49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
You don't hire a Kyle Shanahan to have him turn over playcalling duties to someone else. His dad called his own plays for his first 7 years as a HC. Holmgren called offense his entire career. Sean Payton has called the offense his entire career. Mike McCarthy has called the offense pretty much every season in the NFL.

You don't hire a top offensive mind to have them delegate to someone less talented, experienced and less capable as a playcaller.

If you actually go back through the games or even just look at the THL/JonnyDel game review threads it is pretty obvious that the playcalling hasn't been the issue.

The biggest problem is bad players making bad decisions, dumb penalties and other stuff bad players usually do.

You could argue that Kyle should have hired a more experienced DC overall but I don't see an issue with him continuing to call the plays and run the offense. He is one of the top playcallers in football and you want him continuing to play towards his strengths.

As time goes on and they acquire better players, perhaps a better overall DC, it will all start to come together.

Completely agree with this.

So my thing is, if you're going to cut Bowman and clearly announce we are in full rebuild mode, why not start Beathard and see what he gives us? If he's a star in the making, now is the time to find that out, not before the draft when we have a top-5 pick and are still wondering if he is a viable franchise quarterback or we need to draft one of the QBs in this draft. That's completely on Shanahan, and it would be slightly hypocritical if you are moving your veterans off the team while still holding onto a Brian Hoyer who clearly isn't the answer.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

You don't hire a Kyle Shanahan to have him turn over playcalling duties to someone else. His dad called his own plays for his first 7 years as a HC. Holmgren called offense his entire career. Sean Payton has called the offense his entire career. Mike McCarthy has called the offense pretty much every season in the NFL.

You don't hire a top offensive mind to have them delegate to someone less talented, experienced and less capable as a playcaller.


If you actually go back through the games or even just look at the THL/JonnyDel game review threads it is pretty obvious that the playcalling hasn't been the issue.


The biggest problem is bad players making bad decisions, dumb penalties and other stuff bad players usually do.



You could argue that Kyle should have hired a more experienced DC overall but I don't see an issue with him continuing to call the plays and run the offense. He is one of the top playcallers in football and you want him continuing to play towards his strengths.


As time goes on and they acquire better players, perhaps a better overall DC, it will all start to come together.

I agree. He's five games in and we went from a team that couldn't run a 2-minute drill to runninga flawless hurry up last game.

It's going to take Kyle time to learn how learn how to be a head coach and how to balance that with also being the OC.

He'll probably learn to delegate some stuff like film break down, have some of his assistants provide feedback on scripted plays, grill some on scenarios in training, etc. to help lessen the load, etc.

But yes, no question, penalties, drops, and turnovers have overshadowed some excellent play calling.

That's not saying the suggestion isn't a good idea esp. that of a defense be could fully turn over like a Harbaugh-Fangio scenario. That would help but this set up is for the long haul.

Kyle will have to find his balance.

Originally posted by harkenthegoldenyears:

So my thing is, if you're going to cut Bowman and clearly announce we are in full rebuild mode, why not start Beathard and see what he gives us? If he's a star in the making, now is the time to find that out, not before the draft when we have a top-5 pick and are still wondering if he is a viable franchise quarterback or we need to draft one of the QBs in this draft. That's completely on Shanahan, and it would be slightly hypocritical if you are moving your veterans off the team while still holding onto a Brian Hoyer who clearly isn't the answer.

Because starting BeatHard now would be all about one player...C.J.

With Hoyer, the full playbook is wide open so the other 10 players can get fully acclimated...as a result, new young players are highlighted each week in Taylor, Goodwin, Breida, Kittle, etc.

Once Kyle feels everyone has a strong grasp of the full playbook, only then will Kyle run out BeatHard with a trimmed down and tailored playbook.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

You don't hire a Kyle Shanahan to have him turn over playcalling duties to someone else. His dad called his own plays for his first 7 years as a HC. Holmgren called offense his entire career. Sean Payton has called the offense his entire career. Mike McCarthy has called the offense pretty much every season in the NFL.

You don't hire a top offensive mind to have them delegate to someone less talented, experienced and less capable as a playcaller.


If you actually go back through the games or even just look at the THL/JonnyDel game review threads it is pretty obvious that the playcalling hasn't been the issue.


The biggest problem is bad players making bad decisions, dumb penalties and other stuff bad players usually do.



You could argue that Kyle should have hired a more experienced DC overall but I don't see an issue with him continuing to call the plays and run the offense. He is one of the top playcallers in football and you want him continuing to play towards his strengths.


As time goes on and they acquire better players, perhaps a better overall DC, it will all start to come together.

There isn't anyone in the building I want installing, game planning or calling plays other than Kyle. These skills are what got him the gig and delegating these in the install stage is unwise. Let's get the b*****d installed and if some point Kyle wants to delegate it then so be it. I don't get the outrage, you gotta be less outcome oriented at this point and watch the plays. Guys are running open.

Regardless of what some may think, I don't sense that this fanbase wants KS to fail.... I do sense that you have more fans willing to question and not support the decisions of this fairly inept ownership and management team.... it is what it is.... they should have done right by this franchise and they wouldn't be in this position.... and those trying to sell KS as some type of great hire just infuriates people even more.... he's a project coach.

Originally posted by Follower:

Regardless of what some may think, I don't sense that this fanbase wants KS to fail.... I do sense that you have more fans willing to question and not support the decisions of this fairly inept ownership and management team.... it is what it is.... they should have done right by this franchise and they wouldn't be in this position.... and those trying to sell KS as some type of great hire just infuriates people even more.... he's a project coach.

You've got no great insight....and EVERY first time coach is a project coach. Even your stroke-off boy McVay....he's lucky though because he inherited a decently talented roster and decade plus HC running a third of the team for him. Most HC, don't get to sit on the Gatorade cooler and look at tablets....Some might say that's really not even being a HC at all.

Originally posted by Niners816:
There isn't anyone in the building I want installing, game planning or calling plays other than Kyle. These skills are what got him the gig and delegating these in the install stage is unwise. Let's get the b*****d installed and if some point Kyle wants to delegate it then so be it. I don't get the outrage, you gotta be less outcome oriented at this point and watch the plays. Guys are running open.

Eventually like his dad he might opt to hand the reins to a trusted assistant the way Mike did with Kubiak but in the meantime, I don't want anyone but Kyle calling the plays and running the offense.

I think people are too caught up on the whole OC title. When you have an offensive minded head coach who runs their own plays, the OC is a glorified title. They are an assistant that helps with the gameplanning and typically the run game. Chip Kelly had an OC who didn't do s**t but assist in the run game and gameplanning. Bruce Arians has an OC that doesn't do s**t but assist in the run game and gameplanning. Mike McCarthy for a long time had an OC that didn't do s**t but assist in the gameplanning, then McCarthy gave him a shot to call the plays, figured out he was garbage at it and took the playcalling back. Now he has an OC who doesn't do s**t but assist in the run game and gameplanning.

Shanahan has his "Offensive Coordinator" in Mike McDaniel who focuses on the run game and gameplanning. He does all the same stuff that "offensive coordinators" for coaches calling their own offense do, he just doesn't have the title.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
I think the team would benefit from having a OC to assist in coordinating and game planning for the offense. This is shanny's first HC gig ever at any level so he should focus on getting down the nuances of the job. There is nothing wrong with the HC delegating some duties.

You don't hire a Kyle Shanahan to have him turn over playcalling duties to someone else. His dad called his own plays for his first 7 years as a HC. Holmgren called offense his entire career. Sean Payton has called the offense his entire career. Mike McCarthy has called the offense pretty much every season in the NFL.

You don't hire a top offensive mind to have them delegate to someone less talented, experienced and less capable as a playcaller.

Holgmren had Sherman Lewis as his OC his rookie year. Sean Payton had Doug Marrone as OC his rookie year. Mike McCarthy had Jeff Jagodzinski as his OC his rookie year. The only HC who didn't have an OC on that list was his father who was fired after two seasons of turmoil on the LA Raiders, however what is interesting is that his OC in his second Job year one with the Broncos was Gary Kubiak...guess he learned his lesson??

Originally posted by Follower:
Regardless of what some may think, I don't sense that this fanbase wants KS to fail.... I do sense that you have more fans willing to question and not support the decisions of this fairly inept ownership and management team.... it is what it is.... they should have done right by this franchise and they wouldn't be in this position.... and those trying to sell KS as some type of great hire just infuriates people even more.... he's a project coach.

There's no guarantee Shanahan succeeds but let's not pretend that throughout last season he wasn't the top HC candidate. Eight seasons as an OC and the Falcons were killing it on offense, one of the best single-seasons ever. It's really unfortunate that all he's remembered by is two play calls in the Super Bowl because all season long that was a top ten offense of all time.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

I think the team would benefit from having a OC to assist in coordinating and game planning for the offense. This is shanny's first HC gig ever at any level so he should focus on getting down the nuances of the job. There is nothing wrong with the HC delegating some duties.

You don't hire a Kyle Shanahan to have him turn over playcalling duties to someone else. His dad called his own plays for his first 7 years as a HC. Holmgren called offense his entire career. Sean Payton has called the offense his entire career. Mike McCarthy has called the offense pretty much every season in the NFL.

You don't hire a top offensive mind to have them delegate to someone less talented, experienced and less capable as a playcaller.

Holgmren had Sherman Lewis as his OC his rookie year. Sean Payton had Doug Marrone as OC his rookie year. Mike McCarthy had Jeff Jagodzinski as his OC his rookie year. The only HC who didn't have an OC on that list was his father who was fired after two seasons of turmoil on the LA Raiders, however what is interesting is that his OC in his second Job year one with the Broncos was Gary Kubiak...guess he learned his lesson??

Not one playcaller on that list in those positions....there's a difference.

Originally posted by jcs:
Holgmren had Sherman Lewis as his OC his rookie year. Sean Payton had Doug Marrone as OC his rookie year. Mike McCarthy had Jeff Jagodzinski as his OC his rookie year. The only HC who didn't have an OC on that list was his father who was fired after two seasons of turmoil on the LA Raiders, however what is interesting is that his OC in his second Job year one with the Broncos was Gary Kubiak...guess he learned his lesson??

None of those guys called any plays nor had any previous NFL playcalling experience. Every single one was a run game and gameplanning helper type.

Before Marrone acted as OC for Payton, he had been an OL and TE coach. Pretty much the exact same profile as Harold Goodwin who has been OC for the Cardinals.

Before Jagodzinski acted as OC, he had been a........OL and TE coach.

Before Sherm Lewis acted as OC for Holmgren, he had been a WR and RB coach.

Before Mike McDaniel became the run game specialist for Shanahan he coached wide receivers.

Ultimately, the only difference between McDaniel and those guys is the title of offensive coordinator. In the end run, he is fulfilling the same exact role as they did.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Eventually like his dad he might opt to hand the reins to a trusted assistant the way Mike did with Kubiak but in the meantime, I don't want anyone but Kyle calling the plays and running the offense.

I think people are too caught up on the whole OC title. When you have an offensive minded head coach who runs their own plays, the OC is a glorified title. They are an assistant that helps with the gameplanning and typically the run game. Chip Kelly had an OC who didn't do s**t but assist in the run game and gameplanning. Bruce Arians has an OC that doesn't do s**t but assist in the run game and gameplanning. Mike McCarthy for a long time had an OC that didn't do s**t but assist in the gameplanning, then McCarthy gave him a shot to call the plays, figured out he was garbage at it and took the playcalling back. Now he has an OC who doesn't do s**t but assist in the run game and gameplanning.

Shanahan has his "Offensive Coordinator" in Mike McDaniel who focuses on the run game and gameplanning. He does all the same stuff that "offensive coordinators" for coaches calling their own offense do, he just doesn't have the title.

Hell, Bill Walsh didn't have an OC for his entire tenure with us. The top offensive assistant was the QB Coach. Playcalling HC are like gold....You find the right one and the Offense never leaves the Building when staffs turnover.

This "top offensive mind" thing I just can't find support for.... he's nothing extraordinary.... Jed got cornered and bullied into 6 years.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jcs:
Holgmren had Sherman Lewis as his OC his rookie year. Sean Payton had Doug Marrone as OC his rookie year. Mike McCarthy had Jeff Jagodzinski as his OC his rookie year. The only HC who didn't have an OC on that list was his father who was fired after two seasons of turmoil on the LA Raiders, however what is interesting is that his OC in his second Job year one with the Broncos was Gary Kubiak...guess he learned his lesson??

None of those guys called any plays nor had any previous NFL playcalling experience. Every single one was a run game and gameplanning helper type.

Before Marrone acted as OC for Payton, he had been an OL and TE coach. Pretty much the exact same profile as Harold Goodwin who has been OC for the Cardinals.

Before Jagodzinski acted as OC, he had been a........OL and TE coach.

Before Sherm Lewis acted as OC for Holmgren, he had been a WR and RB coach.

Before Mike McDaniel became the run game specialist for Shanahan he coached wide receivers.

Ultimately, the only difference between McDaniel and those guys is the title of offensive coordinator. In the end run, he is fulfilling the same exact role as they did.

OC was the title given to each of the coaches I listed go back and look them up. If they were only used as game planners/run game play caller as you say then it's still more than what we have here today with our rookie HC KS who's 0-5 and looking like he's in over his head right now.