49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by miked1978:
Am I in the ride Matt Stafford nuts thread?

You guys would flip out if Jimmy G threw 17 interceptions in one season.

Not if that comes with 41 touchdowns. Lay off the ganja.

Funny if Tartt didn't drop the interception which was a horrible throw by Stafford we wouldn't be having this conversation. Funny how one throw changes the trajectory of everything.

If it was Jimmy who would have thrown that ball behind to OBJ (Deebo) which caused him to tear his ACL yall would be unbearable.

Stafford is better then Jimmy yes but he still isn't a top 5 QB in this league. It's obvious he too needs a good team around him to win.

Name one person who said he was top 5. The highest I've ranked him here is 8-12. He's at the top of tier 2.

Originally posted by thl408:
Such a simple way to view things. Whatever your profession is, have you achieved the pinnacle of it? If not, does that make you a failure/loser at it?

apparently...BUT if you did it once a decade ago you're still the man I guess...never mind not being able to do enough to even get close to that again.

based on this reasoning, Joe Flacco/Dilfer/Johnson are all better than Dan Marino and Jim Kelly

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
He's a loser until he wins the big game.

Oh NOW he's a loser

Originally posted by Silky:
You have a really sad way of looking at things and are probably disappointed a lot. Marino was elite and was a winner. So was Frank Gore at the end of his career (with us).

I'm cooking chicken parmesan tonight. Many people told me it's the best they've ever had. I know it's not up to the level of a professional chef, but in many people's eyes my chicken parm is a winner. Jimmy G is technically a winner. He wins more than loses. He would like my chicken parm.

brah I make some damn good chicken parm

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I don't think anyone would care since we would have won the super bowl... that's kind of the point.

So i can go look in the Jimmy G thread and see no negative posts from you prior to February?

What is that supposed to mean? Lol

Nothing you've said so far has made any sense.

Stafford threw 17 picks (5 more than Jimmy) but he also threw for 41 TDs (21 more touchdowns than Jimmy).

Who wouldn't take 21 TDs more touchdowns if it came with only 5 more turnovers?

Two different O's with two different demands of the QB and different WR asks as well. Kupp is open every play whereby Deebo excels more at trucking people on the ground then taking a well deserved snap off to catch a breath. Your counting stats don't apply. Imagine comparing a starting pitchers K's to a relief pitcher. The starter has like 180 Ks the reliever like 50. Yet it's a misleading comparison. Better stat is K/9 which accounts for innings pitched. It would be the only sincere comparison.

With that in mind.

JG rating 98.9
MS rating 91.1

Career rating which is an all encompassing look at passer metrics with volume accounted for.

First of all, passer rating doesn't take into account RAC. Second, career rating? What do you think Jimmy's career rating would be if he played 12 years in Detroit? THIS season, Stafford's rating this season is a few points better than Jimmy's despite Jimmy once again getting the most YAC per reception than any other QB in the league (Stafford is 12th). Total QBR does, and Stafford's was 10.4 points higher than Jimmy's this season. Stafford threw 41 touchdowns. Jimmy threw 20. There is no comparison. Stafford is as close to Mahomes as Jimmy is to Stafford. There's the elite QBs, then there's a huge drop off, and that's where Stafford is. Then there's another huge drop off, and that's where Jimmy is. Then you have, just below Jimmy, right after Tannehill, another huge drop, and down there is where all the back ups who are forced to be starters due to the QB shortage are.

You need to stop. This is bad for your mental health. Stafford is better than Jimmy. That's an IMMUTABLE FACT OF REALITY. Every time you try to act like they're the same, a truth fairy commits suicide. You want to see these glorious creatures dying?

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
That's why I said it wasn't fair. But it's reality. It's how the public will percieve them. And Shanahan will be perceived as that unless he wins the big game. It's actually mandatory if he wants public perception of him to change.

No it's how you perceive them lol...not everything is black and white. You don't win it all for a decade you're just as much a loser as anyone else. You don't get to the big game to even have a chance to win or lose you're a loser/choker. If you go .500 in a season that's choking on the whole damn season. If you miss the playoffs that's choking. Your beloved Harbs is the king of choking doing it in both the NFL and college

Tomlin choked in the first playoff game this yr, Carroll choked by getting last in the division, Reid choked in the AFCC with the best QB on the planet, Payton choked for a decade with Brees and retired. Lafleur has "choked" since he got to GB with the 4x MVP Rogers. John H choked not getting in the playoffs with a former MVP QB, McDermott choked by not telling Allen to pick heads, Taylor just choked with Burrow etc. Only one HC didn't "choke" this yr and it was McVay who needed to go all in and get Stafford to make it happen....

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
First of all, passer rating doesn't take into account RAC. Second, career rating? What do you think Jimmy's career rating would be if he played 12 years in Detroit? THIS season, Stafford's rating this season is a few points better than Jimmy's despite Jimmy once again getting the most YAC per reception than any other QB in the league (Stafford is 12th). Total QBR does, and Stafford's was 10.4 points higher than Jimmy's this season. Stafford threw 41 touchdowns. Jimmy threw 20. There is no comparison. Stafford is as close to Mahomes as Jimmy is to Stafford. There's the elite QBs, then there's a huge drop off, and that's where Stafford is. Then there's another huge drop off, and that's where Jimmy is. Then you have, just below Jimmy, right after Tannehill, another huge drop, and down there is where all the back ups who are forced to be starters due to the QB shortage are.

You need to stop. This is bad for your mental health. Stafford is better than Jimmy. That's an IMMUTABLE FACT OF REALITY. Every time you try to act like they're the same, a truth fairy commits suicide. You want to see these glorious creatures dying?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by Waterbear:
I don't think anyone would care since we would have won the super bowl... that's kind of the point.

So i can go look in the Jimmy G thread and see no negative posts from you prior to February?

What is that supposed to mean? Lol

Nothing you've said so far has made any sense.

Stafford threw 17 picks (5 more than Jimmy) but he also threw for 41 TDs (21 more touchdowns than Jimmy).

Who wouldn't take 21 TDs more touchdowns if it came with only 5 more turnovers?

They had damn near the same INT % this yr....difference is the TD to INT % and the fact that one dude can make big time throws that make up for same gunslinger dumb moments and the other can't.

Dude brings up "throwing behind OBJ" as the reason he got hurt lol. f**king turf fields and that s**t hit him in the numbers, it was a barely behind him. How often do we see Jimmy throw high/low/behind our receivers? s**t go ask Kittle how he felt after that high throw on a screen pass. Deebo got damn near knocked out with Jimmy tossing a injury ball vs LA.

This is the difference. Jimmy isn't great enough to not be good. Stafford is. In other words, when Stafford s**ts the bed, he can uns**t it. When Jimmy s**ts the bed, he needs someone else to change his sheets for him (for example, the end of the Cowboys game. He needed Prescott and the Cowboys coaches to s**t their own bed even worse than Jimmy's flagrant attempt to steal defeat from the jaws of victory).

Stafford will throw mindnumbing picks, just like Jimmy. The difference is when the Super Bowl is on the line, Stafford drives his team to a win and Jimmy chokes.

Thank GOD we can move on from mediocre, bottom of tier 2 quarterbacking in the next few years, with Trey Lance. And I can't wait for all these delusional people to disappear, and they definitely will. And if they don't, I'll be very happy to remind them of the things they said about Trey.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
That's why I said it wasn't fair. But it's reality. It's how the public will percieve them. And Shanahan will be perceived as that unless he wins the big game. It's actually mandatory if he wants public perception of him to change.

No it's how you perceive them lol...not everything is black and white. You don't win it all for a decade you're just as much a loser as anyone else. You don't get to the big game to even have a chance to win or lose you're a loser/choker. If you go .500 in a season that's choking on the whole damn season. If you miss the playoffs that's choking. Your beloved Harbs is the king of choking doing it in both the NFL and college

Tomlin choked in the first playoff game this yr, Carroll choked by getting last in the division, Reid choked in the AFCC with the best QB on the planet, Payton choked for a decade with Brees and retired. Lafleur has "choked" since he got to GB with the 4x MVP Rogers. John H choked not getting in the playoffs with a former MVP QB, McDermott choked by not telling Allen to pick heads, Taylor just choked with Burrow etc. Only one HC didn't "choke" this yr and it was McVay who needed to go all in and get Stafford to make it happen....

You guys are in denial. Bill walsh Tom brady, Montana will always be perceived as winners. Why? Because they won championships. Nobody is f**king analyzing why schottenheimer never won the big game, and no one is even comparing/analyzing him to walsh and belicheck. Why? Because he never could win the big game. So in about 30 years everyone will forget who marty schottenheimer was, but walsh and Bill belicheck will live on forever. Because theyve won the big games.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
You guys are in denial. Bill walsh Tom brady, Montana will always be perceived as winners. Why? Because they won championships. Nobody is f**king analyzing why schottenheimer never won the big game, and no one is even comparing/analyzing him to walsh and belicheck. Why? Because he never could win the big game. So in about 30 years everyone will forget who marty schottenheimer was, but walsh and Bill belicheck will live on forever. Because theyve won the big games.

Bill didn't do it in Cleveland. So how does one magically go from loser to winner?

What would you say the accuracy of Browns fans saying Bill would never amount to anything ala 9moon is?

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Just pointing out it's not a real comp in my mind a pass heavy O's TD passes vs our run heavy TD passes. That's like saying look some slugger has way more homers than Ichiro. Doesn't mean he's better. He's just asked to fulfill a different role than Ichiro. Better comp for Ichiro or any ballplayer would be something like WAR. QB rating is kinda like that for QBs.

Then just use TD% and INT% to compare

Stafford's TD% was 6.8% and his INT% was 2.8
Jimmy's TD% was 4.5% and his INT% was 2.7

In the Red Zone:
Stafford: 112 pass attempts, 32 TDs
Jimmy: 55 pass attempts, 15 TDs

Rams: 201 plays, 113 passes
49ers: 125 plays, 63 passes

Total Plays:
Rams: 1058, 607 passes (57%)
49ers: 1046, 514 passes (49%)

outside of the RZ stat (good add) the rest doesn't really affect TD % and none of it really affects INT % IMO. You could add that Jimmy having a lower IAY and still having damn near the same INT% as Stafford looks worse too.

TD% is the % of TDs thrown when attempting a pass. Same with INT % it's all relative.

Stafford was 2nd in the league in TD % (Jimmy was 13th)

Yeah the RZ stuff was all I had in my original post and just wanted to add the rest for comparison.

80% of Staffords TDs came in the RZ and he had almost as many RZ passes as the 49ers had RZ plays.

That's what happens when you're not stagnating between the 20s due to QB incompetence. Stafford was first in the league at converting first downs on third down passes. On third and LONG, Stafford was again first in the entire league at converting, at a rate of 44.9%. Jimmy was 34%. On third and short, Stafford was 2nd in the league in converting 1st downs. Jimmy wasn't even top 20.

The Rams were 5th in the NFL at third down conversions. The 49ers were 14th. The main reason is the quarterback.

Third down passer rating:
Stafford: 104.3
Jimmy: 96.3

Completion percentage when the game is late and close for 2021:
Stafford: 76.9, 2nd in the league
Jimmy: 63.5, 17th in the league.

Also,
Stafford red zone passer rating: 100.7
Jimmy red zone passer rating: 98.7

How do you people claim the two are the same and then look at the mirror with a straight face? There is literally nothing a QB does that Stafford isn't better at, including most importantly, 4th quarter comebacks in the post-season.

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Two different O's with two different demands of the QB and different WR asks as well. Kupp is open every play whereby Deebo excels more at trucking people on the ground then taking a well deserved snap off to catch a breath. Your counting stats don't apply. Imagine comparing a starting pitchers K's to a relief pitcher. The starter has like 180 Ks the reliever like 50. Yet it's a misleading comparison. Better stat is K/9 which accounts for innings pitched. It would be the only sincere comparison.

With that in mind.

JG rating 98.9
MS rating 91.1

Career rating which is an all encompassing look at passer metrics with volume accounted for.

BA was open all damn game vs LA...Jimmy went full simple jack on a handful of plays. You talk about Kupp being open all game, but disregard where a TON of Jimmy's yards came from...yards after the catch. Jimmy lead the league in yards after the catch per completion. Stafford was 11th. Jimmy was 4th worse in AYTS (air yards to the sticks) Stafford was 4th best. Stafford was 3rd in completed air yards per completion. Jimmy 10th (which is actually high for him).

Why are you looking at career QB rating? We're talking about 2021 and Stafford playing for LA not the worst organization in football for a decade.

Stafford rating 102.9
Jimmy rating 98.7

Listen man they're simply different QBs with different skill sets and different ceilings. Is what it is...doesn't make Jimmy junk or anything. Stafford is just better than him and that's okay.

Stafford is better than Jimmy, but what I find interesting is that they needed every bit of that huge production out of him and Kupp to be SB champ.

If Stafford was on the Niners, would've been an easier SB ring for him, by far. He has the talent to create production through the air, and the run game would likely be even better than it has been and he could've leaned on that to guarantee wins if needed. The Rams really don't have the 49ers run game, and hence where I think his turnovers came from.

49ers really are that team. Smart NFL fans know this is the best team in the league if you remove the QB from it.

People talk about the Rams like they were some juggernaut. They aren't/weren't, and will never be.

This is correct. And Trey is going to be better than Stafford, because unlike Stafford (and Jimmy), Trey is not going to be a turnover machine.

EDIT - I'm not saying next year. But before he's done.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
This is the difference. Jimmy isn't great enough to not be good. Stafford is. In other words, when Stafford s**ts the bed, he can uns**t it. When Jimmy s**ts the bed, he needs someone else to change his sheets for him (for example, the end of the Cowboys game. He needed Prescott and the Cowboys coaches to s**t their own bed even worse than Jimmy's flagrant attempt to steal defeat from the jaws of victory).

Stafford will throw mindnumbing picks, just like Jimmy. The difference is when the Super Bowl is on the line, Stafford drives his team to a win and Jimmy chokes.

Thank GOD we can move on from mediocre, bottom of tier 2 quarterbacking in the next few years, with Trey Lance. And I can't wait for all these delusional people to disappear, and they definitely will. And if they don't, I'll be very happy to remind them of the things they said about Trey.

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by Bluesbro:
Kyle is about to unlock the full potential of his offense. Imagine the Falcon offense that Kyle was the architect of, but with a mobile QB. That offense was in the top 10 of all time. I believe Trey will be a superstar QB, and quicker than most think.

Easier said than done... will the KS10 followers ever point to the HC if Lance becomes the next Trubisky?

I already point to the head coach for not drafting Mahomes (which I complain about frequently) and not trading up to get Josh Allen (would have cost less than the Bills most likely).

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Two different O's with two different demands of the QB and different WR asks as well. Kupp is open every play whereby Deebo excels more at trucking people on the ground then taking a well deserved snap off to catch a breath. Your counting stats don't apply. Imagine comparing a starting pitchers K's to a relief pitcher. The starter has like 180 Ks the reliever like 50. Yet it's a misleading comparison. Better stat is K/9 which accounts for innings pitched. It would be the only sincere comparison.

With that in mind.

JG rating 98.9
MS rating 91.1

Career rating which is an all encompassing look at passer metrics with volume accounted for.

BA was open all damn game vs LA...Jimmy went full simple jack on a handful of plays. You talk about Kupp being open all game, but disregard where a TON of Jimmy's yards came from...yards after the catch. Jimmy lead the league in yards after the catch per completion. Stafford was 11th. Jimmy was 4th worse in AYTS (air yards to the sticks) Stafford was 4th best. Stafford was 3rd in completed air yards per completion. Jimmy 10th (which is actually high for him).

Why are you looking at career QB rating? We're talking about 2021 and Stafford playing for LA not the worst organization in football for a decade.

Stafford rating 102.9
Jimmy rating 98.7

Listen man they're simply different QBs with different skill sets and different ceilings. Is what it is...doesn't make Jimmy junk or anything. Stafford is just better than him and that's okay.

Stafford is better than Jimmy, but what I find interesting is that they needed every bit of that huge production out of him and Kupp to be SB champ.

If Stafford was on the Niners, would've been an easier SB ring for him, by far. He has the talent to create production through the air, and the run game would likely be even better than it has been and he could've leaned on that to guarantee wins if needed. The Rams really don't have the 49ers run game, and hence where I think his turnovers came from.

49ers really are that team. Smart NFL fans know this is the best team in the league if you remove the QB from it.

People talk about the Rams like they were some juggernaut. They aren't/weren't, and will never be.

This is correct. And Trey is going to be better than Stafford, because unlike Stafford (and Jimmy), Trey is not going to be a turnover machine.

EDIT - I'm not saying next year. But before he's done.

Trey increased his TOs by 200%