49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

The place will be brighter once Cousins, other decent players sign with us, we get a great pick. Optimist want people to see that now, but sometimes you can only net Jonas Jennings, Clements in free agency. Just because we hacpve the $ doesn't mean the players will be there. I don't think trust should be handed to Shanny. He's obviously not going to get fired, no one is calling for that, but people are going to express frustration on a sh season because that's the present.

Originally posted by mrbusinessman499:

What if we don't win a game this year? Will any of y'all lose confidence in Kyle?

Frankly I'm losing confidence in him to get the job done.

Originally posted by paulk205:
I think the mistake in this reasoning is that you assume that we should start with confidence in a coach, and that he can keep it or lose it. Why?

I start with NO confidence in players, coaches, or the team. They earn it on past good performance and victories. If they lose they keep their default"no confidence" status. It's worse when they come with high expectations and plaudits about "talent" and "genius". Then they have to do even more to earn my confidence. They're geniuses, aren't they not? This should be easy for geniuses.

Shanahan has done little so far to earn my confidence. Some short stretches here and there, but overall I see a team of sloppy losers. When he starts to deliver professional performances and victories, hey presto, here's my confidence.

The problem with these threads is that people have a tendency to confuse supporting the team with taking its crap when it's crap. I'm not going to accept 0-7 , leading the league in penalties, or worse, "moral victories". I root for the team... to win. If they don't, I get upset. Then by the next gametime I root for the team again. To win. Properly, not morally. And not for high draft picks either.

These narratives of "progress", "moral victories", "trusting processes", and "potential" are unacceptable to me as a supporter and a consumer. They are maintained to keep getting my money and my emotional investment in the team and accept an inferior product. Forget about it.

People make fun of Philadelphia fans (of whom I'm one in baseball) because of their bitterness. I say they are the best fans. They suffer (and pay for) because of incredibly sloppy performances and long stretches of no success, and they make their unhappiness clear. Why should they have to be happy about it?

It's funny how people grab on to a point they allege someone else made as a justification for their own counter arguments. Things like "moral victories", I don't think I have seen a single poster who is preaching patience or process (yes, that is something I do believe in) use the term moral victory to describe a loss. That is something that seems to come from the people who, for whatever reason, have failed to grasp the notion that the team probably wasn't going to be very good this year under even the best of circumstances and continue to get their panties in a twist over the fact that the team is playing more or less to expectations at this point. They have been competitive in most of their games this year and are a few plays away from having a slightly better record than they do. It is easy to look at them and believe that one of these weeks they are going to put together a whole game and come away with a win, though that probably won't be against Philadelphia.

No one should have thought that Hoyer was going to be any good though clearly Shanahan hoped his experience in the system would be an asset. As soon as that proved not to be the case he benched him, which gave Beathard a chance to earn some valuable practice reps and not have his confidence blown up by a bunch of early season beat downs. Now that he is the starter we'll see what happens, patience and process.

The defense was hurt by losing Malcolm Smith and Foster and possibly Carradine, there is also the challenge of having a first time defensive coordinator, running a new scheme which apparently requires a different skill set than those possessed by some of the recent defensive draft picks who were selected, like Dial and Armstead. This is the year in which those things will hopefully get sorted out. Their Head Coach, Defensive Coordinator, and GM are all in the first year of their jobs so there is bound to be some sort of a learning curve. They have a team running new schemes on both sides of the ball as well as a number of rookies and UDFA's who all need how to learn how the NFL game is played. If you listen to any of the interviews with Shanahan and Lynch they are both guys who want to win but they recognize that it might take a year or so to lay the foundation that will allow them to be competitive on a regular basis, which is what their goal is. Wins are nice but they aren't really necessary to the process this year. I am not a person who ever advocates tanking a season for some extra advantage in the draft but if the team is going to be bad this might not be a bad year to do it since there are apparently a few QB's coming out next year who are thought to be pretty good and finishing with a high draft pick would keep them from having to give up a lot if they decided there was someone they just had to have and would give them a better chance to get some other decent players, ones who might better fit the system they are trying to run. Process and patience.

Unlike some of the posters in here I have more confidence in the evident improvement of Shanahan's offensive scheme over what we have had in the past few years. The design of the plays is there, where they have been falling down is in the execution, dropped passes, penalties, and on the other side of the ball more penalties and missed tackles. Some of that is on the coaches but a lot of it is on the players, all of whom are already auditioning for a spot on next year's roster. I'll admit that I am a little concerned by some of the huge chunk plays that the defense has given up in the running game but part of that could just be the lack of available talent among the linebackers, perhaps having Foster and Smith in there full time, as was envisioned, will help get that under control. And they still need a dominant edge rusher, which they haven't had since Aldon Smith's first couple of seasons. Hopefully these are things that can be addressed by having had a year to learn and evaluate what the team needs to take the next step forward.

I can honestly say that having had exactly zero expectations for the team this year I am not at all bothered by their current record. I see where they are improving and I can see where they still have work to do. I enjoy watching the new guys like Kittle and Taylor and Solomon to see how they are progressing. I would love to see Foster get through a whole game as I think he could be a very dynamic player. I'd like to see this kid they brought up from the practice squad, Cole what's his name, the undrafted TE who is supposed to be a good receiver. As long as the team continues to compete every game I can live with another down year, especially since they probably aren't going anywhere until they get the QB position fixed. Is Beathard the answer? I have no idea but finding out is one of the things that will make the rest of the season interesting to watch. Go Niners!!

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by paulk205:

I think the mistake in this reasoning is that you assume that we should start with confidence in a coach, and that he can keep it or lose it. Why?

I start with NO confidence in players, coaches, or the team. They earn it on past good performance and victories. If they lose they keep their default"no confidence" status. It's worse when they come with high expectations and plaudits about "talent" and "genius". Then they have to do even more to earn my confidence. They're geniuses, aren't they not? This should be easy for geniuses.

Shanahan has done little so far to earn my confidence. Some short stretches here and there, but overall I see a team of sloppy losers. When he starts to deliver professional performances and victories, hey presto, here's my confidence.

The problem with these threads is that people have a tendency to confuse supporting the team with taking its crap when it's crap. I'm not going to accept 0-7 , leading the league in penalties, or worse, "moral victories". I root for the team... to win. If they don't, I get upset. Then by the next gametime I root for the team again. To win. Properly, not morally. And not for high draft picks either.

These narratives of "progress", "moral victories", "trusting processes", and "potential" are unacceptable to me as a supporter and a consumer. They are maintained to keep getting my money and my emotional investment in the team and accept an inferior product. Forget about it.

People make fun of Philadelphia fans (of whom I'm one in baseball) because of their bitterness. I say they are the best fans. They suffer (and pay for) because of incredibly sloppy performances and long stretches of no success, and they make their unhappiness clear. Why should they have to be happy about it?

It's funny how people grab on to a point they allege someone else made as a justification for their own counter arguments. Things like "moral victories", I don't think I have seen a single poster who is preaching patience or process (yes, that is something I do believe in) use the term moral victory to describe a loss. That is something that seems to come from the people who, for whatever reason, have failed to grasp the notion that the team probably wasn't going to be very good this year under even the best of circumstances and continue to get their panties in a twist over the fact that the team is playing more or less to expectations at this point. They have been competitive in most of their games this year and are a few plays away from having a slightly better record than they do. It is easy to look at them and believe that one of these weeks they are going to put together a whole game and come away with a win, though that probably won't be against Philadelphia.

No one should have thought that Hoyer was going to be any good though clearly Shanahan hoped his experience in the system would be an asset. As soon as that proved not to be the case he benched him, which gave Beathard a chance to earn some valuable practice reps and not have his confidence blown up by a bunch of early season beat downs. Now that he is the starter we'll see what happens, patience and process.

The defense was hurt by losing Malcolm Smith and Foster and possibly Carradine, there is also the challenge of having a first time defensive coordinator, running a new scheme which apparently requires a different skill set than those possessed by some of the recent defensive draft picks who were selected, like Dial and Armstead. This is the year in which those things will hopefully get sorted out. Their Head Coach, Defensive Coordinator, and GM are all in the first year of their jobs so there is bound to be some sort of a learning curve. They have a team running new schemes on both sides of the ball as well as a number of rookies and UDFA's who all need how to learn how the NFL game is played. If you listen to any of the interviews with Shanahan and Lynch they are both guys who want to win but they recognize that it might take a year or so to lay the foundation that will allow them to be competitive on a regular basis, which is what their goal is. Wins are nice but they aren't really necessary to the process this year. I am not a person who ever advocates tanking a season for some extra advantage in the draft but if the team is going to be bad this might not be a bad year to do it since there are apparently a few QB's coming out next year who are thought to be pretty good and finishing with a high draft pick would keep them from having to give up a lot if they decided there was someone they just had to have and would give them a better chance to get some other decent players, ones who might better fit the system they are trying to run. Process and patience.

Unlike some of the posters in here I have more confidence in the evident improvement of Shanahan's offensive scheme over what we have had in the past few years. The design of the plays is there, where they have been falling down is in the execution, dropped passes, penalties, and on the other side of the ball more penalties and missed tackles. Some of that is on the coaches but a lot of it is on the players, all of whom are already auditioning for a spot on next year's roster. I'll admit that I am a little concerned by some of the huge chunk plays that the defense has given up in the running game but part of that could just be the lack of available talent among the linebackers, perhaps having Foster and Smith in there full time, as was envisioned, will help get that under control. And they still need a dominant edge rusher, which they haven't had since Aldon Smith's first couple of seasons. Hopefully these are things that can be addressed by having had a year to learn and evaluate what the team needs to take the next step forward.

I can honestly say that having had exactly zero expectations for the team this year I am not at all bothered by their current record. I see where they are improving and I can see where they still have work to do. I enjoy watching the new guys like Kittle and Taylor and Solomon to see how they are progressing. I would love to see Foster get through a whole game as I think he could be a very dynamic player. I'd like to see this kid they brought up from the practice squad, Cole what's his name, the undrafted TE who is supposed to be a good receiver. As long as the team continues to compete every game I can live with another down year, especially since they probably aren't going anywhere until they get the QB position fixed. Is Beathard the answer? I have no idea but finding out is one of the things that will make the rest of the season interesting to watch. Go Niners!!

+1....extremely good post.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:

Originally posted by paulk205:

Originally posted by mrbusinessman499:

What if we don't win a game this year? Will any of y'all lose confidence in Kyle?

I think the mistake in this reasoning is that you assume that we should start with confidence in a coach, and that he can keep it or lose it. Why?

I start with NO confidence in players, coaches, or the team. They earn it on past good performance and victories. If they lose they keep their default"no confidence" status. It's worse when they come with high expectations and plaudits about "talent" and "genius". Then they have to do even more to earn my confidence. They're geniuses, aren't they not? This should be easy for geniuses.

Shanahan has done little so far to earn my confidence. Some short stretches here and there, but overall I see a team of sloppy losers. When he starts to deliver professional performances and victories, hey presto, here's my confidence.

The problem with these threads is that people have a tendency to confuse supporting the team with taking its crap when it's crap. I'm not going to accept 0-7 , leading the league in penalties, or worse, "moral victories". I root for the team... to win. If they don't, I get upset. Then by the next gametime I root for the team again. To win. Properly, not morally. And not for high draft picks either.

These narratives of "progress", "moral victories", "trusting processes", and "potential" are unacceptable to me as a supporter and a consumer. They are maintained to keep getting my money and my emotional investment in the team and accept an inferior product. Forget about it.

People make fun of Philadelphia fans (of whom I'm one in baseball) because of their bitterness. I say they are the best fans. They suffer (and pay for) because of incredibly sloppy performances and long stretches of no success, and they make their unhappiness clear. Why should they have to be happy about it?

Solid post.

+1

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by mrbusinessman499:
What if we don't win a game this year? Will any of y'all lose confidence in Kyle?

Frankly I'm losing confidence in him to get the job done.

Any reasonable people would begin to lose confidence in the guy.

Offensive genius, together with Lynch had total free hand in pretty much churning over the entire roster as they saw fit and you are telling me he is not going to win a game or two more than Chip Kelly??!! Are you serious?!

Just in case anyone forgets, if we lose this Eagles game, Kyle Shanahan will be breaking the all-time 49ers franchise record of having the longest losing streak. Can you imagine that??!! That is flat out embarrassing!!

Sure, he talks a good game, but at the moment it has been all talk and no action.

And let's put this into context, in the real world, not everyone can get the job done, that is just a fact and teams change head coaches all the time. We can't just assume Kyle Shanahan can get it done just because he is supposed to be better than Tomsula and Chip Kelly. For starters, it doesn't even look likely he can win more games than Chip Kelly did last year.

I hope he can get his act together soon. But, I have zero confidence that we will win any games this year. I think the locker room is almost getting used to the idea of losing now. If we are not careful, we could become the Cleveland Browns West cos losing could become a habit if you are not careful.

The roster moves and trade talks also don't help neither. You cut Bow and rumours surface about trading Carlos Hyde and may be even Joe Staley. You bench your starting QB in favour of a rookie and now pushing Eric Reid over to linebacker, etc, etc. When players see and hear these types of moves, then they know we have reached the point of total hopelessness. Is hard to stay motivated and still have to go out and win games. In my opinion, this is a mistake, by doing so you give people the impression that you are desperate and will cut anyone just to experiment without a clear direction.

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by mrbusinessman499:
What if we don't win a game this year? Will any of y'all lose confidence in Kyle?

Frankly I'm losing confidence in him to get the job done.

Why, sus? We have a real bad roster to get the job done. You can't put that on Shanahan, your only as good as your players.

Originally posted by Rascal:

Offensive genius, together with Lynch had total free hand in pretty much churning over the entire roster as they saw fit and you are telling me he is not going to win a game or two more than Chip Kelly??!! Are you serious?!

You act like we are three years into this regime instead of just half a season. Churning over the entire roster? They had to make due with what they already had and a few available free agents. You act like they were able to sign their #1 choice for each position. There weren't a lot of players looking to sign with a 2-14 team with new staff/front office and no QB on the roster. Not unless you want to throw around terrible contracts for average players. 26 of the 68 spots on the roster are players who were already on the team (and 8 of those are on IR). Almost all of those 68 players are/were learning a completely new system. They also had the shortest amount of time to put together a coaching staff.

Do you realize the only team Chip Kelly beat was the Rams, who are 100x better than they were in 2016? We also have one of the toughest schedules in the league. Chip Kelly was also losing every other game by 14+. This team is definitely outperforming the team of 2016, even though it might not show up in the W/L record.

For me, yeah, it sucks to lose. I also recognized this team would not get rebuilt in one year (much less by Week 8), and am okay with a team that shows improvement even if it doesn't result in wins in this first year. I'd rather go 0-16 and have great draft picks for 2018, than win 3-5 meaningless games in 2017.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by Rascal:

Offensive genius, together with Lynch had total free hand in pretty much churning over the entire roster as they saw fit and you are telling me he is not going to win a game or two more than Chip Kelly??!! Are you serious?!

You act like we are three years into this regime instead of just half a season. Churning over the entire roster? They had to make due with what they already had and a few available free agents. You act like they were able to sign their #1 choice for each position. There weren't a lot of players looking to sign with a 2-14 team with new staff/front office and no QB on the roster. Not unless you want to throw around terrible contracts for average players. 26 of the 68 spots on the roster are players who were already on the team (and 8 of those are on IR). Almost all of those 68 players are/were learning a completely new system. They also had the shortest amount of time to put together a coaching staff.

Do you realize the only team Chip Kelly beat was the Rams, who are 100x better than they were in 2016? We also have one of the toughest schedules in the league. Chip Kelly was also losing every other game by 14+. This team is definitely outperforming the team of 2016, even though it might not show up in the W/L record.

For me, yeah, it sucks to lose. I also recognized this team would not get rebuilt in one year, and am okay with a team that shows improvement even if it doesn't result in wins in this first year. I'd rather go 0-16 and have great draft picks for 2018, than win 3-5 meaningless games in 2017.

Pretty much this lol. Settle down now you lil rascal Been stirring up the pot too much... Just relax

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
You act like we are three years into this regime instead of just half a season. Churning over the entire roster? They had to make due with what they already had and a few available free agents. You act like they were able to sign their #1 choice for each position. There weren't a lot of players looking to sign with a 2-14 team with new staff/front office and no QB on the roster. Not unless you want to throw around terrible contracts for average players. 26 of the 68 spots on the roster are players who were already on the team (and 8 of those are on IR). Almost all of those 68 players are/were learning a completely new system. They also had the shortest amount of time to put together a coaching staff.

Do you realize the only team Chip Kelly beat was the Rams, who are 100x better than they were in 2016? We also have one of the toughest schedules in the league. Chip Kelly was also losing every other game by 14+. This team is definitely outperforming the team of 2016, even though it might not show up in the W/L record.

For me, yeah, it sucks to lose. I also recognized this team would not get rebuilt in one year (much less by Week 8), and am okay with a team that shows improvement even if it doesn't result in wins in this first year. I'd rather go 0-16 and have great draft picks for 2018, than win 3-5 meaningless games in 2017.

A 20-17 overall record isn't that tough and good luck selling yourself to free agents coming off an 0-16 season. We can overpay but so can other teams and most guys will go to the average team who can win. The amount of people willing to be a embarrassment for a 50/50 pick is insane.

Kyle is fine.

You guys want him on the sideline with a bazooka to take the other team out. or our guys when they mess up.

Nobody expected 0-7, but let's get real, this team was not going to be good this year. That 5 game run was historically wonky, but shows me promise.

There have been bumps and bruises, but a tough start like this will make him better in the long run. If (a big if for sure) they build something and are winning a few years down the road players and other coaches will have respect.

1-15 please

lol Niner "fans". Crying and whining, as usual.

Before the season, everyone was very calmly positive, fully acknowledging that we were going to be bad, and in a full rebuild. We come within 3 points of a win in an NFL record 5 consecutive weeks, clearly playing better than before, and everyone is annoyed, but mostly positive. Then we get man handled by a very good team at home, and now everyone is diving overboard screaming "Fire Kyle! This team is a disaster!"

Our fans are embarrassing.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Kyle is fine.

You guys want him on the sideline with a bazooka to take the other team out. or our guys when they mess up.

Nobody expected 0-7, but let's get real, this team was not going to be good this year. That 5 game run was historically wonky, but shows me promise.

There have been bumps and bruises, but a tough start like this will make him better in the long run. If (a big if for sure) they build something and are winning a few years down the road players and other coaches will have respect.

1-15 please

As long as Hoyer isnt holding the bazooka we'll be fine.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Originally posted by paulk205:
I think the mistake in this reasoning is that you assume that we should start with confidence in a coach, and that he can keep it or lose it. Why?

I start with NO confidence in players, coaches, or the team. They earn it on past good performance and victories. If they lose they keep their default"no confidence" status. It's worse when they come with high expectations and plaudits about "talent" and "genius". Then they have to do even more to earn my confidence. They're geniuses, aren't they not? This should be easy for geniuses.

Shanahan has done little so far to earn my confidence. Some short stretches here and there, but overall I see a team of sloppy losers. When he starts to deliver professional performances and victories, hey presto, here's my confidence.

The problem with these threads is that people have a tendency to confuse supporting the team with taking its crap when it's crap. I'm not going to accept 0-7 , leading the league in penalties, or worse, "moral victories". I root for the team... to win. If they don't, I get upset. Then by the next gametime I root for the team again. To win. Properly, not morally. And not for high draft picks either.

These narratives of "progress", "moral victories", "trusting processes", and "potential" are unacceptable to me as a supporter and a consumer. They are maintained to keep getting my money and my emotional investment in the team and accept an inferior product. Forget about it.

People make fun of Philadelphia fans (of whom I'm one in baseball) because of their bitterness. I say they are the best fans. They suffer (and pay for) because of incredibly sloppy performances and long stretches of no success, and they make their unhappiness clear. Why should they have to be happy about it?

It's funny how people grab on to a point they allege someone else made as a justification for their own counter arguments. Things like "moral victories", I don't think I have seen a single poster who is preaching patience or process (yes, that is something I do believe in) use the term moral victory to describe a loss. That is something that seems to come from the people who, for whatever reason, have failed to grasp the notion that the team probably wasn't going to be very good this year under even the best of circumstances and continue to get their panties in a twist over the fact that the team is playing more or less to expectations at this point. They have been competitive in most of their games this year and are a few plays away from having a slightly better record than they do. It is easy to look at them and believe that one of these weeks they are going to put together a whole game and come away with a win, though that probably won't be against Philadelphia.

No one should have thought that Hoyer was going to be any good though clearly Shanahan hoped his experience in the system would be an asset. As soon as that proved not to be the case he benched him, which gave Beathard a chance to earn some valuable practice reps and not have his confidence blown up by a bunch of early season beat downs. Now that he is the starter we'll see what happens, patience and process.

The defense was hurt by losing Malcolm Smith and Foster and possibly Carradine, there is also the challenge of having a first time defensive coordinator, running a new scheme which apparently requires a different skill set than those possessed by some of the recent defensive draft picks who were selected, like Dial and Armstead. This is the year in which those things will hopefully get sorted out. Their Head Coach, Defensive Coordinator, and GM are all in the first year of their jobs so there is bound to be some sort of a learning curve. They have a team running new schemes on both sides of the ball as well as a number of rookies and UDFA's who all need how to learn how the NFL game is played. If you listen to any of the interviews with Shanahan and Lynch they are both guys who want to win but they recognize that it might take a year or so to lay the foundation that will allow them to be competitive on a regular basis, which is what their goal is. Wins are nice but they aren't really necessary to the process this year. I am not a person who ever advocates tanking a season for some extra advantage in the draft but if the team is going to be bad this might not be a bad year to do it since there are apparently a few QB's coming out next year who are thought to be pretty good and finishing with a high draft pick would keep them from having to give up a lot if they decided there was someone they just had to have and would give them a better chance to get some other decent players, ones who might better fit the system they are trying to run. Process and patience.

Unlike some of the posters in here I have more confidence in the evident improvement of Shanahan's offensive scheme over what we have had in the past few years. The design of the plays is there, where they have been falling down is in the execution, dropped passes, penalties, and on the other side of the ball more penalties and missed tackles. Some of that is on the coaches but a lot of it is on the players, all of whom are already auditioning for a spot on next year's roster. I'll admit that I am a little concerned by some of the huge chunk plays that the defense has given up in the running game but part of that could just be the lack of available talent among the linebackers, perhaps having Foster and Smith in there full time, as was envisioned, will help get that under control. And they still need a dominant edge rusher, which they haven't had since Aldon Smith's first couple of seasons. Hopefully these are things that can be addressed by having had a year to learn and evaluate what the team needs to take the next step forward.

I can honestly say that having had exactly zero expectations for the team this year I am not at all bothered by their current record. I see where they are improving and I can see where they still have work to do. I enjoy watching the new guys like Kittle and Taylor and Solomon to see how they are progressing. I would love to see Foster get through a whole game as I think he could be a very dynamic player. I'd like to see this kid they brought up from the practice squad, Cole what's his name, the undrafted TE who is supposed to be a good receiver. As long as the team continues to compete every game I can live with another down year, especially since they probably aren't going anywhere until they get the QB position fixed. Is Beathard the answer? I have no idea but finding out is one of the things that will make the rest of the season interesting to watch. Go Niners!!

+1....extremely good post.

+2

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Kyle is fine.

You guys want him on the sideline with a bazooka to take the other team out. or our guys when they mess up.

Nobody expected 0-7, but let's get real, this team was not going to be good this year. That 5 game run was historically wonky, but shows me promise.

There have been bumps and bruises, but a tough start like this will make him better in the long run. If (a big if for sure) they build something and are winning a few years down the road players and other coaches will have respect.

1-15 please

As long as Hoyer isnt holding the bazooka we'll be fine.

Hahah Hoyer was a tripmine man. I can't believe how bad he was.