49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I did LOL you got me, but youre saying scheme doesn't matter when great players don't adhere to the scheme? So I will still say I am only half wrong, and therefore half right! Again I did ask after the game if we have data show QB hit rates, pressures etc compared to other teams, because I am not that thick headed. I never heard a response. I'm more just thinking out loud on here with you guys, its not scripture.

10th fewest hits in the league. 6th fewest sacks. 5th best pass protection rate in league.

To be fair we had this argument in the OL thread for years so perhaps i'm a little touchy because there IS someone that thick headed.

To be clear I am not saying scheme doesn't matter. Not even saying that 9ers scheme might be a problem. My point has always been if you are going to say DEFINITVELY that the 9ers don't value o line or they suck at it or the blocking scheme is at issue present the data that shows that. No one ever does. One person has moved the goalposts so far the penguins are jumping off them into the water in Antarctica.

Thank you. I usually agree with NCommand on o-line so ill be transparent there. My biggest complaint with Kyle is not addressing the o line as much as I felt it needed it... Scheme aside the best o-lines usually match the best teams. We were good, but the weaknesses imo get exposed in against the playoff d-lines.

Lets use Mahomes for example...beat us in a SB because the o-line was good and allowed to hold the entire game... the next year his o-line was decimated and he got destroyed. I dont care how good Lance or Purdy can be. They are only as good as the o-line. Thats my o-line philosophy. I was also taught you build a team in the trenches.

Numbers aside, when we get a 3rd and long don't tell me you're not thinking McG PLEASE DONT F THIS UP. Because I know I do and I know I'm not even worried about the left side. Its literally always the right to the middle that gets beat. So I would like to improve that if possible. I understand its impossible to have 5 Trent Williams, but I feel like everyone kinda agrees McG was a miss and well... here we still are. He has made the move to get more guys in the draft in recent years so I hope that continues.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I did LOL you got me, but youre saying scheme doesn't matter when great players don't adhere to the scheme? So I will still say I am only half wrong, and therefore half right! Again I did ask after the game if we have data show QB hit rates, pressures etc compared to other teams, because I am not that thick headed. I never heard a response. I'm more just thinking out loud on here with you guys, its not scripture.

10th fewest hits in the league. 6th fewest sacks. 5th best pass protection rate in league.

To be fair we had this argument in the OL thread for years so perhaps i'm a little touchy because there IS someone that thick headed.

To be clear I am not saying scheme doesn't matter. Not even saying that 9ers scheme might be a problem. My point has always been if you are going to say DEFINITVELY that the 9ers don't value o line or they suck at it or the blocking scheme is at issue present the data that shows that. No one ever does. One person has moved the goalposts so far the penguins are jumping off them into the water in Antarctica.

Thank you. I usually agree with NCommand on o-line so ill be transparent there. My biggest complaint with Kyle is not addressing the o line as much as I felt it needed it... Scheme aside the best o-lines usually match the best teams. We were good, but the weaknesses imo get exposed in against the playoff d-lines.

Lets use Mahomes for example...beat us in a SB because the o-line was good and allowed to hold the entire game... the next year his o-line was decimated and he got destroyed. I dont care how good Lance or Purdy can be. They are only as good as the o-line. Thats my o-line philosophy. I was also taught you build a team in the trenches.

Numbers aside, when we get a 3rd and long don't tell me you're not thinking McG PLEASE DONT F THIS UP. Because I know I do and I know I'm not even worried about the left side. Its literally always the right to the middle that gets beat. So I would like to improve that if possible. I understand its impossible to have 5 Trent Williams, but I feel like everyone kinda agrees McG was a miss and well... here we still are. He has made the move to get more guys in the draft in recent years so I hope that continues.

I also side a bit with NC, I think the OLine was under infused with high draft picks (yes I know McGlinchey was a high round pick). I understand that in the past there were other needs. Edge Rusher and a QB to replace Jimmy, for example. I think they have done a good job on the left side of the OLine and - as you said - they need to start to rebuild/redesign that right side. They don't have QB or edge rusher questions now, and while it was (in a sense) a fluke that Purdy got injured, nevertheless it did happen versus a hypothetical. Hence they have to address the issue either via scheme, draft, or a combo of both.

Trent Williams is an ideal lineman, he's good at both run and pass. He's tier one in both, in my opinion. What i think the 49ers need is a Banks type of player who is good at both but not outstanding in one and average on the other. I'd like the entire right side be good at both pass and run, but not to the level of a Trent Williams, otherwise you'd be using up several years worth of first round picks.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
I'm reading about Montana and the Toronto argonauts as opposed to niners superbowl news this week. Thanks Shanahan.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I see both sides of it in that sure the guy who did work deserves credit for work done. Also I realize that if Reid doesn't hire the man, he's in another city doing the work there, and they never land the player in KC.

so if Veach isn't the GM in KC they don't get Mahomes. That's the whole damn point.

So who's responsible for all the talent in Philly? Nick Sirianni or Howie Roseman? According to your takes it's Sirianni.

I see a bunch of nit picking over an O line that was ranked 5th in pass blocking and 10th in run blocking this past season. Banks and Burford are still young and growing. Brendel got better and better as the season went on as well.

For those wanting to replace MM, we need a day 1 starter. Where do we get that day 1 starter? Chances of finding one in the 3rd round or later is very unlikely. Is there a replacement at RT in house? Is there a RT in FA that is better than MM that won't cost so much that we cannot extend Bosa and the others that we need to extend?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I see both sides of it in that sure the guy who did work deserves credit for work done. Also I realize that if Reid doesn't hire the man, he's in another city doing the work there, and they never land the player in KC.

so if Veach isn't the GM in KC they don't get Mahomes. That's the whole damn point.

So who's responsible for all the talent in Philly? Nick Sirianni or Howie Roseman? According to your takes it's Sirianni.

Hey I could say if Kyle wasn't the head coach in SF and Lynch was still the GM we DO get Mahomes....

It's symbiotic right? The point is they both get credit.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I see a bunch of nit picking over an O line that was ranked 5th in pass blocking and 10th in run blocking this past season. Banks and Burford are still young and growing. Brendel got better and better as the season went on as well.

For those wanting to replace MM, we need a day 1 starter. Where do we get that day 1 starter? Chances of finding one in the 3rd round or later is very unlikely. Is there a replacement at RT in house? Is there a RT in FA that is better than MM that won't cost so much that we cannot extend Bosa and the others that we need to extend?

I get what you're saying, but you're basically saying pay MM (he isn't staying for 1year) while we groom his replacement. I say why hasn't that already been going on since we all knew a couple of years ago McG wasn't the answer.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I see a bunch of nit picking over an O line that was ranked 5th in pass blocking and 10th in run blocking this past season. Banks and Burford are still young and growing. Brendel got better and better as the season went on as well.

For those wanting to replace MM, we need a day 1 starter. Where do we get that day 1 starter? Chances of finding one in the 3rd round or later is very unlikely. Is there a replacement at RT in house? Is there a RT in FA that is better than MM that won't cost so much that we cannot extend Bosa and the others that we need to extend?

McGlinchy played well, ShanaLynch may want to keep him, but he played well enough to Possibly price ShanaLynch out of his market. So it may come down to drafting one or getting a cheaper RT free agent that has been under developed and they have confidence they can develop him more.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I get what you're saying, but you're basically saying pay MM (he isn't staying for 1year) while we groom his replacement. I say why hasn't that already been going on since we all knew a couple of years ago McG wasn't the answer.

Same reason we literally have no free safety under contract. Same reason we aren't 5 deep at DT. Limited resources coupled with other needs.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Thank you. I usually agree with NCommand on o-line so ill be transparent there. My biggest complaint with Kyle is not addressing the o line as much as I felt it needed it... Scheme aside the best o-lines usually match the best teams. We were good, but the weaknesses imo get exposed in against the playoff d-lines.

Lets use Mahomes for example...beat us in a SB because the o-line was good and allowed to hold the entire game... the next year his o-line was decimated and he got destroyed. I dont care how good Lance or Purdy can be. They are only as good as the o-line. Thats my o-line philosophy. I was also taught you build a team in the trenches.

Numbers aside, when we get a 3rd and long don't tell me you're not thinking McG PLEASE DONT F THIS UP. Because I know I do and I know I'm not even worried about the left side. Its literally always the right to the middle that gets beat. So I would like to improve that if possible. I understand its impossible to have 5 Trent Williams, but I feel like everyone kinda agrees McG was a miss and well... here we still are. He has made the move to get more guys in the draft in recent years so I hope that continues.

KC's OL was ranked middle of the pack the year they won the SB.

if you listened to NC and picked every guy he wanted in the first rd…you'd have one stud OT (wirfs) and a collection of horrible ass lineman/flops. The days of drafting lineman early and setting and forgetting are long gone. Lineman in college aren't close to being as ready as they use to be. Half of them don't run pro pass sets. They're raw as all the QBs coming into the league.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I see a bunch of nit picking over an O line that was ranked 5th in pass blocking and 10th in run blocking this past season. Banks and Burford are still young and growing. Brendel got better and better as the season went on as well.

For those wanting to replace MM, we need a day 1 starter. Where do we get that day 1 starter? Chances of finding one in the 3rd round or later is very unlikely. Is there a replacement at RT in house? Is there a RT in FA that is better than MM that won't cost so much that we cannot extend Bosa and the others that we need to extend?

I get what you're saying, but you're basically saying pay MM (he isn't staying for 1year) while we groom his replacement. I say why hasn't that already been going on since we all knew a couple of years ago McG wasn't the answer.

Not talking about the past. You cannot change the past. I am talking about this off season. For those who want to complain about the O line, an O line that ranked in the top 10 overall this past season, what is your solution going into THIS off season? Particularly at the RT position.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Thank you. I usually agree with NCommand on o-line so ill be transparent there. My biggest complaint with Kyle is not addressing the o line as much as I felt it needed it... Scheme aside the best o-lines usually match the best teams. We were good, but the weaknesses imo get exposed in against the playoff d-lines.

Lets use Mahomes for example...beat us in a SB because the o-line was good and allowed to hold the entire game... the next year his o-line was decimated and he got destroyed. I dont care how good Lance or Purdy can be. They are only as good as the o-line. Thats my o-line philosophy. I was also taught you build a team in the trenches.

Numbers aside, when we get a 3rd and long don't tell me you're not thinking McG PLEASE DONT F THIS UP. Because I know I do and I know I'm not even worried about the left side. Its literally always the right to the middle that gets beat. So I would like to improve that if possible. I understand its impossible to have 5 Trent Williams, but I feel like everyone kinda agrees McG was a miss and well... here we still are. He has made the move to get more guys in the draft in recent years so I hope that continues.

I'm no McGlinchey fan but he wasn't a miss, just a disappointment. He's a legit NFL right tackle.

Chiefs beat us because Pat Mahomes made big boy plays and Jimmy didn't. O line play wasn't drastically different in that game. It wasn't drastically different in 2021 vs the Rams. Team just couldn't make up for the QB deficit. Obviously the Chiefs O line was terrible in 2020 but our O line was never that level. NCommand continues to pretend it is every year and when the numbers don't back him up he moves the goalposts.

Reality is we need Trey or Brock to turn into the guy. They need O line protection sure but that alone won't make them viable. If they become viable they can do what Mahomes does and make the O line look better than it is. He did that in the AFC title game multiple times. Chiefs O line was exposed plenty.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I see a bunch of nit picking over an O line that was ranked 5th in pass blocking and 10th in run blocking this past season. Banks and Burford are still young and growing. Brendel got better and better as the season went on as well.

For those wanting to replace MM, we need a day 1 starter. Where do we get that day 1 starter? Chances of finding one in the 3rd round or later is very unlikely. Is there a replacement at RT in house? Is there a RT in FA that is better than MM that won't cost so much that we cannot extend Bosa and the others that we need to extend?

I get what you're saying, but you're basically saying pay MM (he isn't staying for 1year) while we groom his replacement. I say why hasn't that already been going on since we all knew a couple of years ago McG wasn't the answer.

Not talking about the past. You cannot change the past. I am talking about this off season. For those who want to complain about the O line, an O line that ranked in the top 10 overall this past season, what is your solution going into THIS off season? Particularly at the RT position.

Fair enough but this is the HC thread so I think its also fair to question past years with the present as it lead us here.

I am not sure about RT. I feel like we need o try something new thats not McGlinchey, but cant tell you he's better either. I know he played MUCH better down the stretch, but I still wouldnt fork over that kind of money for him.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Same reason we literally have no free safety under contract. Same reason we aren't 5 deep at DT. Limited resources coupled with other needs.

That's understood, but for me, o-line should not be in this bucket. It should have been a higher priority or at least be able to draft well there consistently. I love Banks and Burford, but we haven't been too hot drafting tackles.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Hey I could say if Kyle wasn't the head coach in SF and Lynch was still the GM we DO get Mahomes....

It's symbiotic right? The point is they both get credit.

lynch would be calling games if not for Kyle.

The reality of that one situation is you guys apparently didn't do your research on how Mahomes ended up in KC. It wasn't Reid it was the GM and to a lesser extent, their then QB coach Nagy. It's been well documented.

yes Reid has to be part of all of it, he's the HC. Acting like he was the main player is false. Even Mahomes talked about it.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Thank you. I usually agree with NCommand on o-line so ill be transparent there. My biggest complaint with Kyle is not addressing the o line as much as I felt it needed it... Scheme aside the best o-lines usually match the best teams. We were good, but the weaknesses imo get exposed in against the playoff d-lines.

Lets use Mahomes for example...beat us in a SB because the o-line was good and allowed to hold the entire game... the next year his o-line was decimated and he got destroyed. I dont care how good Lance or Purdy can be. They are only as good as the o-line. Thats my o-line philosophy. I was also taught you build a team in the trenches.

Numbers aside, when we get a 3rd and long don't tell me you're not thinking McG PLEASE DONT F THIS UP. Because I know I do and I know I'm not even worried about the left side. Its literally always the right to the middle that gets beat. So I would like to improve that if possible. I understand its impossible to have 5 Trent Williams, but I feel like everyone kinda agrees McG was a miss and well... here we still are. He has made the move to get more guys in the draft in recent years so I hope that continues.

I'm no McGlinchey fan but he wasn't a miss, just a disappointment. He's a legit NFL right tackle.

Chiefs beat us because Pat Mahomes made big boy plays and Jimmy didn't. O line play wasn't drastically different in that game. It wasn't drastically different in 2021 vs the Rams. Team just couldn't make up for the QB deficit. Obviously the Chiefs O line was terrible in 2021 but our O line was never that level. NCommand continues to pretend it is every year and when the numbers don't back him up he moves the goalposts.

Reality is we need Trey or Brock to turn into the guy. They need O line protection sure but that alone won't make them viable. If they become viable they can do what Mahomes does and make the O line look better than it is. He did that in the AFC title game multiple times. Chiefs O line was exposed plenty.

I agree with you that QB held us back more than anything and McG isnt horrible, I just feel we can do better. But we agree the o line has to protect the QB so he can do his job. It scares me that we want to develop Trey and Brock, but if they are running for their lives, or the right side never gives them time to settle in then how will they develop etc. For me id make sure the o line was as good as possible regardless.