers ran things.

Originally posted by captveg:
I don't think York necessarily wanted to be on the middle between Harbaugh and Baalke, at least to the degree it evolved into. When one has to pick sides one can pick wrongly, and he did by backing up Baalke. Which I can understand since he knew Baalke much longer. By the time Kelly and Baalke were needing mediation mid last season he certainly didn't want to be in that role again, hence the emphasis on the GM/HC relationship this off season.

I Agree. but Jed picked wrong, and for that, I'm pissed at him.

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

You cross the insult Rubicon when you start a conversation by saying I'm full of s**t then move on to imaginary posts I allegedly made.

The following is what you said in another thread, to which I have consistently responded is useless as it ignores context (doesn't consider the dumpster fire that is the offenses the 49ers faced in week one and two) and the sample size is too small. Even after three weeks all one can do, with absolute accuracy, is make comparisons to previous weeks / years...and speculate:

I mean, the most important thing in 2017 is getting this defense back on track and so far we're on that path.
Offense will come along when we get better players. We're going to take stock of what we have this year and address needs in the 2018 draft/free agency.
ENJOY the rebuild for crying out loud. Stop being butthurt because Kaepernick is gone. That's the only reason I can think of here. Seeing these people whine like this.
The best possible scenerio is that our defense plays well but we still end up with a good draft position. 2018 is going to be a much better QB class.
Go watch the Browns or Texans if you have a Watson/Kizer fetish. I'll be over here ENJOYING the rebuilding process.

As I said then, there was nothing to support your claim. The 49ers' defense was playing offenses, that at the time, were inept (at best). Your conclusion that the defense was back on track was utterly unsupportable. And then, after week three, it turned out to be woefully inaccurate.

Without even touching the single game stats I posted in the other thread, the current 49ers' defense ranks 25th in rush YPG, 15th in pass YPG, 22nd in total YPG, and finally 27th in points per game. Now, I won't ignore context like you do. I fully acknowledge the 49ers' offense has screwed them over. And consistently so. Injuries have hit the 49ers hard as well. But, that being said, there is nothing to support your claim that the defense is on the right track (comparing week to week - year to year is an apples to oranges comparison).

Regurgitating that it's a rebuild year in every thread doesn't change anything. Everyone here understands that. That thing you mentioned earlier...objectivity...well, here it is good sir, in spades. Feel free to try it.

You said

Originally posted by Polkadots:

You're so full of s**t, man. After the Seattle game you had no defensive worries. 49ers' were lights out, able to rush RW, stop the run, citing rush YPC etc.

Like I said, didn't happen. You're making s**t up. Quite the ego you have there. Yes I said our D was on the right track after the first two games. It was objectively better than the 2016 defense. Yes I was "high and mighty" after reading posts saying we hired the wrong coach, that Lynch drafted the wrong people etc.

Yes I think it's too early to judge this rebuild. Yes I think people wanting a Harbaugh like turnaround don't understand football.

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

You cross the insult Rubicon when you start a conversation by saying I'm full of s**t then move on to imaginary posts I allegedly made.

The following is what you said in another thread, to which I have consistently responded is useless as it ignores context (doesn't consider the dumpster fire that is the offenses the 49ers faced in week one and two) and the sample size is too small. Even after three weeks all one can do, with absolute accuracy, is make comparisons to previous weeks / years...and speculate:

I mean, the most important thing in 2017 is getting this defense back on track and so far we're on that path.
Offense will come along when we get better players. We're going to take stock of what we have this year and address needs in the 2018 draft/free agency.
ENJOY the rebuild for crying out loud. Stop being butthurt because Kaepernick is gone. That's the only reason I can think of here. Seeing these people whine like this.
The best possible scenerio is that our defense plays well but we still end up with a good draft position. 2018 is going to be a much better QB class.
Go watch the Browns or Texans if you have a Watson/Kizer fetish. I'll be over here ENJOYING the rebuilding process.

As I said then, there was nothing to support your claim. The 49ers' defense was playing offenses, that at the time, were inept (at best). Your conclusion that the defense was back on track was utterly unsupportable. And then, after week three, it turned out to be woefully inaccurate.

Without even touching the single game stats I posted in the other thread, the current 49ers' defense ranks 25th in rush YPG, 15th in pass YPG, 22nd in total YPG, and finally 27th in points per game. Now, I won't ignore context like you do. I fully acknowledge the 49ers' offense has screwed them over. And consistently so. Injuries have hit the 49ers hard as well. But, that being said, there is nothing to support your claim that the defense is on the right track (comparing week to week - year to year is an apples to oranges comparison).

Regurgitating that it's a rebuild year in every thread doesn't change anything. Everyone here understands that. That thing you mentioned earlier...objectivity...well, here it is good sir, in spades. Feel free to try it.

There's absolutely nothing in LP's post claiming that the defense had arrived after the first two games. Being on the right track (which they are relative to last year) is not mean he thinks it's a finished product by any means.

Of course not. He's making things up because his feelings are hurt.

At the end of the day the point is we as fans have to be patient. The 2016 roster was the worst roster in the NFL. We had the worst defense and our offense was also close to last. It was a stick in the mud. There's no comparison to the 2010 roster (a roster built with years of early first round picks).

Baalke did a horrible job of restocking this team as players left, retired or busted out. This is a total rebuild with dozens of new players learning new systems on both sides of the ball. We have five draft picks in the first three rounds and 100 million cap space in 2018. People will be justified talking serious trash if we fail in the 2018 draft/season.

I say our defense doing better this year is most important because we've spent so many first round picks on defense. If our defense fails all year it's BAD news.

The offense on the other hand will be much different next year after the draft and free agency. This should be common sense. Garcon, Juice, Taylor and Kittle will probably be the only new guys on this team past 2018. We're going to get a QB, WR and at least another gaurd in 2018. I think there will be 3-4 new starters on offense in 2018. Maybe Hoyer will play as a rookie develops, maybe not.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:

Originally posted by Follower:

KS has some potential.... Nothing wrong with also saying that McVay is very impressive and that the 49ers might have missed on him.

Mcvay inherited a #1 overall pick at QB and built the deepest WR group in the NFL because the Rams had already built their defense. Also, the Rams were not the worst team in football last year.

The Rams underperformed on offense largley because of Jeff Fisher and a lack of offensive minds. Their offense looks good this year because the talent and coaching is there. We lack talent on offense right now and still hung with them yesterday. Even with Hoyer almost throwing a pick-6 the first play of the game. We gave them a 7 point lead after 13 seconds. If that didn't happen we win. If the ref didn't call offensive PI we win.

We almost won that game with a bridge QB, poor o-line and one good WR.

The only crying that makes sense after yesterday's game is the fact we couldn't generate a pass rush. This is going to be a major need in 2018 along with QB, WR and o-line.

It's hard to judge our CB's when there's no pass rush. Give any number of QB's five seconds to pass and they'll carve you up. Our LB's gave up some big passing plays because Foster is out. We were also missing our star safety.

I was pleased with our defense first two games and pleased with our offense yesterday. This is a newborn baby of a team. People need to lower expectations and save their HARSH criticism for 2018 after we have an opportunity to get more talent on the team.

The rams situation reminds me a little bit of the similarities of our 2011 season - an offensive mind like Harbaugh taking over a defensive mind like Singletary. (McVay and Fisher) Harbaugh took us to the playoffs, it remains to be seen if McVay can do the same with the Rams.

As for us, if we can put together both sides of the ball, then we just might start winning some games. I hope John Lynch's scouts are hard at work looking at next years talent and seeing who can come in and help this ball club next year. This next game is another test of where the 49ers are offensively and defensively.

Ya, the Rams roster is ahead of ours as far as talent. They were mismanaged by Fisher on offense BUT they also did a great job of getting Goff WR's/blockers this year.

They did this via the draft/free agency because their roster was further along and they were ready to start competing for a playoff run.

If we can get a QB in here we'll be doing the same. We'll be focusing on offense. This is another reason why we need our defense to improve this year. We do need a pass rusher, maybe a CB but our offense still needs QB/WR/gaurd. Maybe center.

People expecting Shanahan/Lynch to turn this around in one offseason are pushing extremely unrealistic expectations because they never liked them to begin with. They're looking for reasons to complain.

Does this mean there are no reasons to complain? I don't think so. I'll complain about the lack of pass rush, poor blocking, bad QB play and clutch drops but I'm also aware of the fact we have tons of draft capital and cap space for 2018.

I'm not huge on the Thomas pick and don't like Armstead (because of his draft spot) but I can't crap on the Thomas pick yet because it's way too early. We obviously neded a pure pass rusher. Maybe the Thomas pick was a mistake, maybe not. Maybe they're going to let Armstead go after this season?

Shanahan is also learning how to be a head coach while calling plays on offense. It's not easy. Especially with poor QB play, drops and poor blocking.

People just need to give this time. If we suck mid season 2018 I'll jump on the "hater" wagon but it's way too early to freak out right now. Way too early.

Originally posted by LeProfessionnel:
Ya, the Rams roster is ahead of ours as far as talent. They were mismanaged by Fisher on offense BUT they also did a great job of getting Goff WR's/blockers this year.

They did this via the draft/free agency because their roster was further along and they were ready to start competing for a playoff run.

If we can get a QB in here we'll be doing the same. We'll be focusing on offense. This is another reason why we need our defense to improve this year. We do need a pass rusher, maybe a CB but our offense still needs QB/WR/gaurd. Maybe center.

People expecting Shanahan/Lynch to turn this around in one offseason are pushing extremely unrealistic expectations because they never liked them to begin with. They're looking for reasons to complain.

Does this mean there are no reasons to complain? I don't think so. I'll complain about the lack of pass rush, poor blocking, bad QB play and clutch drops but I'm also aware of the fact we have tons of draft capital and cap space for 2018.

I'm not huge on the Thomas pick and don't like Armstead (because of his draft spot) but I can't crap on the Thomas pick yet because it's way too early. We obviously neded a pure pass rusher. Maybe the Thomas pick was a mistake, maybe not. Maybe they're going to let Armstead go after this season?

Shanahan is also learning how to be a head coach while calling plays on offense. It's not easy. Especially with poor QB play, drops and poor blocking.

People just need to give this time. If we suck mid season 2018 I'll jump on the "hater" wagon but it's way too early to freak out right now. Way too early.

I agree. It took several seasons for Jim to turn it around at the University of San Diego. That was a much lower level of competition than what the NFL provides.

Not only is Kyle a first time rookie head coach, but his GM is a rookie too. If anybody expected to be no growing pains and an acclimatization by the rookies, (both players and coaches) they are living in La La land and deserve the disappointment they get for having unrealistic expectations. It's funny all these fans who have unrealistic expectations come b***hing and moaning to the WebZone after a loss, and seeing them wanting to kill themselves for having such a crappy team. It's almost comical, but hey it's their life not mine, if they want to be artificially miserable, by all means I'll let themselves make themselves miserable. Me, I'm happy Hoyer is playing better and seeing the improvements in most if not all areas on our team from last year.