49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
What would Kyle Shanahan do with a QB like Mahomes?

Would Mahomes be as good if he were playing in Kyle's system instead of Reid's system?

Also, what would Jimmy G, Lance, or Purdy look like in Reid's system?

Kyle likes the run game. I think he'd run more than Reid would, even with Mahomes. Ironically, in the Eagles game he got a bit away from the run game and it cost him. Similarly to his past championship endeavors where he seems to get impatient and get away from the run game. I think Rieds background as an OLine coach gives him a bit of advantage in coaching pass protections and developing OLinemen. He has that advantage over most of the coaches except Bellichick who is also another OLine-centric coach.

You think Kyle would continue to run the same run first system even with a prolific passing QB like Mahomes on the roster?

I think so. He's changed his thinking since Atlanta, and plays complementary football. Ie keep away/take away football.

I'm hoping, with Purdy (and hopefully with the development of Lance) that mix changes slightly. I think he's a talented run and pass game designer, but with a leaning towards the run game because of the QBs he's had in the past.

You guys talk about Shanahan like he's allergic to passing. That's clearly not the case. It just happens to be that running the ball eats more clock. When you have a stout defense and a lead, running the ball is the smartest play toward preserving a win. The 49ers are often playing with a lead in the 4th so it naturally ends up being a heavier split on running the ball, but when we are in the middle of it battling it out, he feels very evenly split and oftentimes surprises me with pass plays when I'd think he'd be more likely to run.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
What would Kyle Shanahan do with a QB like Mahomes?

Would Mahomes be as good if he were playing in Kyle's system instead of Reid's system?

Also, what would Jimmy G, Lance, or Purdy look like in Reid's system?

Kyle likes the run game. I think he'd run more than Reid would, even with Mahomes. Ironically, in the Eagles game he got a bit away from the run game and it cost him. Similarly to his past championship endeavors where he seems to get impatient and get away from the run game. I think Rieds background as an OLine coach gives him a bit of advantage in coaching pass protections and developing OLinemen. He has that advantage over most of the coaches except Bellichick who is also another OLine-centric coach.

You think Kyle would continue to run the same run first system even with a prolific passing QB like Mahomes on the roster?

I think so. He's changed his thinking since Atlanta, and plays complementary football. Ie keep away/take away football.

I'm hoping, with Purdy (and hopefully with the development of Lance) that mix changes slightly. I think he's a talented run and pass game designer, but with a leaning towards the run game because of the QBs he's had in the past.

So what do you think Kyle would do if he had Mahomes?

Would Mahomes be as good if he were playing in Kyle's system instead of Reid's system?

Also, what would Jimmy G, Lance, or Purdy look like in Reid's system?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by krizay:
To me it appears when teams are stopping the run. They don't go for all that motion crap. They don't adjust their defense at all. Those are the times I wish he would just like up and play.

Juice essentially said same thing I think it was during the Dallas play off game. When he and the RBs basically asked him to quit the motions and run right at them.

So.....

Yeah it should depend on opponent.

Analytics showed that Dallas was one of the best, if not the best against presnap motions. They were too disciplined for that to be effective. Juice pointed that out to Kyle and they started rolling.

This is very true as you get deeper in the playoffs. The defenses get more disciplined and more talented. Play fakes and the assorted misdirection plays don't work as well the deeper you go in the playoffs.

At that point your teams execution is key as well as the sheer talent your team becomes important. One possible adjustment would be to not adjust or do a lot of motions. Basically - change up and just play smash mouth for a quarter or two, then change up again later - back to motions and fakes.

In other words, as much as Kyle likes to be balanced and unpredictable in the playoffs, maybe the secret is to just line up and go toe to toe - establish that run dominance, and then go from there.

That is not true. It was reported that the Eagles defense were bad against pre snap motion and it ended up making a huge impact in the SB. Bay2Bay is correct in that it is opponent dependent.

Once you get to the final four, these are talented teams. They (example Eagles) May be bad at pre-snap motions, but they won 14 games for a reason. My point is simply that sometimes Kyle just has to (as Krizay said) just line up and play smash mouth football, and forget the fancy shmancy motion eye-candy stuff once he gets to a certain level. That's where the big powerful OLines and DLines come into play. Most defensive Teams are too good to get fooled often once you are deep in the playoffs.

Your point was that the deeper you get into the playoffs, the more disciplined the defenses are and therefor the less vulnerable they are to play fakes and misdirection. The eagles were not disciplined in the area of play fakes and misdirection and it showed in the SB. We had the number 1 defense going into the playoffs with one of the best MLB's in the league and Philly's zone read and RPO's made him and our top rush defense look average in the redzone giving up 4 TD's on the ground. So again, like Bay2Bay said, it is oppenent dependent. That stuff works against a defense like the eagles but doesn't against a defense like the cowboys.

It certainly didn't work against the Eagles as Purdy got hurt. Now Reid does the same stuff that Kyle does (in a sense) but when Ried did it, his QB wasn't injured the way Purdy was injured. That may be a function the kind of QB Reid has, the kind of OLinemen he has, or scheme.

All I'm saying is that Shanahan has to reevaluate this schemes/personnel/coaching to tune it better for the playoffs. FACT: he's been ousted twice in the NFCCG - it would be less than stupid to *not* reevaluate everything in order to improve the NFCCG game performance for another 2023 run.

Finally good defenses, like Dallas and/or Our defense, as you said - don't fall for all the gimmicky eye candy stuff, so why bother. Just go smash mouth and then once they have adjust that way, hit them with the gimmicky stuff when they aren't expecting it. I just don't think Kyle did enough smash mouth vs Eagles vs how Reid handled the Eagles. Again, just my point of view.

I don't agree that good defenses don't fall for "eye candy stuff". Those PHI DBs fell for it in the SB, and they play on a good defense. Every down is different and even if a defense doesn't "fall for it", presnap motion still gives the QB information that they can use to better understand what they are about to face. It's free information, and if the defense does "fall for it", it causes blown coverages.

To better understand why presnap motion can cause blown coverages, you have to understand the concept of pattern matching. When a defense is in a pattern match coverage, they assign numbers to WRs on the field. When those WRs swap places (pre snap motion), it forces presnap communication to be on point or defenses will struggle with what to do once the ball is snapped. Here's Huf blowing his assignment (Huf should not be double covering the #1 since Mooney already has him) - Huf is a good player on a good defense.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by glorydayz:
What would Kyle Shanahan do with a QB like Mahomes?

Would Mahomes be as good if he were playing in Kyle's system instead of Reid's system?

Also, what would Jimmy G, Lance, or Purdy look like in Reid's system?

Kyle likes the run game. I think he'd run more than Reid would, even with Mahomes. Ironically, in the Eagles game he got a bit away from the run game and it cost him. Similarly to his past championship endeavors where he seems to get impatient and get away from the run game. I think Rieds background as an OLine coach gives him a bit of advantage in coaching pass protections and developing OLinemen. He has that advantage over most of the coaches except Bellichick who is also another OLine-centric coach.

You think Kyle would continue to run the same run first system even with a prolific passing QB like Mahomes on the roster?

I think so. He's changed his thinking since Atlanta, and plays complementary football. Ie keep away/take away football.

I'm hoping, with Purdy (and hopefully with the development of Lance) that mix changes slightly. I think he's a talented run and pass game designer, but with a leaning towards the run game because of the QBs he's had in the past.

You guys talk about Shanahan like he's allergic to passing. That's clearly not the case. It just happens to be that running the ball eats more clock. When you have a stout defense and a lead, running the ball is the smartest play toward preserving a win. The 49ers are often playing with a lead in the 4th so it naturally ends up being a heavier split on running the ball, but when we are in the middle of it battling it out, he feels very evenly split and oftentimes surprises me with pass plays when I'd think he'd be more likely to run.

When Kyle talks about being a balanced attack with regards to passing versus rushing, he is not talking about calling 50% run plays and 50% pass plays, he is talking about being able to do both equally as effective. If a defense comes out in nickel personnel the entire game to combat the 49ers 21 personnel, Kyle would most likely run the ball a lot because that is the weakness in the defense. Likewise, if the defense puts 8 in the box versus the 49ers 3WRs, then Kyle is going to pass the ball. It's not about 50/50 ratio in run versus pass playcalls, it's about being able to attack whatever the defense is not defending.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Riddick was in pass rush mode. A run would have at least netted some positive yardage and made him think about that, the next time that down and distance occurs. Ried averaged something like 6+ yards per carry going against that Eagle defense. I just don't get why Kyle would call a pass so soon in the game. Unless its impatience or aggressive overconfidence.

Note, I am not saying Kyle is an idiot. On the contrary he's a top flight coach. I'm very grateful he's our coach. I just think that's one of his blind spots.

Kyle called 3 runs and 2 short passes before the PA pass where Purdy gets hurt and that is too being aggressive?

Well on Andy's first drive VS Philly in the SB : 1st play was a run with Pacheco, 2nd play was a PA pass to Kelce with the backup TE picking up Reddick.

Originally posted by evil:
Kyle called 3 runs and 2 short passes before the PA pass where Purdy gets hurt and that is too being aggressive?

Well on Andy's first drive VS Philly in the SB : 1st play was a run with Pacheco, 2nd play was a PA pass to Kelce with the backup TE picking up Reddick.

No no no Reid is a master play caller and NEVER gets it wrong. lol. He totally called for Mahomes to randomly scramble for 30 yards on the biggest play of the game. He totally told the players to line up wrong on those TD plays in the RZ lol.

Mahomes first pass of the game he's got a backup TE blocking Reddick haha you can't make this s**t up.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by evil:
Kyle called 3 runs and 2 short passes before the PA pass where Purdy gets hurt and that is too being aggressive?

Well on Andy's first drive VS Philly in the SB : 1st play was a run with Pacheco, 2nd play was a PA pass to Kelce with the backup TE picking up Reddick.

No no no Reid is a master play caller and NEVER gets it wrong. lol. He totally called for Mahomes to randomly scramble for 30 yards on the biggest play of the game. He totally told the players to line up wrong on those TD plays in the RZ lol.

Mahomes first pass of the game he's got a backup TE blocking Reddick haha you can't make this s**t up.

'Ring around the rosey pocket full of posies', genius.
Prensap motion, gimmicky and won't work.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
This is all I see in their posts

Funny, I that's what I think of your posts too

Originally posted by dmax:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
This is all I see in their posts

Funny, I that's what I think of your posts too

"I that's what I think"

Originally posted by thl408:
'Ring around the rosey pocket full of posies', genius.
Prensap motion, gimmicky and won't work.

if only we had a real HC like P.J. Fleck 😂

all this b***hing and not a single sensible answer to their question (who's the HC then?)

I'm f**king proud we got a HC that the rest of the league is trying so hard to get any piece of.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by thl408:
'Ring around the rosey pocket full of posies', genius.
Prensap motion, gimmicky and won't work.

if only we had a real HC like P.J. Fleck 😂

all this b***hing and not a single sensible answer to their question (who's the HC then?)

I'm f**king proud we got a HC that the rest of the league is trying so hard to get any piece of.

Kyle is still learning on the job, I think he can get a lot better. He was a very young first time head coach and it takes a long time to figure it all out.

I just cannot stand switching head coaches every few years!

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by thl408:
'Ring around the rosey pocket full of posies', genius.
Prensap motion, gimmicky and won't work.

if only we had a real HC like P.J. Fleck 😂

all this b***hing and not a single sensible answer to their question (who's the HC then?)

I'm f**king proud we got a HC that the rest of the league is trying so hard to get any piece of.

Kyle is still learning on the job, I think he can get a lot better. He was a very young first time head coach and it takes a long time to figure it all out.

I just cannot stand switching head coaches every few years!

We just have to wait for Kyle to get his SB appearance and victory. Eventually it will come. He's not only a good coach, I think he's also a HOF coach. Almost every year, half of his assistants get hired as head coaches and promoted as coordinators with other teams. That speaks volume of a really good teacher and mentor. I think this year our defense will even be more deadly and more feared by every opponents we're going to play next year. Our linebacker and DLine play is one of the best and with Wilks, it's the time our secondary will find its place on the top and I think Wilks is a better coordinator than Demeco. Our offense, will still be our offense of course. Cross finger.

Originally posted by 49erF90:

Originally posted by glorydayz:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by thl408:
'Ring around the rosey pocket full of posies', genius.
Prensap motion, gimmicky and won't work.

if only we had a real HC like P.J. Fleck 😂

all this b***hing and not a single sensible answer to their question (who's the HC then?)

I'm f**king proud we got a HC that the rest of the league is trying so hard to get any piece of.

Kyle is still learning on the job, I think he can get a lot better. He was a very young first time head coach and it takes a long time to figure it all out.

I just cannot stand switching head coaches every few years!

We just have to wait for Kyle to get his SB appearance and victory. Eventually it will come. He's not only a good coach, I think he's also a HOF coach. Almost every year, half of his assistants get hired as head coaches and promoted as coordinators with other teams. That speaks volume of a really good teacher and mentor. I think this year our defense will even be more deadly and more feared by every opponents we're going to play next year. Our linebacker and DLine play is one of the best and with Wilks, it's the time our secondary will find its place on the top and I think Wilks is a better coordinator than Demeco. Our offense, will still be our offense of course. Cross finger.

Wilks may be our best DC since Fangio but we have to let it play out.

Kyle is not a HOF Coach at this point, not even close. Do you think Mike Tomlin is a H.O.F Coach?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by krizay:
To me it appears when teams are stopping the run. They don't go for all that motion crap. They don't adjust their defense at all. Those are the times I wish he would just like up and play.

Juice essentially said same thing I think it was during the Dallas play off game. When he and the RBs basically asked him to quit the motions and run right at them.

So.....

Yeah it should depend on opponent.

Analytics showed that Dallas was one of the best, if not the best against presnap motions. They were too disciplined for that to be effective. Juice pointed that out to Kyle and they started rolling.

This is very true as you get deeper in the playoffs. The defenses get more disciplined and more talented. Play fakes and the assorted misdirection plays don't work as well the deeper you go in the playoffs.

At that point your teams execution is key as well as the sheer talent your team becomes important. One possible adjustment would be to not adjust or do a lot of motions. Basically - change up and just play smash mouth for a quarter or two, then change up again later - back to motions and fakes.

In other words, as much as Kyle likes to be balanced and unpredictable in the playoffs, maybe the secret is to just line up and go toe to toe - establish that run dominance, and then go from there.

That is not true. It was reported that the Eagles defense were bad against pre snap motion and it ended up making a huge impact in the SB. Bay2Bay is correct in that it is opponent dependent.

Once you get to the final four, these are talented teams. They (example Eagles) May be bad at pre-snap motions, but they won 14 games for a reason. My point is simply that sometimes Kyle just has to (as Krizay said) just line up and play smash mouth football, and forget the fancy shmancy motion eye-candy stuff once he gets to a certain level. That's where the big powerful OLines and DLines come into play. Most defensive Teams are too good to get fooled often once you are deep in the playoffs.

Your point was that the deeper you get into the playoffs, the more disciplined the defenses are and therefor the less vulnerable they are to play fakes and misdirection. The eagles were not disciplined in the area of play fakes and misdirection and it showed in the SB. We had the number 1 defense going into the playoffs with one of the best MLB's in the league and Philly's zone read and RPO's made him and our top rush defense look average in the redzone giving up 4 TD's on the ground. So again, like Bay2Bay said, it is oppenent dependent. That stuff works against a defense like the eagles but doesn't against a defense like the cowboys.

It certainly didn't work against the Eagles as Purdy got hurt. Now Reid does the same stuff that Kyle does (in a sense) but when Ried did it, his QB wasn't injured the way Purdy was injured. That may be a function the kind of QB Reid has, the kind of OLinemen he has, or scheme.

All I'm saying is that Shanahan has to reevaluate this schemes/personnel/coaching to tune it better for the playoffs. FACT: he's been ousted twice in the NFCCG - it would be less than stupid to *not* reevaluate everything in order to improve the NFCCG game performance for another 2023 run.

Finally good defenses, like Dallas and/or Our defense, as you said - don't fall for all the gimmicky eye candy stuff, so why bother. Just go smash mouth and then once they have adjust that way, hit them with the gimmicky stuff when they aren't expecting it. I just don't think Kyle did enough smash mouth vs Eagles vs how Reid handled the Eagles. Again, just my point of view.

What exactly didn't work before Purdy got hurt? He got injured like 4 plays into the game. The knock on Philly's defense going into the championship game was how they were poor against pre snap motion. We have no idea what the game would have looked like if Purdy didn't get injured. What we did see is how vulnerable that defense was in the SB. You know what I said is fact and now you are trying to move the goal posts.

Looks like Kyle is vacationing with Trent, Deebo, Kittle, CMC, and Juice at the moment. That's awesome. The players must love him.