49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Sorry, but no matter what you try to say to me it's as simple as giving Mahomes the last word in a championship game is as dumb as it gets, but I will explain my opinions along side yours in order.

1 & 2.
The players must play, but it doesn't hurt to understand game situations either. That shows a lack of communication between coaching staff and player. I didn't know this was the military with need to know pay grades etc.... It's the ultimate team sport. Just look at Juice's reaction on field when he found out Mahomes gets the ball no matter what. He was in disbelief.... Why did KC go over it and we did not?

2. KC players were dumbfounded we wanted the ball first. We know Reid would have deferred if they won the toss because he already decided he would knowing they need ether a field goal or a TD to match us and if it was a TD he was going to go for 2 and never give us a 3rd series knowing how tired the defenders were..... I am not saying thats not without its own gambles, but he has Mahomes and imo he had that planned out right. His best players, giving his team their best shot to win it.

3. Millions of what if's in life. Cant play scared. But if that's how Kyle thinks then the fire Kyle crowd may have a point.

4. I disagree here and this ties back into 1 and 2....They did play different because we not only gave Mahomes the ball last. We gave him 4 downs to do it which is massive imo given the situation. If the it was the other way around....Burford's horrific mistake would still have meant we had another down.

His best players were on defense...

As for your other points I saw all that. You still can't explain to me what it changes? Ok Juice was in disbelief...did this cause him to play worse? I personally would've kicked the ball off. I said to my wife at the time it makes sense to know what you have to match or exceed and have 4 downs to it. But in the end it didn't matter, it came down to us having to score a TD - we marched it all the way down there and had a play call that would've been a TD had Burford done what he was COACHED to do. He didn't. We settle for a FG(right decision)

Then the ask is for the defense that's filled with great players even if unfortunately missing Greenlaw to do what they've done pretty much all game long except after a fumbled punt - keep the KC offense out of the endzone.

They did not. The end. It's not a great look for Kyle that the players didn't know about the new rules but it changed nothing. They had a job to do and failed to do it. End of story. Anything that KC wanted to do or said means nothing after. What happens if we scored the TD on the opening drive and then Wilks has Bosa key on Mahomes vs the RB? Would we be arguing about how Kyle almost screwed up the SB by taking the ball first?

And it's not playing scared. It's playing based on what you're seeing on the field. People want to go for it on 4th down - until you don't get it. Once again check Dan Campbell. It's football. You get points and you stop the other team from getting theirs.

And for your last point once again...it changed nothing. We had a 4th down after the Burford mistake and smartly took the points. Assuming in your scenario KC scores a TD on the opening drive(first of all you're making an assumption they wouldn't keep going for it on 4th down regardless) what gives you the belief that we'd get a TD on the next play if we had a TD play called and couldn't get a proper block as designed?

It still came down to execution on both sides of the ball. We didn't execute. Had we done so it makes no difference on who got the ball first.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Sorry, but no matter what you try to say to me it's as simple as giving Mahomes the last word in a championship game is as dumb as it gets, but I will explain my opinions along side yours in order.

1 & 2.
The players must play, but it doesn't hurt to understand game situations either. That shows a lack of communication between coaching staff and player. I didn't know this was the military with need to know pay grades etc.... It's the ultimate team sport. Just look at Juice's reaction on field when he found out Mahomes gets the ball no matter what. He was in disbelief.... Why did KC go over it and we did not?

2. KC players were dumbfounded we wanted the ball first. We know Reid would have deferred if they won the toss because he already decided he would knowing they need ether a field goal or a TD to match us and if it was a TD he was going to go for 2 and never give us a 3rd series knowing how tired the defenders were..... I am not saying thats not without its own gambles, but he has Mahomes and imo he had that planned out right. His best players, giving his team their best shot to win it.

3. Millions of what if's in life. Cant play scared. But if that's how Kyle thinks then the fire Kyle crowd may have a point.

4. I disagree here and this ties back into 1 and 2....They did play different because we not only gave Mahomes the ball last. We gave him 4 downs to do it which is massive imo given the situation. If the it was the other way around....Burford's horrific mistake would still have meant we had another down.

His best players were on defense...

As for your other points I saw all that. You still can't explain to me what it changes? Ok Juice was in disbelief...did this cause him to play worse? I personally would've kicked the ball off. I said to my wife at the time it makes sense to know what you have to match or exceed and have 4 downs to it. But in the end it didn't matter, it came down to us having to score a TD - we marched it all the way down there and had a play call that would've been a TD had Burford done what he was COACHED to do. He didn't. We settle for a FG(right decision)

Then the ask is for the defense that's filled with great players even if unfortunately missing Greenlaw to do what they've done pretty much all game long except after a fumbled punt - keep the KC offense out of the endzone.

They did not. The end. It's not a great look for Kyle that the players didn't know about the new rules but it changed nothing. They had a job to do and failed to do it. End of story. Anything that KC wanted to do or said means nothing after. What happens if we scored the TD on the opening drive and then Wilks has Bosa key on Mahomes vs the RB? Would we be arguing about how Kyle almost screwed up the SB by taking the ball first?

And it's not playing scared. It's playing based on what you're seeing on the field. People want to go for it on 4th down - until you don't get it. Once again check Dan Campbell. It's football. You get points and you stop the other team from getting theirs.

And for your last point once again...it changed nothing. We had a 4th down after the Burford mistake and smartly took the points. Assuming in your scenario KC scores a TD on the opening drive(first of all you're making an assumption they wouldn't keep going for it on 4th down regardless) what gives you the belief that we'd get a TD on the next play if we had a TD play called and couldn't get a proper block as designed?

It still came down to execution on both sides of the ball. We didn't execute. Had we done so it makes no difference on who got the ball first.

I am saying KC knew they had 4 downs no matter what and we only gave ourselves 3. Execution is important, but in the end he game Mahomes the last word and he spoke.

Originally posted by Bringbackedjr:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
KS is an excellent coach - not perfect but without a doubt - excellent..

Many HC's fall into a trap of stubbornness and KS certainly does.

Every day he should start by watching the pathetic right side of the OLine in the SB.

Then go all-in on fixing it.

If Brock has an extra 2 seconds on the last drive we'd have won.

If, if, if… Kyle knows his players and he knows the weaknesses. My dog would have called runs to kill the clock and score for the win. Kyle apparently thought better of it and called passes. Clock stops. The rest Is part of Kyle's choking history…Kyle was the difference in the SB. Many outside of his fan club agree…. He deserves no praise for blowing 3 SBS. wait… he was an accessory to one and owns the KC Bowls outright. Great job Kyle. The genius of all geniuses.

Exactly. That's 4 gut wrenching post season losses full of "ifs" for his supporters. They excuse his miscomings by saying if certain things had happened the way Kyle thought they would happen, we would have won. Makes no sense.

And the second point is spot on. No one outside of his hardcore supporters has come out to back Kyle's game plan from the SB. Most pundits I've heard (players and media) question putting the ball in Mahomes hands at the end. Many question his OT decision. All of them scratch their heads discussing the 3rd quarter.

This failure has Kyle's stamp all over it, except for fan club here that has found all the reasons but Kyle for the team's second SB loss in 5 seasons.

Awful

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by Montana:
It is kinda weird that ppl are here to I guess defend him all day long, with every critical post. Just odd lol. Like Kyle needs some kind of savior to protect him from criticism lol.

I am sorry you are right, Kyle is the best coach ever, how could I have been so stupid and delusional? Next to Bill Walsh, he is the best..simply the best..actually, giving Bill a run for his money. He will probably have more rings than Bill too..just wait..it will happen

There are plenty of valid criticisms with Kyle we can discuss. Want to discuss structural flaws in his dropback pass game, questionable clock management, offensive pacing, rigidity with his system?

What we're mainly seeing is mostly bad arguments around play calls and a decision to kick/receive in OT. Nonsensical comparisons to previous years and teams. It's a football message board. It should probably be expected that people are going to disagree and challenge statements and it's going to get heated.

All of those critiques in your first paragraph can be applied to both SBs and NFCC game losses. Which in essence proves that Kyle has learned nothing in between the time he coaches SB 54 and SB 58. If the excuse is well we lost by 11 and this time we only lost by 4, so that's an upgrade then shame on you. Kyle got outcoached again and we saw the same boneheaded mistakes we've been witnessing since 54. Can you agree to that ?

Originally posted by Montana:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:
Nvm I take back what I said regarding you in the Purdy thread, keep up the s**t posting! 😂

Lol I get frustrated when I come back and read stuff here haha..so maybe I just won't read s**t here, waste of time really. There will be arguments all off season or until this guy wins an SB *cough* lol

It's like Kyle can do no wrong bs and that is what bothers me..he f**ked up, but for some, that is impossible but whatever..keep defending him forever.

Where are these posts that say Kyle can do no wrong? He definitely wasn't perfect, but neither was Reid, his offense put up 7 points in regulation. Chief fans were losing their mind on reddit in the SB GameDay thread.

Kyle has some blame as well, just like a bunch of our players in the game.

I keep seeing you guys posting that nobody is blaming Kyle, I've yet to see one post that says Kyle deserves no blame for the loss.

Originally posted by DrEll:
All of those critiques in your first paragraph can be applied to both SBs and NFCC game losses. Which in essence proves that Kyle has learned nothing in between the time he coaches SB 54 and SB 58. If the excuse is well we lost by 11 and this time we only lost by 4, so that's an upgrade then shame on you. Kyle got outcoached again and we saw the same boneheaded mistakes we've been witnessing since 54. Can you agree to that ?

Absolutely not, especially in the context of this SB. Kyle did not have any egregious coaching mistakes in this game and I think a great example of his growth was shown when he went for the 4th and 3, down 3 deep in Chiefs territory.

Have no idea how last year's championship game plays out if Purdy doesn't get hurt, but he did. Expecting Kyle to have a 4th and 5th QB available capable of beating last year's Eagles team on the road is absolute f**king nonsense.

And yes, I was critical of Kyle's 4th down decision against the Rams. That might have been a play that could put us in a much better spot to win. But to act like it's a coaching choke job to lose to a team that has elite players up and down their roster is absurd. We were in the NFC championship game with Jimmy f**king G who had two injuries to his throwing arm. A 6th round running back thriving in the coach's run scheme. A gadget player who carried our offense being utilized in extremely creative ways by that same coach. The Rams had an elite/fringe elite QB, arguably the best WR in the game, a 2nd elite talent at WR who had fallen off some, the best defensive player in the game, a hall of fame edge rusher compliment, the best CB in the game, and other solid players all over the roster.

What you fail to see is that the team is in these positions because of how good the coach is. You think the talent carries him, and he bricks the job. You couldn't be more wrong.

Originally posted by DrEll:

Originally posted by Bringbackedjr:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
KS is an excellent coach - not perfect but without a doubt - excellent..

Many HC's fall into a trap of stubbornness and KS certainly does.

Every day he should start by watching the pathetic right side of the OLine in the SB.

Then go all-in on fixing it.

If Brock has an extra 2 seconds on the last drive we'd have won.

If, if, if… Kyle knows his players and he knows the weaknesses. My dog would have called runs to kill the clock and score for the win. Kyle apparently thought better of it and called passes. Clock stops. The rest Is part of Kyle's choking history…Kyle was the difference in the SB. Many outside of his fan club agree…. He deserves no praise for blowing 3 SBS. wait… he was an accessory to one and owns the KC Bowls outright. Great job Kyle. The genius of all geniuses.

Exactly. That's 4 gut wrenching post season losses full of "ifs" for his supporters. They excuse his miscomings by saying if certain things had happened the way Kyle thought they would happen, we would have won. Makes no sense.

And the second point is spot on. No one outside of his hardcore supporters has come out to back Kyle's game plan from the SB. Most pundits I've heard (players and media) question putting the ball in Mahomes hands at the end. Many question his OT decision. All of them scratch their heads discussing the 3rd quarter.

This failure has Kyle's stamp all over it, except for fan club here that has found all the reasons but Kyle for the team's second SB loss in 5 seasons.

Awful

Can posters please stop this ridiculous division of this place into "Shanahan supporters" and the others? Posters here, well, most of them anyway, are supporters of the team. The people who have invented the 'fan club' here are just bringing unnecessary division and personalisation into this place. We have seen it before. Alex Smith's era, amongst others. This place and most other 49ers sites simply became unpleasant places where posters would fasten onto anyone posting a differing opinion from their own and start personal attacks.

This is not going to happen. You have the right to believe that Shanahan is a choker but you are also going to have to accept that others have the right to hold a contrary opinion. And if you keep repeating your opinion it becomes clear that you are just posting to inflame, and you will be gone. Inventing nicknames for those who disagree with you is also simply trying to irritate other posters and if you push it, you will be gone. This applies, by the way, to those holding either side of the argument.

This place is for supporters of the team to talk football in a pleasant fashion to other supporters. In all the time I have moderated here I have never once seen a poster change his opinion on a subject of any importance as a result of aggressive and argumentative posting.

There does appear to be posters here who would be happier if the Niners had ended up bottom of the NFC West rather than having won the NFL. Strange. Anyway, if you are angry or upset, deal with it yourself rather than venting against other fans.

Thank you. Go Niners.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by DrEll:
All of those critiques in your first paragraph can be applied to both SBs and NFCC game losses. Which in essence proves that Kyle has learned nothing in between the time he coaches SB 54 and SB 58. If the excuse is well we lost by 11 and this time we only lost by 4, so that's an upgrade then shame on you. Kyle got outcoached again and we saw the same boneheaded mistakes we've been witnessing since 54. Can you agree to that ?

Absolutely not, especially in the context of this SB. Kyle did not have any egregious coaching mistakes in this game and I think a great example of his growth was shown when he went for the 4th and 3, down 3 deep in Chiefs territory.

Have no idea how last year's championship game plays out if Purdy doesn't get hurt, but he did. Expecting Kyle to have a 4th and 5th QB available capable of beating last year's Eagles team on the road is absolute f**king nonsense.

And yes, I was critical of Kyle's 4th down decision against the Rams. That might have been a play that could put us in a much better spot to win. But to act like it's a coaching choke job to lose to a team that has elite players up and down their roster is absurd. We were in the NFC championship game with Jimmy f**king G who had two injuries to his throwing arm. A 6th round running back thriving in the coach's run scheme. A gadget player who carried our offense being utilized in extremely creative ways by that same coach. The Rams had an elite/fringe elite QB, arguably the best WR in the game, a 2nd elite talent at WR who had fallen off some, the best defensive player in the game, a hall of fame edge rusher compliment, the best CB in the game, and other solid players all over the roster.

What you fail to see is that the team is in these positions because of how good the coach is. You think the talent carries him, and he bricks the job. You couldn't be more wrong.

At this point I do think the talent carries him. I think we only got as far as we did because the players had to go above and beyond what their coach schemes for them. And when the players got tired, or got injured, Kyle got exposed. I don't think he called a good game in the Super Bowl. I think we could have blown Kansas City out, but Kyle could not close them out even though Wilks defense gave him the ball over and over. Chiefs score 3 in the first half. Only 16 in the 2nd half. Kyle could not outscore them.

Ya'll still talking about the super bowl? lol

Originally posted by DrEll:
At this point I do think the talent carries him. I think we only got as far as we did because the players had to go above and beyond what their coach schemes for them. And when the players got tired, or got injured, Kyle got exposed. I don't think he called a good game in the Super Bowl. I think we could have blown Kansas City out, but Kyle could not close them out even though Wilks defense gave him the ball over and over. Chiefs score 3 in the first half. Only 16 in the 2nd half. Kyle could not outscore them.

Let me ask you a question. Why do you selectively accept outside media and fan opinion of the team, but discard it in other cases? You have continually cited pundits, and former players, who have pointed the finger at Shanahan for the team's losses. Why not cite them again when they tell you something like Purdy is a product of the system and talent around him, for example? That any NFL QB could step in and have similar or better levels of success here?

You have a coach that comes out of the box with a great run game and a scheme that makes the hardest job in sports as simple as it could possibly be. You have seen countless examples over the years with your own team, and others, of how large an effect coaching can have on the success or failure of a team. Mike Singletary coaches for two+ years and the team is a mid-bottom team in it's best moments. Harbro takes over and the team is an immediate contender. Offense looks worst in the league one season… becomes an efficient, ball protecting, great running team the next. You have the best defense in the league, with celebrated players throughout the unit, under Ryans. The next year everybody, with the exception of a couple secondary players, appears to be underperforming for the bulk of the season under Wilks. *Talent doesn't thrive without quality coaching*

I don't think you have much of a clue about how valuable Kyle actually is. You're taking the product of his work which has irrationally raised your expectations and are using it against him.

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Ya'll still talking about the super bowl? lol

I can say as the game got late, I had a moment where I was like ok, some of the strategies here are really fascinating. I can give an olive branch and say if guys execute we likely win on his pass downs. I see that side of it. And that punt was one of my least favorite plays in NFL history, I was convinced I think Beal ran into the punter, which is automatic first down anyway. It didn't get called tho. That SB had everything. I still watch I guess it was leading up to SB 58, that I was watching 54, cuz it was vs KC, and when I throw on SB 54 and we are up 10 going into the 4th, I think ok we got em, hard to believe we lose, even tho I know we did lose. What gets me about that one, not only are we up 10, but we pick off Mahomes in Q4. It's like ok, how on earth do we lose, at that point? I just really hate these Chiefs now, and they will be going for the threepeat I will root against them.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I am saying KC knew they had 4 downs no matter what and we only gave ourselves 3. Execution is important, but in the end he game Mahomes the last word and he spoke.

Yup. We actually got KCto 4th down in their own territory in ot. If we kicked 1st they may punt it rather gamble it all on 1 play.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I am saying KC knew they had 4 downs no matter what and we only gave ourselves 3. Execution is important, but in the end he game Mahomes the last word and he spoke.

Yup. We actually got KCto 4th down in their own territory in ot. If we kicked 1st they may punt it rather gamble it all on 1 play.

100%. It was a dumb decision and if our analytics said that, not very comforting.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Yup. We actually got KCto 4th down in their own territory in ot. If we kicked 1st they may punt it rather gamble it all on 1 play.

Highly doubt they punt that ball in that spot on the first possession, but obviously there's a chance they would have.

You can use their own postgame logic. They were apparently willing to gamble it all on one 2 yard play to avoid giving us the ball in a sudden death scenario. It's not exactly the same situation given field position, but it's damn close.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
100%. It was a dumb decision and if our analytics said that, not very comforting.

It's not unique to our analytics team. Multiple analytics professionals and outfits have said the same thing. It's a 50/50 call.