49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I agree with you on not firing Kyle, but he's the head coach. It's always on him and his resume is getting longer and longer with the same result so the voices of discontent will get louder with each passing year.

I'm not saying it's fair, but that's how it is. If you think I'm wrong then explain why Bill Belicheck is no longer the head coach of the patriots.

I understand 100% why Kyle has been getting that label from outside sources. It's lazy and easy to do. I would hope our own fanbase who I expect to watch every game would understand the intricacies of the game and what caused us to lose each game. Kyle shares the blame and has to do better, there are things that really irk me about him and I've shared that here but to me those things did not cause us to lose those particular games.

As for Belichick, have you watched The Dynasty?

For the record if Kyle had a stretch of seasons like the Pats had in the last 5 years I'd call for him to be fired well before the team went 4-13.

Kyle isn't going to get fired anytime soon, and if/when he does it will take at least 2-3 straight losing seasons to do him in. That doesn't take away the fact that he's a high-profile and historical choke artist

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:
The crying on both sides

😂 you're right. I am trying to make the defend Kyle crowd realize they come across the same way as the fire crowd at this point. Doubt it will make any difference tho

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by genus49:
What did Kyle do after that game btw? He drafted power back in the 3rd round - much to everyone's horror and clearly an overreaction that wasn't a good one.

So sitting back can people honestly say he's not trying to learn from his mistakes?

So your argument saying that Kyle does learn from his mistakes, you are using drafting TDP as an example ? I think it's a pretty poor example.
Especially considering that continuously overdrafting mediocre RBs in these third/fourth rounds was a mistake in the first place. And we still don't have a short-yardage back. When its 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1, the play we run the most ? QB sneak.

The rest of your post I can see and understand. But Kyle hasnt shown that he learns from his mistakes, imo.

Yes I'm using that as an example. When you make a mistake(or what you consider a mistake) and you attempt to correct it, whether you do a great job correcting it or not it still shows you realized you made a mistake in the first place and tried to correct it.

Lots of people in here have made it a point of saying Kyle does NOT learn from his mistakes at all.

The fact is you can look at those key losses and see Kyle trying to fix what he believed were the big mistakes that cost them the game. It doesn't mean he automatically gets it right. That's not how this game goes. You don't just magically say "hey we need better OL" and suddenly a great OL is available for you in FA and draft. You still have to make the moves and hope they're right ones which isn't always easy in the NFL. Other teams are trying to improve as well.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:
Let me expand on this here:

in order to say Kyle has learned from his mistakes (or that he hasn't, whichever you believe), one needs the following:

1. Description of a mistake and why
2. Was a mistake identified as such by Kyle ? Kyle is very defensive and almost never admits mistakes publicly
3. Was the mistake addressed in a way that it hasn't before ?
4. Was the addressed mistake in #3 directly because of it being a mistake ? Ie, correlation does not imply causation

With the lack of short-yardage back, if we assume it's one of Kyle's mistakes (I'm not too sure it is, definitely a lot of other mistakes are far more egregious in my opinion) I don't see any real attempt to resolve it. Kyle drafted TDP in the third round, reaching for him, valuing him a lot higher than almost any draft expert and any NFL team. This was in line in his previous mistakes of reaching for RBs in 3rd and fourth rounds, even though everyone says if there's a UDFA RB that can be productive, it's in Kyle's system.

After TDP ended up as a bust and they have traded for CMC, the team still does not really have a short-yardage back. CMC wasnt automatic on 3rd/4th down and short iirc.

Kyle doesn't have to admit mistakes publicly as long as he's acknowledging them within the building and learning from them.

The rest of your post goes out the window because Kyle doesn't admit to those mistakes in public and he doesn't have to. Why reveal a key weakness on his team and hurt his chances to address it with other teams being in on his thoughts?

For your whole discussion they mentioned the reason they liked TDP and his ability to not lose yards and manage to move forward no matter what was a key evaluation for them. You may want to act like the move had nothing to do with them losing yardage on 2nd and 1/3rd and 2 runs that were critical in losing the Rams game. I think it is. And it's also not about finding about a short yardage back, they saw a gap in their personnel for a key moment and wanted to find a solution. Once again you don't have to agree with the solution but pretending they didn't try to address it is another thing all together. And nobody is automatic on 3rd/4th and short. CMC was very good at it though and his ability in the passing game coupled with Brock makes those short downs much easier.

The other moves I feel are clear Kyle trying to react to key mistakes - replacing Jimmy G. Once again you can bash the move but the goal was clear.

And then rolling with 3 QBs on the active roster after what happened to Brock in the NFCCG last season.

We'll see what we do this year. Now I've said in here if we come out of the draft without clear attempts to improve the OL then I'll be back in this thread saying Kyle is on thin ice.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I agree with you on not firing Kyle, but he's the head coach. It's always on him and his resume is getting longer and longer with the same result so the voices of discontent will get louder with each passing year.

I'm not saying it's fair, but that's how it is. If you think I'm wrong then explain why Bill Belicheck is no longer the head coach of the patriots.

I understand 100% why Kyle has been getting that label from outside sources. It's lazy and easy to do. I would hope our own fanbase who I expect to watch every game would understand the intricacies of the game and what caused us to lose each game. Kyle shares the blame and has to do better, there are things that really irk me about him and I've shared that here but to me those things did not cause us to lose those particular games.

As for Belichick, have you watched The Dynasty?

For the record if Kyle had a stretch of seasons like the Pats had in the last 5 years I'd call for him to be fired well before the team went 4-13.

My point is Belicheck won 6 of 9 SB in 17 years? That's insane. I get more recently the team was garbage, but many argue he should have been able to go out how he wanted given his success, aka a made man etc and I understand that thinking. So while I believe Kyle is safe now, that can also quickly change tbh and his success is nowhere near Belichecks.

The biggest hope I have is that Purdy imo is a top 5 qb already and can hopefully pull some magic in his career. However, after this season it is very much a rebuild around him and Bosa as the roster is going to be changing around a monster QB contract. Can they do that? Maybe, but that's asking a lot. If we cant pull it off next year odds are he missed his shot(s).

Originally posted by HearstFan:
IMHO - How Shanahan was Outcoached by KC Andy Reid in the Superbowl:

1. The OC game plan was too heavy on the receiver focused drop back passing game - it was clear the deeper receiver routes weren't getting open against the KC defensive backs -- and the 9ers right side OL wasn't holding up enough either, making Purdy hold onto the ball and move in the pocket to wait for open routes. I was hoping they would adjust with quicker TE and RB routes, but that didn't materialize either. Indicating to me, they hadn't anticipated and developed that part of the game plan enough. That's on the Coach.

2. KC game planned the Mahomes runs when they needed it most. A.) Shanahan could have done the same thing with Purdy - some designed runs to convert 3rd or 4th downs -- but failed to be creative enough to do it. And B.) the defense failed to anticipate this -- even after the 1st critical Mahomes run the defense either didn't call, or the DE failed to play, backside contain of a Mahomes run.

To me, those are critical coaching mistakes. The other failures in the game were imho player execution mistakes. Some people blame coaches for failing to prepare the players enough, but again, imho if the play calls seems right, but the players fail to execute, that is on the players.

Thoughts?

First of all I appreciate you coming in here with more than "Kyle choked"

Honestly I don't think Kyle got outcoached by Andy Reid. Kyle got outcoached by Spags, who did the same thing to Bill Belichick, Josh McDaniels and vs the best version of Tom Brady in his career.

The gameplan we had was working but it was going up against a very good defense so it was never going to be a 35+ point game situation. I think the issue was once KC adjusted we didn't adjust as well. That to me was Kyle's biggest error in this game - they went away from their zone and went to man, Deebo is not our man beater WR. The gameplan featured him heavily and we never moved away from it and while there were still plays to be made we were not putting our best foot forward there IMO.

But I also think it's hard to say Andy outcoached Kyle when his offense was invisible most of the game and needed a fluke Dre Greenlaw injury to find life.

We can blame Kyle for hiring Wilks but in the end I think Mahomes was simply doing what he was doing and it wasn't so much a scheme masterclass like it was when we played in the regular season the year prior.

Whether people want to admit it or not Andy Reid had a much easier go of it coaching wise vs Steve Wilks than Kyle did vs Spagnulo. That's why in a situation like the pivotal 3rd and 5 after the 2 minute warning we saw a play design from Kyle which scheme wise had an open 1st down read but Spags and his players are pretty damn good too. They disguised the blitz well and the DB made a play on the ball while Brock in his inexperience didn't target Aiyuk who was freed up as his defender came in on the blitz.

Knowing how Brock has matured from rookie to 2nd season, I'm confident had the same situation happened next year - Brock is hitting Aiyuk(hopefully he's still here) for the first down and we likely win the game on game winning FG.

But it kind of was a tale of two halves. We had a great gameplan and came out playing well, if not for self harming mistakes by the players we probably put that game away in the first half but we didn't and the coaches failed to bring their best stuff in the end. But to me Kyle's play designs were sound, even if he featured the wrong WR. Wilks play calls late in the game were terrible that includes not having the team prepared to defend the QB run on 4th and 1 when Trent Williams knows it's probably coming.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I agree with you on not firing Kyle, but he's the head coach. It's always on him and his resume is getting longer and longer with the same result so the voices of discontent will get louder with each passing year.

I'm not saying it's fair, but that's how it is. If you think I'm wrong then explain why Bill Belicheck is no longer the head coach of the patriots.

I understand 100% why Kyle has been getting that label from outside sources. It's lazy and easy to do. I would hope our own fanbase who I expect to watch every game would understand the intricacies of the game and what caused us to lose each game. Kyle shares the blame and has to do better, there are things that really irk me about him and I've shared that here but to me those things did not cause us to lose those particular games.

As for Belichick, have you watched The Dynasty?

For the record if Kyle had a stretch of seasons like the Pats had in the last 5 years I'd call for him to be fired well before the team went 4-13.

My point is Belicheck won 6 of 9 SB in 17 years? That's insane. I get more recently the team was garbage, but many argue he should have been able to go out how he wanted given his success, aka a made man etc and I understand that thinking. So while I believe Kyle is safe now, that can also quickly change tbh and his success is nowhere near Belichecks.

The biggest hope I have is that Purdy imo is a top 5 qb already and can hopefully pull some magic in his career. However, after this season it is very much a rebuild around him and Bosa as the roster is going to be changing around a monster QB contract. Can they do that? Maybe, but that's asking a lot. If we cant pull it off next year odds are he missed his shot(s).

Did you watch the show?

I agree with you 100% things can change quickly with Kyle. At the end of the day he has not won a SB and if he starts to lose the team(much like Belichick did if you watch the show) AND the wins aren't coming or the SB wins...he's going to be fired like anyone else.

But your 2nd point is my hope as well. I think we just saw Kyle with a QB he actually really trusts and unfortunately that QB was young and made a key mistake in the SB where we lost the game...but a lot of other things happened in the game which is why we lost.

People will point to other teams getting better in the NFC and that's fine but we can also get better and when you have a legit QB you can really build around him.

Why I hope and pray we nail our OL draft picks and get the kid better pass protection. When I saw him make back to back big plays in the SB to Chris Conley and McCloud I knew we had a guy who doesn't need the so called Avengers around him. Give him protection and some solid receivers and he'll produce.

Of course getting him the Avengers and the X-Men on the OL wouldn't hurt...so let's go do that.

Either way I think we need to see what Kyle does after this latest loss.

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Man the Kyle disciples are out in full force 😂

Rather be called a homer than a moron

So cute, you think you're a homer.

I just want to know who they want to replace him. I never her any suggestions. Good coaches aren't just waiting around for a call. They're already coaching.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I just want to know who they want to replace him. I never her any suggestions. Good coaches aren't just waiting around for a call. They're already coaching.

In the hypothetical situation in which Shanahan is fired or leaves of his own accord, I'm not saying a capable guy doesn't exist, but I can safely say we probably won't find that guy immediately after Shanahan's departure.

Originally posted by 49er-from-Yavin-IV:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I just want to know who they want to replace him. I never her any suggestions. Good coaches aren't just waiting around for a call. They're already coaching.

In the hypothetical situation in which Shanahan is fired or leaves of his own accord, I'm not saying a capable guy doesn't exist, but I can safely say we probably won't find that guy immediately after Shanahan's departure.

It's rare for a successful coach (Kyle has been successful) to leave and be replaced by anyone as good. Look at the great coaches like Lombardi, Walsh, Joe Gibbs, Chuck Noll, Don Shula and so on. Most of their teams struggled after they left. I know the Niners were still good when Walsh left but most of his players were still there.

The fly in the ointment in the KS/JL running the team is their draft issues. Every team drafts busts.

Admittingly, I don't know the answer BUT how many guys drafted the past 4 years are still on the 53 man team?

How many are true difference makers?

IMO, that will give a better picture on how they're doing in that crucial area.

Another BIG issue is not aggressively fixing the right side of the OLine.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I agree with you on not firing Kyle, but he's the head coach. It's always on him and his resume is getting longer and longer with the same result so the voices of discontent will get louder with each passing year.

I'm not saying it's fair, but that's how it is. If you think I'm wrong then explain why Bill Belicheck is no longer the head coach of the patriots.

I understand 100% why Kyle has been getting that label from outside sources. It's lazy and easy to do. I would hope our own fanbase who I expect to watch every game would understand the intricacies of the game and what caused us to lose each game. Kyle shares the blame and has to do better, there are things that really irk me about him and I've shared that here but to me those things did not cause us to lose those particular games.

As for Belichick, have you watched The Dynasty?

For the record if Kyle had a stretch of seasons like the Pats had in the last 5 years I'd call for him to be fired well before the team went 4-13.

My point is Belicheck won 6 of 9 SB in 17 years? That's insane. I get more recently the team was garbage, but many argue he should have been able to go out how he wanted given his success, aka a made man etc and I understand that thinking. So while I believe Kyle is safe now, that can also quickly change tbh and his success is nowhere near Belichecks.

The biggest hope I have is that Purdy imo is a top 5 qb already and can hopefully pull some magic in his career. However, after this season it is very much a rebuild around him and Bosa as the roster is going to be changing around a monster QB contract. Can they do that? Maybe, but that's asking a lot. If we cant pull it off next year odds are he missed his shot(s).

Did you watch the show?

I agree with you 100% things can change quickly with Kyle. At the end of the day he has not won a SB and if he starts to lose the team(much like Belichick did if you watch the show) AND the wins aren't coming or the SB wins...he's going to be fired like anyone else.

But your 2nd point is my hope as well. I think we just saw Kyle with a QB he actually really trusts and unfortunately that QB was young and made a key mistake in the SB where we lost the game...but a lot of other things happened in the game which is why we lost.

People will point to other teams getting better in the NFC and that's fine but we can also get better and when you have a legit QB you can really build around him.

Why I hope and pray we nail our OL draft picks and get the kid better pass protection. When I saw him make back to back big plays in the SB to Chris Conley and McCloud I knew we had a guy who doesn't need the so called Avengers around him. Give him protection and some solid receivers and he'll produce.

Of course getting him the Avengers and the X-Men on the OL wouldn't hurt...so let's go do that.

Either way I think we need to see what Kyle does after this latest loss.

No, I didn't watch the show, but I get he lost the offense for sure. Somewhat unexpected, but still crazy how he was just totally lost on offense the past few years imo. The logic here for me is while he bottomed out (offensively) I hardly doubt the new coach will do anything spectacular either and probably wont come anywhere near his defensive success. The other side of that thought is sometimes everyone just needs a fresh start. I think him reunited with McDaniels is the only wise move for him and Josh and they are very good together. (sorta like Reid and Spags at this point)

I said right after the SB Kyle is safe unless he starts losing and/or if he starts losing players. I got a tiny sense of that type of frustration from players after this loss. That being said there are tons of emotions to process after a loss in the SB and he seems to have a great relationship with his players so I would hope they can air out whatever is needed and he is receptive etc.

So we basically agree 100%, but I may be more vocal with my frustrations regarding Kyle, and don't really get annoyed at the fire crowd as I understand their frustration, even though I don't agree.

I am personally very curious on the call outs about his lack of pass pro in certain plays/formations. I've seen JTO and others say some of this just doesn't make sense and is simply asking for instant pressure because and doesn't really account for this or that and protect his QB etc. I am not an x's and o's guy but can be brought up to speed quick, and when ex players (qb's) are talking like that there is something there.

Originally posted by genus49:
First of all I appreciate you coming in here with more than "Kyle choked"

Honestly I don't think Kyle got outcoached by Andy Reid. Kyle got outcoached by Spags, who did the same thing to Bill Belichick, Josh McDaniels and vs the best version of Tom Brady in his career.

The gameplan we had was working but it was going up against a very good defense so it was never going to be a 35+ point game situation. I think the issue was once KC adjusted we didn't adjust as well. That to me was Kyle's biggest error in this game - they went away from their zone and went to man, Deebo is not our man beater WR. The gameplan featured him heavily and we never moved away from it and while there were still plays to be made we were not putting our best foot forward there IMO.

But I also think it's hard to say Andy outcoached Kyle when his offense was invisible most of the game and needed a fluke Dre Greenlaw injury to find life.

We can blame Kyle for hiring Wilks but in the end I think Mahomes was simply doing what he was doing and it wasn't so much a scheme masterclass like it was when we played in the regular season the year prior.

Whether people want to admit it or not Andy Reid had a much easier go of it coaching wise vs Steve Wilks than Kyle did vs Spagnulo. That's why in a situation like the pivotal 3rd and 5 after the 2 minute warning we saw a play design from Kyle which scheme wise had an open 1st down read but Spags and his players are pretty damn good too. They disguised the blitz well and the DB made a play on the ball while Brock in his inexperience didn't target Aiyuk who was freed up as his defender came in on the blitz.

Knowing how Brock has matured from rookie to 2nd season, I'm confident had the same situation happened next year - Brock is hitting Aiyuk(hopefully he's still here) for the first down and we likely win the game on game winning FG.

But it kind of was a tale of two halves. We had a great gameplan and came out playing well, if not for self harming mistakes by the players we probably put that game away in the first half but we didn't and the coaches failed to bring their best stuff in the end. But to me Kyle's play designs were sound, even if he featured the wrong WR. Wilks play calls late in the game were terrible that includes not having the team prepared to defend the QB run on 4th and 1 when Trent Williams knows it's probably coming.

I think Reid got past Shanny on preparation. This is from Press Democrat:

His team was unprepared Sunday for the new overtime rules, some of the 49ers players didn't even know the rules had been changed two years ago.

Instead, it is fair to wonder if he is up to the task of handling the pressure contained in critical moments in the most important game of the season.

Fairly or not the onus of that embarrassment falls squarely on Shanahan, now labeled by some - and I'm quoting here - "the biggest choke artist of all time." At the very least he has some 'splainin' to do. Chris Jones, Kansas City's All-Pro defensive line, said the Chiefs were running drills in training camp on how to adjust to the new overtime rules established in 2022. On the other hand. ... Arik Armstead, the 49ers defensive lineman, learned of the new rules during a television timeout in the fourth quarter. Said fullback Kyle Juszczyk who assumed overtime rules hadn't changed: "I guess that's not the case anymore. I really don't know the strategy."

Not being informed is like stepping on glass to an NFL player schooled since training camp on preparation, thoroughness and ready for all possibilities off script. What? Who? Where? When? No player wants to think like that in the biggest game of their season.