49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by susweel:
So according to many here these are things Shanny is not responsible for.

0-5 record
Crappy offense
Excessive penalties
Poor red zone offense
Poor 3rd down offense

And obviously the defense

Anything else ?

D is ranked 30th...

rankled 19th vs. the run. 32nd last year.. and that's without foster...

cc just needs to be put in timeout. seriously.

Originally posted by tankle104:
I really like Shanahan. Our team definitely has its issues right now, but overall we are an improvement from last couple of years, which a positive upside.

We still have a long way to go and our product on the field hasn't been great but at least we have been competitive.

Some time, development and talent acquiring.. we will be slappin mofos in no time!

nice! this^

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by jcs:
Gotta get a win soon...Dumbsula was 2-4 after 6 games...Chip 1-5...going 0-6 is technically heading in the wrong direction.....

I made it very clear, Shanahan has to be able to do better than Chip Kelly. Chip won 2 games and my target for Shanahan was 4 wins. Since we are looking at soon to be 0-6, it really doesn't look likely. But, he has to get 3 wins at least.

no, he doesn't. lol. to what, satisfy the fan base by having an extra win? a meaningless win that would only set our draft position back?

Originally posted by defenderDX:
no, he doesn't. lol. to what, satisfy the fan base by having an extra win? a meaningless win that would only set our draft position back?

Oh you can bet your as* it does to me.

You just want to tank right? Why didn't you say so from week 1? Let's not waste time here.

As long as the team continues to shows competitiveness, I think Shanny is ok.

Originally posted by paulk205:

Ok, so it's not his fault.

With that line of reasoning, what is a HC there for? To walk up and down the sideline wearing headphones?

If all Shanahan is there for is to scheme the O, then (a) he's doing a horrible job at it, considering our production on O; (b) he should go back to being a coordinator.

It is the HEAD coach's job to make sure that players don't suffer from repeated "mental" mistakes like "badly throwing passes, dropping balls, missing defensive assignments and making stupid penalties". Especially since some of these players were hand picked by the coach.

Harbaugh's crazy college rah-rah schtick got old in the end and rubbed a lot of people (including players) the wrong way. But he took an underperforming team notorious for "badly throwing passes, dropping balls, missing defensive assignments and making stupid penalties" under previous regimes and got them to "nut up and make plays and play smart". I'm not saying Harbugh's way is the only way, or even that it's the right way (he always seems to choke at the final hurdle), but that's what a HC is there for. He's a MANAGER. Like in a business. He's not the only manager, he's not even the highest one. Call him the Chief Operating Officer, if you will (Lynch would be the CEO for football operations). He gets employees to "nut up", and (most important of all) takes responsibility for the product on the field. Using rewards and punishments, encouraging rhetoric, or whatever. One thing that I love about Andy Reid is that when the effs up (e.g. in clock management, or having the team play sloppy) the first thing he goes out and says is "it's my fault; I had to get the team out there playing like professionals, and they didn't".

That's a head coach.

I will repeat for what seems to be the thousandth time that I wanted us to hire Shanahan, and that I want him to have at least 2, or preferably 3 seasons. But this religious-like conviction around here that he's the perfect man and that he can do no wrong is simply bizarre. So far he has sucked royally. He may prove me wrong in the future, and boy would I like to eat my words then. I want the team to win, not to score a cheap point in a forum. He may prove amazing. I hope so. But so far he's the #1 reason the team is 0-5. He's the head coach.

As for the seeming happiness that some here have for us to have "moral victories", it's not only pathetic (we're the 49ers dammit! Moral victories are for losers like the Browns) but it's also without any real foundation. Where exactly is the vaunted "progress" we have shown in this 0-5 stretch? The 10 or so snaps of Foster in Game 1 (before he got injured for a month)? The couple of quarters of excellent play by Kittle (after a few crippling drops in the past)? The few sacks thrown here and there (after long stretches of games when my 3-year old niece could have got more pressure on the QB)? Who's the invaluable piece that we have uncovered for the next great 9er team, since this season (and the next, and the one after that, if one goes by this forum) is a washout? Don't say Buckner, he was already showing flashes last year. What kind of innovative scheme are we installing that next year, or the year after that, our young players will have mastered and will dominate the NFL with? In the end, why are you all so happy about being 0-5? For "losing 4 games by a combined 11 points"? Is this something to be proud of or embarrassed by?

Well, for a team that was 2-14 and repeatedly blown out last year....I'd say yes, being in every single game is a big deal.

Of course the HC is responsible for product on the field and he will pay for it if it's doesnt improve but it's laughable to think that he's the reason why a QB misses wide open receivers or WR drop passes or OL commits false starts. That's always on the players since they are physical mistakes.

Again, the biggest issue here is the ridiculously unrealistic expectation that's this team would be decent and somehow wasn't basically an expansion team that has a severe talent deficit. It's been 5 games and this team has really competitive unlike the last 2 years. That's a positive not a negative considering this is a ground up rebuild. No matter the b***hing and moaning and long winded rants condemning so called moral victories, the reality is rebuilds take time and harshly judging a staff 5 games into year 1 is a seriously flawed practice.

lol omfg the doom & gloom in this thread! Forty-Whiners is such a fit. Calm the fk down folks! lol. This fan base is so disconnected from reality. Well that's a given if you go to the games it's pretty obvious.
Look folks you can't be placing all the blame on the HC. Play calling weak? lol i disagree. Given the lack of talent, and inconsistency this has been pretty spot on, on how i expected this season to go. The defense is much improved. we are not getting blown out & giving up astronomical numbers. We are fighting hard. This team is lacking some serious fkn talent. we are thin. And that's a hard reality. We've had one draft. I believe next Free agency we will pick up some more players, and another draft we should be looking good.
This is going to take time & patience. There is a plan in place, and i see it moving fwd. If you don't then i guess you are blind or either have 0 football IQ. you build your team up then you go get a QB. Sure some of the play calling has been suspect, but isn't it always? eh. Look at the film, and you will see plenty of guys open. Either Staley is whiffing on a 2 man blitz, or the Guards are getting eaten up. Too many drops by the WR's. leading the league there. The costly penalties on 3rd down is a back breaker for this young team (which a lot of these calls are brutally bad, but that's the game). I see guys in position to make plays but aren't : hence Dontae Johnson & Robinson (no hands). The little things are killing this team from executing accurately. but Shanahan has been putting them in positions to succeed, it's just on the execution. The end result in what we are seeing is exactly what you would expect from such a young & not so talented team. WE LACK TALENT!!!! plain & simple. bad drafts, & free agency has put us back. I like our coaching staff. I like the DC too. Growing pains my friends. Then again most of you on here i bet never lived through the beginning of the Walsh years. This is very similar. IMHO we are trending in the right direction.
Yes i know participation trophies are not warranted and by no means am i advocating that method.

Originally posted by mayo49:

As long as the team continues to shows competitiveness, I think Shanny is ok.

This is kinda where I'm at. At no point in the last two years was this team competitive for 4 straight games. These close loses suck but are soooo much better than the blowouts the team usually have gotten with a L the last two years.

Originally posted by walker807:

Originally posted by mayo49:
As long as the team continues to shows competitiveness, I think Shanny is ok.

This is kinda where I'm at. At no point in the last two years was this team competitive for 4 straight games. These close loses suck but are soooo much better than the blowouts the team usually have gotten with a L the last two years.

Yeah, there in games and not getting blown out. They'll eventually break through on a couple of games.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
no, he doesn't. lol. to what, satisfy the fan base by having an extra win? a meaningless win that would only set our draft position back?

Oh you can bet your as* it does to me.

You just want to tank right? Why didn't you say so from week 1? Let's not waste time here.

because we were 0-0 week 1 and now we're 0-5 and are in dire need of a real QB?

im sorry you care so much about having 1 more meaningless win just to show he had 1 more win than Chip Kelly. if that's how you compare coaches then you really need to do some research, lol.

Originally posted by wailers15:
lol omfg the doom & gloom in this thread! Forty-Whiners is such a fit. Calm the fk down folks! lol. This fan base is so disconnected from reality. Well that's a given if you go to the games it's pretty obvious.
Look folks you can't be placing all the blame on the HC. Play calling weak? lol i disagree. Given the lack of talent, and inconsistency this has been pretty spot on, on how i expected this season to go. The defense is much improved. we are not getting blown out & giving up astronomical numbers. We are fighting hard. This team is lacking some serious fkn talent. we are thin. And that's a hard reality. We've had one draft. I believe next Free agency we will pick up some more players, and another draft we should be looking good.
This is going to take time & patience. There is a plan in place, and i see it moving fwd. If you don't then i guess you are blind or either have 0 football IQ. you build your team up then you go get a QB. Sure some of the play calling has been suspect, but isn't it always? eh. Look at the film, and you will see plenty of guys open. Either Staley is whiffing on a 2 man blitz, or the Guards are getting eaten up. Too many drops by the WR's. leading the league there. The costly penalties on 3rd down is a back breaker for this young team (which a lot of these calls are brutally bad, but that's the game). I see guys in position to make plays but aren't : hence Dontae Johnson & Robinson (no hands). The little things are killing this team from executing accurately. but Shanahan has been putting them in positions to succeed, it's just on the execution. The end result in what we are seeing is exactly what you would expect from such a young & not so talented team. WE LACK TALENT!!!! plain & simple. bad drafts, & free agency has put us back. I like our coaching staff. I like the DC too. Growing pains my friends. Then again most of you on here i bet never lived through the beginning of the Walsh years. This is very similar. IMHO we are trending in the right direction.
Yes i know participation trophies are not warranted and by no means am i advocating that method.

but bro, we have to get 3 wins to have 1 more than what Kelly had to show that Kyle Shanahan really is better!

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
no, he doesn't. lol. to what, satisfy the fan base by having an extra win? a meaningless win that would only set our draft position back?

Oh you can bet your as* it does to me.

You just want to tank right? Why didn't you say so from week 1? Let's not waste time here.

because we were 0-0 week 1 and now we're 0-5 and are in dire need of a real QB?

im sorry you care so much about having 1 more meaningless win just to show he had 1 more win than Chip Kelly. if that's how you compare coaches then you really need to do some research, lol.

Winning more games than Kelly or Tomsula is not how I define who is better or if we are heading in the right direction. It is the product we are seeing on the field that defines that for me.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by jcs:

Gotta get a win soon...Dumbsula was 2-4 after 6 games...Chip 1-5...going 0-6 is technically heading in the wrong direction.....

I made it very clear, Shanahan has to be able to do better than Chip Kelly. Chip won 2 games and my target for Shanahan was 4 wins. Since we are looking at soon to be 0-6, it really doesn't look likely. But, he has to get 3 wins at least.

no, he doesn't. lol. to what, satisfy the fan base by having an extra win? a meaningless win that would only set our draft position back?

This. Shanahan and Lynch blew it all up and hit the rebuild button big time. Ultimately they will be judged on what happens in upcoming seasons, not this one. People will just need to take a deep breath and chill.


If you want instant gratification, go play Madden on easy mode.

Originally posted by Niners816:
Well, for a team that was 2-14 and repeatedly blown out last year....I'd say yes, being in every single game is a big deal.

But why and how is it good to lose 5 games in a row if they are close losses? I can see two ways that what you say is true: (a) There is young talent there who's learning and who's gonna be around for the next great Niners team. They are now being seasoned, but they will be the trunk of the team when we are competitive. (b) The team is "showing fight".

(b) For me is nonsense. I can equally easily argue that these are 5 disheartening losses, some against very poor teams (AZ, IND), or teams with huge question marks (SEA, LAR). I can also argue that 5 straight losses that are dressed up as "progress" are just moral victories, i.e. excuses that "not terrible = good enough", and they build up a culture of failure.

Either way, not being in the players' heads, I can't say much for the psychological impact. Some players may be like Frank in '05 and channel the disappointment and anger into greatness. Others may just shrug and keep getting a paycheck being careful to avoid injury. Since being merely not terrible is acceptable, why risk your health and future career for a team that thinks that this year losing is fine? Others may resent that they are merely placeholders for future greatness and will also underperform and will bring down with them other teammates. Football is not baseball where you can be Stanton or Trout and be great on s**tty teams for years on end. It's much less individualistic, even for QBs which is the most individualistic position. Defeat breeds bad performance and poor development of talent.

Anyway, I don't buy the "competitiveness" argument for its psychological benefits, at least not as a factor that will really aid the building of the next great Niners team.

(a) however is something to talk about. As I wrote in my original email, losing games makes sense if you are developing young talent who will be with you for years when the next great team is assembled. It's a rational policy in baseball: the Cubs famously did it, the Yankees are doing it (and in fact outperforming), the Phillies are hopefully doing it (I'm a fan): they have young, controllable players (Nola, Altherr, Williams, Hoskins, Crawford) who are now showing merely flashes, but who in a couple of years down the line may be developed enough to be paired with big time FAs (Machado, hopefully, perhaps even Harper - hey, one can dream). We did the same in '06 with the core of Howard, Utley, Hamels and the others. It doesn't always work (what does?), but it's a rational approach.

The problem however, is that I don't think we're anywhere close to that with the Niners for two reasons. Timescales in football are much shorter. Rhys Hoskins will be with the Phillies for another 6 seasons. The worst thing that will happen to him in the process is that he's a flash in the pan and he sucks. Perhaps he gets a recurrent injury of the hamstring sort, or (God forbid) an ACL while rounding the bases. Pitchers are trickier, being only a breath away from a Tommy John (at best), or having their arm figuratively fall off (at its usual worst).Football careers are around 3 years on average, and you have concussions and much nastier injuries to worry about. Contracts are shorter. Draft picks are cheaper than veterans, and there is always a push for playing the new sexy draft pick ahead of the veteran - especially a veteran of numerous losing campaigns. Who's to say that after say, two years of moral victories and actual losses, we don't clamour for Thomas, Foster etc to be sat down in favour of the new hot draft pick? Why wouldn't we look at them as "busts" after a couple more of 2-14 years?

And who are these true, long-term building blocks right now? I can't really go beyond Buckner right now. This year's picks have shown flashes, but who knows? Of the FAs, Garcon is good but will he be equally good (or motivated?) after two more years of endless defeat? Will he even be here?

Again, the biggest issue here is the ridiculously unrealistic expectation that's this team would be decent and somehow wasn't basically an expansion team that has a severe talent deficit.

Whose expectation is this? Surely not mine - you can pop over to the fools' gold thread and see what I feared then, or what my take on our talent level was. I am truly sorry I am not able to come here and say that I was wrong. I don't care about being right. I care that right now I waste 3 hours of my Sunday evenings (time difference sucks) to see a team of losers (literally), and then be insulted by being told in fact they are moral victors.