49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:
Awesome.

So if we're just missing the QB and the HC has had 6 years to acquire that QB with no restrictions, that's gotta be one helluva dilemma in your brain.

When you whiff the first time it takes a bit to recover from it.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Yessir. This is one reason I don't want KS near the decision making process on our QB room. Any GM floundering that long at the games most important position is long gone. Fire KS the GM. Keep KS the coach, who is one of the best on earth now at X's O's.

So you agree the team missed badly on their first big ticket QB investment

All I am commenting on is the past and present. Future is not written. There is an opportunity cost to burning three ones. And flexing those three ones in a more meaningful way as far as 2021 and 2022 are concerned may have pushed us the inch or two more to a SB win or two. Opportunity cost are all the doors you shut to walk thru the TL door. We closed quite a few. Rams used their picks different so did Chiefs and Eagles. Philly got Brown, LA got Stafford, Chiefs restocked their D. They are a million ways we could have done similar upgrades. 3 ones can buy you a lot.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
You need to show how exactly how the scheme is causing these injuries more frequently than other schemes. Otherwise all you have is a hypothesis

No I don't. None of Kyle's protégés run his system the same way. Even their philosophy is different. You don't need to look anywhere past what's in front of your face here. Or don't.

Explain to me how it's luck when it's been a recurring and consistent theme all 6 years? If it was luck, we'd easily have regressed back to the mean by now. In fact the AGL research shows you outlier teams usually bounce back to their norm or mean the very next year.

So explain to me the luck angle.

what.. what a cop out. you know that is some sorry s**t posting there.. absurd claims but doesn't need to provide any proof ..thats just weaksauce

but that is every NC post

NC, what is it about Kyle's scheme/operation/philosophy that makes it more injury prone for the players? I'll list some things so you can either use them, or perhaps it sparks a reason that I didn't list:

- amount of run plays called
- variation of run plays (blocking schemes)
- high amount of playaction
- high amount of presnap motion
- high amount of QB under center (compared to other teams)
- WRs often aligned in a reduced split (near the OT/TE)
- high amount of throws over the middle
- high amount of 21 personnel (using a FB)
- not enough 11 personnel (compared to other teams)
- practices are too hard
- practices are too easy (I listed both because I don't know how his practices compares to other teams)
- poor nutrition in the cafeteria (no idea how either of us can definitively claim either way on this)

I'll take a, "idk it just is", answer too.

Physicality. Like Fangio's old scheme eating through the front 7. We just are more run centric than any other team and that physicality catches up over time; and to the teams we just played (what, 0-11 the next week after playing us). Then to pass protection, it's hard to be run centric and then shift gears and pass protect esp. on PA and longer developing plays. IIRC, our average time to throw is 3.64s (that's a long time to hold). Throw in all the added miles on pre snap motion, blocking on the move, mismatches to run certain sets, it tends to put some on islands. Throw in the mental aspect...so much IQ goes into each play, guys running against the grain, etc. Smaller more agile against bigger, more physical DL...I know we moved away from that more this year for that reason. Just some thoughts typing out loud. Many more had been laid out in the injury thread over the years by many others. The cumulative wear and tear.

It's pretty moot though. The scheme isn't changing. So we just need to work around it and make sure we're 3 deep in every position minus FB. Like NY always says, "It is what it is..." I'm just adding, "...so make sure you're prepared for it annually." --- always carry 3 QB's, 4 TE's, 5 RB's, 10 OL, etc.

Just to clarify, I say the same thing about offenses that rely on running QB's. It's going to catch up eventually and this was the year every one got hurt.

The 49ers have ranked top five in rushing attempts twice in Kyle's tenure (2019, 2021). I don't know if there were more injuries on offense during those seasons.

I listed things that are somewhat unique to Kyle's offensive scheme, even though multiple NFL teams do some combination of these things so it's not truly unique, just some characteristics of Kyle's scheme off the top of my head.

"it's hard to be run centric and then shift gears and pass protect". All NFL teams do this. Why is this a reason to suspect that it creates more injuries?

"so much IQ goes into each play". Asking players to think more causes more injuries? wat?

I think some players are simply built to not get injured. Laken Tomlinson never missed a game for the 49ers. He became a Jet and didn't miss a single game for them this season. Brendl and McG didn't miss a game this season, but McG has missed games in the past. There is no one single answer to why the 49ers have been getting more injured than some other teams. To chalk it up as the 49ers' scheme being the culprit is too convenient.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
All I am commenting on is the past and present. Future is not written. There is an opportunity cost to burning three ones. And flexing those three ones in a more meaningful way as far as 2021 and 2022 are concerned may have pushed us the inch or two more to a SB win or two. Opportunity cost are all the doors you shut to walk thru the TL door. We closed quite a few. Rams used their picks different so did Chiefs and Eagles. Philly got Brown, LA got Stafford, Chiefs restocked their D. They are a million ways we could have done similar upgrades. 3 ones can buy you a lot.

Sure. There was also an opportunity cost to giving 130 million dollars to a slightly above average QB. That closed the Buckner door.

Originally posted by thl408:
The 49ers have ranked top five in rushing attempts twice in Kyle's tenure (2019, 2021). I don't know if there were more injuries on offense during those seasons.

I listed things that are somewhat unique to Kyle's offensive scheme, even though multiple NFL teams do some combination of these things so it's not truly unique, just some characteristics of Kyle's scheme off the top of my head.

"it's hard to be run centric and then shift gears and pass protect". All NFL teams do this. Why is this a reason to suspect that it creates more injuries?

"so much IQ goes into each play". Asking players to think more causes more injuries? wat?

I think some players are simply built to not get injured. Laken Tomlinson never missed a game for the 49ers. He became a Jet and didn't miss a single game for them this season. Brendl and McG didn't miss a game this season, but McG has missed games in the past. There is no one single answer to why the 49ers have been getting more injured than some other teams. To chalk it up as the 49ers' scheme being the culprit is too convenient.

Indeed it is thl. Indeed it is.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Awesome.

So if we're just missing the QB and the HC has had 6 years to acquire that QB with no restrictions, that's gotta be one helluva dilemma in your brain.

what does no restrictions mean...Are you saying it's easy to get a stud at QB ?

There's no dilemma as i understand how it works .. i don't need to make anything up to prove a point

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
what does no restrictions mean...Are you saying it's easy to get a stud a QB ?

There's no dilemma as i understand how it works .. i don't need to make anything up to prove a point

You just get 5 all pros on the OL and a stud QB appears Att.

I mean wasn't your takeaway from the AFC Championship game that the Chiefs OL willed them to victory?

Originally posted by 5thSFG:

Originally posted by 9moon:
Not that anyone here can do anything about keeping or firing Shanny.. We all can just POSTS and share our opinion..

Bottom line is, no one remembers being 2nd place .. well, unless you're a fan of Shanny.

Perhaps that's your bottom line, but I'd much rather have sustained success, with a chance to win it all each year. Shanny did more this year with backup qbs than any coach you may suggest.

keep your enthusiasm though. It's sure to sway some opinions 🤣

ps: the niners organization > the rams organization, we'd all agree with that. And they just won't the super bowl last year. Your reasoning is flawed, and based on emotion

the rams weren't winning BEFORE stafford got hurt… only using the rams because they are the latest SB winners, which is what your clamoring about.

isn't winning the Super Bowl the ONLY thing that matters?

The two QBs that Shanny turned down (TB & Staff) both happened to win Super Bowls for their team.. They may be done now, but they served their purpose.. NO?

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
what does no restrictions mean...Are you saying it's easy to get a stud a QB ?

There's no dilemma as i understand how it works .. i don't need to make anything up to prove a point

You just get 5 all pros on the OL and a stud QB appears Att.

I mean wasn't your takeaway from the AFC Championship game that the Chiefs OL willed them to victory?

what.. why don't all teams do this !!

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
All I am commenting on is the past and present. Future is not written. There is an opportunity cost to burning three ones. And flexing those three ones in a more meaningful way as far as 2021 and 2022 are concerned may have pushed us the inch or two more to a SB win or two. Opportunity cost are all the doors you shut to walk thru the TL door. We closed quite a few. Rams used their picks different so did Chiefs and Eagles. Philly got Brown, LA got Stafford, Chiefs restocked their D. They are a million ways we could have done similar upgrades. 3 ones can buy you a lot.

Sure. There was also an opportunity cost to giving 130 million dollars to a slightly above average QB. That closed the Buckner door.

Interesting post. I suppose it did, tho hard to say how the entire KS era plays out with no JG. I mean, who is QB? If it's CJ or Nick, we saw that product with DeFo, it sucked. Maybe we would have gone all guns blazing after Cousins.

Originally posted by 9moon:
isn't winning the Super Bowl the ONLY thing that matters?

The two QBs that Shanny turned down (TB & Staff) both happened to win Super Bowls for their team.. They may be done now, but they served their purpose.. NO?

He turned down Stafford? When was this?

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:

Originally posted by Franchise408:

lmao Kyle Shanahan took this team to the NFC Championship with a 3rd string QB, and it took losing the 3rd AND 4th string QB's in the same game and having literally 0 QB's to finally beat him, and people are talking about how Shanahan is the problem.

Being "the problem" and needing to be better are 2 different things

2023 will be Kyle's 7th season as head coach of the 9ers and Is yet to find a QB who's good enough to get us over the hump.

That's the biggest problem.

I agree, it's not the only problem but it is the biggest.

Coaches that don't find a QB generally get fired. That's just the way it is. Belichick and Reid didn't find their home until they found their QB.

But he did. And the QB got hurt (Purdy). Also, coaches that don't WIN get fired. Usually the QB and coach thing go hand in hand. But Kyle has managed to win in spite of not having a top 5 or 10 QB (Brock might be one, but I need to see it over a full season).

The Eagles, the NFCs best couldn't win a single game when their 1st QB went out. If they had to ride with Minshew for say 12 games, does that suddenly mean Sirianni should get the axe?

Winning buys more time like Andy in Philly, but if you keep coming up short with no QB people start losing hope. It becomes a toxic environment. Philly fans will tell you it was just time to part ways with Andy.

Purdy looked very promising but he has to show more before we say Kyle found his guy.

Damn, now that you guys mentioned it, maybe if we had Kirk Cousins we'd have a superbowl or two by now. Does he even get injured? Bill Bellicheck screwed us over..

...those damn Patriots.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Interesting post. I suppose it did, tho hard to say how the entire KS era plays out with no JG. I mean, who is QB? If it's CJ or Nick, we saw that product with DeFo, it sucked. Maybe we would have gone all guns blazing after Cousins.

Who knows what they would've done. Perhaps the 9ers trade up for Josh Allen and all of this moot. But there is no denying we didn't get good value for the money spent on QB.

I know your shot at Kyle the GM is because he went for Trey. But it really should be because him and Lynch spent the money on Jimmy. Trey worth is still an unknown. Jimmy is a known and it wasn't worth the money.

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by 5thSFG:

Originally posted by 9moon:
Not that anyone here can do anything about keeping or firing Shanny.. We all can just POSTS and share our opinion..

Bottom line is, no one remembers being 2nd place .. well, unless you're a fan of Shanny.

Perhaps that's your bottom line, but I'd much rather have sustained success, with a chance to win it all each year. Shanny did more this year with backup qbs than any coach you may suggest.

keep your enthusiasm though. It's sure to sway some opinions 🤣

ps: the niners organization > the rams organization, we'd all agree with that. And they just won't the super bowl last year. Your reasoning is flawed, and based on emotion

the rams weren't winning BEFORE stafford got hurt… only using the rams because they are the latest SB winners, which is what your clamoring about.

isn't winning the Super Bowl the ONLY thing that matters?

The two QBs that Shanny turned down (TB & Staff) both happened to win Super Bowls for their team.. They may be done now, but they served their purpose.. NO?

Is it just me or is the one yr QB rental feel less satisfying if you win the SB. Manning won in Denver but he was never a Bronco nor was Brady a Buc.