49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
The fly in the ointment in the KS/JL running the team is their draft issues. Every team drafts busts.

Admittingly, I don't know the answer BUT how many guys drafted the past 4 years are still on the 53 man team?

How many are true difference makers?

IMO, that will give a better picture on how they're doing in that crucial area.

Another BIG issue is not aggressively fixing the right side of the OLine.

Aside from the 1st round they have drafted really really well compared to the rest of the league. In fact I would say they have drafted more all-pros and pro bowlers than any other team in the league since they have been in charge. Did those picks come in the first rd? No. Does it really matter what round? No not really as long has they drafted.

The draft is truly a crapshoot. Every team has the same first round grades on players give or take a a few players. here and there but one GM and can draft a guy everyone had a 1st rd grade on and in a few years down the road that GM is viewed an idiot bc that draft pick busted while the GM who picked after him is a genius bc his pick is an all pro. But they all would have picked that bust if given the chance.

Originally posted by miked1978:
Aside from the 1st round they have drafted really really well compared to the rest of the league. In fact I would say they have drafted more all-pros and pro bowlers than any other team in the league since they have been in charge. Did those picks come in the first rd? No. Does it really matter what round? No not really as long has they drafted.

The draft is truly a crapshoot. Every team has the same first round grades on players give or take a a few players. here and there but one GM and can draft a guy everyone had a 1st rd grade on and in a few years down the road that GM is viewed an idiot bc that draft pick busted while the GM who picked after him is a genius bc his pick is an all pro. But they all would have picked that bust if given the chance.

They obviously have hit on their fair share in the later rounds bur there are 3 drafts that really left me.

3. Drafting Solomon Thomas #3 with already having Defo and AA. Then trying to convert him to DE.

2. Drafting a FS in the 3rd to play corner. Then Drafting a corner in like round 5 to play safety. Still boggles my mind.

1. Speaking of boggling the mind. Trading 3 draft picks to move up to #3. Not only did they draft the one player I thought they shouldn't. They made the trade like 2 months in advance of the draft without even knowing who the wanted. This whole ordeal was just so furiating.

Speaking of Trey, he will be 24 this year. Cant wait to see him light it up now that hes no longer only 21. Is this the age he grows out of the "he's just.....(insert age here)? Or is that still a thing?

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
The fly in the ointment in the KS/JL running the team is their draft issues. Every team drafts busts.

Admittingly, I don't know the answer BUT how many guys drafted the past 4 years are still on the 53 man team?

How many are true difference makers?

IMO, that will give a better picture on how they're doing in that crucial area.

Another BIG issue is not aggressively fixing the right side of the OLine.

Really? I mean we've had our share of draft busts but after the 2017 first round disaster it has been a pretty damn good track record.

I think the Trey Lance move is amplified by some people because of what we gave up for him and the fact that he didn't work out here but part of that reason was them finding Brock Purdy. Overall I think if you looked around the league you'd be hard pressed to find many teams who have drafted better overall since Shanahan/Lynch took over.

Here are the studs we've drafted under those guys per season
2017: George Kittle
2018: Fred Warner
2019: Nick Bosa, Deebo Samuel, Dre Greenlaw
2020: Brandon Aiyuk
2021: none yet
2022: Brock Purdy

The good/starter level players or good enough to start if you need them
2017: DJ Jones
2018: Mike McGlinchey, DJ Reed
2019: Mitch Wishnowsky
2020: Jauan Jennings
2021: Aaron Banks, Deommodore Lenoir, Talanoa Hufanga, Elijah Mitchell
2022: TBD
2023: TBD

May not kill you if they start/solid depth players
2017: Witherspoon, Trent Taylor
2018: Richie James, Kentavious Street
2019: none
2020: Javon Kinlaw, Colton McKivitz, Charlie Woerner
2021: Ambry Thomas, Jaylon Moore
2022: TBD - this draft would look pretty grim if not for Purdy
2023: TBD - too early to tell

Major busts:
Solomon Thomas
Reuben Foster
Trey Lance
Dante Pettis

Outside the first 2 rounds the hit rate is so slim that any of those guys don't count as busts IMO.

Overall I think you can argue how I placed some of those guys but that's still pretty good drafting. The biggest concern for me and hopefully it won't be a problem for a long time is our QB plans/evaluations. We don't know what Trey Lance would be but while I don't have a problem with the team swinging for the QB fences when they didn't have a legit one in place...you miss on that and luck into Brock and that doesn't scream - these guys know how to address the position.

It's luck. It's great luck but moving forward I hope Brock and Trey both help us learn and grow from those evaluations.

I do think Kyle and John learned from the Thomas/Foster and Pettis whiffs. And the lack of first round picks after the Trey move cost us key depth/development guys so we need them to look more to their philosophy in the later rounds and hit this draft out of the park.

Build this team around Brock and that includes giving him a solid OL.

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by miked1978:
Aside from the 1st round they have drafted really really well compared to the rest of the league. In fact I would say they have drafted more all-pros and pro bowlers than any other team in the league since they have been in charge. Did those picks come in the first rd? No. Does it really matter what round? No not really as long has they drafted.

The draft is truly a crapshoot. Every team has the same first round grades on players give or take a a few players. here and there but one GM and can draft a guy everyone had a 1st rd grade on and in a few years down the road that GM is viewed an idiot bc that draft pick busted while the GM who picked after him is a genius bc his pick is an all pro. But they all would have picked that bust if given the chance.

They obviously have hit on their fair share in the later rounds bur there are 3 drafts that really left me.

3. Drafting Solomon Thomas #3 with already having Defo and AA. Then trying to convert him to DE.

2. Drafting a FS in the 3rd to play corner. Then Drafting a corner in like round 5 to play safety. Still boggles my mind.

1. Speaking of boggling the mind. Trading 3 draft picks to move up to #3. Not only did they draft the one player I thought they shouldn't. They made the trade like 2 months in advance of the draft without even knowing who the wanted. This whole ordeal was just so furiating.

Speaking of Trey, he will be 24 this year. Cant wait to see him light it up now that hes no longer only 21. Is this the age he grows out of the "he's just.....(insert age here)? Or is that still a thing?

Not sure what furiating is but it sounds painful. See a doc about that!

I'm sure people here won't let me forget I was all aboard the Thomas train that draft. In hindsight obviously that was a mistake but even in hindsight your reference of them having Buckner and Defo doesn't change the fact that with both of those guys there we were a historically awful defense. Adding a player many thought was going to be great in the NFL isn't a shocking move. He had the measurements and agility similar to Michael Bennett. It made sense he just never got there and I wonder if the death of his sister hurt him on the field as well.

Your #2 was stupid but in the end both guys would play their college positions. Unfortunately DJ got hurt and we thought we could stash him on IR and the f*cking Seahawks swooped in. Would be nice to have him on the roster right now. Instead he's playing great for the Jets

Your #1(why did you work from 3 to 1?) It's a move they had to make. I understand their reasoning even if it seems somewhat stupid. Draft Day did it first lol. You make the move knowing you don't have to hide anything and then you go to town searching for any black marks you can find.

The move was a mistake but still I don't have a problem with them going for it.

Originally posted by genus49:
Not sure what furiating is but it sounds painful. See a doc about that!

I'm sure people here won't let me forget I was all aboard the Thomas train that draft. In hindsight obviously that was a mistake but even in hindsight your reference of them having Buckner and Defo doesn't change the fact that with both of those guys there we were a historically awful defense. Adding a player many thought was going to be great in the NFL isn't a shocking move. He had the measurements and agility similar to Michael Bennett. It made sense he just never got there and I wonder if the death of his sister hurt him on the field as well.

Your #2 was stupid but in the end both guys would play their college positions. Unfortunately DJ got hurt and we thought we could stash him on IR and the f*cking Seahawks swooped in. Would be nice to have him on the roster right now. Instead he's playing great for the Jets

Your #1(why did you work from 3 to 1?) It's a move they had to make. I understand their reasoning even if it seems somewhat stupid. Draft Day did it first lol. You make the move knowing you don't have to hide anything and then you go to town searching for any black marks you can find.

The move was a mistake but still I don't have a problem with them going for it.

The problem with #1 the TL move, is QB is not a easy projection. It's really out of your control. Kyle admitted this after learning his lesson. He said you just don't know what you are getting, until you get the man in the building. If you wanted the QB stay at 12. That way the QB doesn't impact your future year drafts, and would have been better than Lance anyway. The top of the draft is more costly than it should be it's a failure of desperate teams they pay more for high picks than what those picks are really worth.

Originally posted by HearstFan:
IMHO - How Shanahan was Outcoached by KC Andy Reid in the Superbowl:

1. The OC game plan was too heavy on the receiver focused drop back passing game - it was clear the deeper receiver routes weren't getting open against the KC defensive backs -- and the 9ers right side OL wasn't holding up enough either, making Purdy hold onto the ball and move in the pocket to wait for open routes. I was hoping they would adjust with quicker TE and RB routes, but that didn't materialize either. Indicating to me, they hadn't anticipated and developed that part of the game plan enough. That's on the Coach.

2. KC game planned the Mahomes runs when they needed it most. A.) Shanahan could have done the same thing with Purdy - some designed runs to convert 3rd or 4th downs -- but failed to be creative enough to do it. And B.) the defense failed to anticipate this -- even after the 1st critical Mahomes run the defense either didn't call, or the DE failed to play, backside contain of a Mahomes run.

To me, those are critical coaching mistakes. The other failures in the game were imho player execution mistakes. Some people blame coaches for failing to prepare the players enough, but again, imho if the play calls seems right, but the players fail to execute, that is on the players.

Thoughts?

I think this is reasonable 👍🏻. I'm pro-Kyle, but dude makes mistakes… which seems strange to me since we do such a good job of being mistake-free here on the boards

I agree the Kyle made mistakes. Some weren't mistakes. They were just decisioons that didn't work. That's 2 different things. No matter what you think of him he's better than all the other coaches other than Reid. He helped Lynch rebuild a team that was one of the worst in the league. He's had them in the conference final 4 times and the SB twice. Both SBs came down to a couple of key plays.

Originally posted by miked1978:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
The fly in the ointment in the KS/JL running the team is their draft issues. Every team drafts busts.

Admittingly, I don't know the answer BUT how many guys drafted the past 4 years are still on the 53 man team?

How many are true difference makers?

IMO, that will give a better picture on how they're doing in that crucial area.

Another BIG issue is not aggressively fixing the right side of the OLine.

Aside from the 1st round they have drafted really really well compared to the rest of the league. In fact I would say they have drafted more all-pros and pro bowlers than any other team in the league since they have been in charge. Did those picks come in the first rd? No. Does it really matter what round? No not really as long has they drafted.

The draft is truly a crapshoot. Every team has the same first round grades on players give or take a a few players. here and there but one GM and can draft a guy everyone had a 1st rd grade on and in a few years down the road that GM is viewed an idiot bc that draft pick busted while the GM who picked after him is a genius bc his pick is an all pro. But they all would have picked that bust if given the chance.

For sh*ts n giggles I went back to look at the KC drafts since they're clearly the class of the NFL since 2017 when Kyle came in to coach SF.

2017 draft: Mahomes - THE pick and obviously everything fell in place from there.
Rest of 2017: Kareem Hunt(their version of Reuben Foster), Tanoh Kpassagnon(nothing special)
2018: Derrick Nnadi - mainly run D DT
2019: Mecole Hardman, Juan Thornhill - not a single top flight starter in the bunch
2020: L'Jarius Sneed in the 4th run huge hit, Willie Gay and Clyde EH ok picks but nothing special for 1st and 2nd rounders
2021: Nick Bolton, Creed Humphrey, Trey Smith were the big hits, especially given where Creed and Trey were selected(49ers need this type of draft haul)
2022: Trent McDuffie huge hit. Karlaftis solid, Sky Moore very meh, Bryan Cook solid and Pacheco huge hit in the 7th
2023: Rashee Rice and TBD

Overall 49ers have definitely drafted better in that timeframe. Problem is we let some of our key guys go and didn't have the top flight level hit at the most important position in the game.

Originally posted by Koldo:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Man the Kyle disciples are out in full force 😂

Rather be called a homer than a moron

So cute, you think you're a homer.

lol he spent years complaining about how bad the starting QB was, nobody is accusing Gore of being a homer

Yes! Kyle gets us to the big games but he makes mistakes that keep him from being an elite coach. Choosing not to defer in overtime being the best example.

Not too sure Reid is an elite coach as well. Just happened to be on the right team at the right time. I do think Belichik was an elite coach, however.

new draft hat is pretty sharp imo, I like how it says faithful on the side there with a lil pickaxe or whathaveyou
maybe Shanny will don this in the war room

Originally posted by RiceOwensStokes:

Originally posted by Koldo:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Man the Kyle disciples are out in full force 😂

Rather be called a homer than a moron

So cute, you think you're a homer.

lol he spent years complaining about how bad the starting QB was, nobody is accusing Gore of being a homer

Jimmy was never bad while he was here, problem was he wasn't good.. Since he left 49ers, he's been cut and now playing as a backup.

I never once said Kyle didn't serve any blame for the SB. Forcing at times to Deebo, not getting Kittle involved, not getting Mitchell more involved in the SB. That's on him there. But there was plenty of bad execution from the team as well. I just majorly disagree with Kyle needs get fired crowd. Thankfully its a very small crowd and it's the same crowd known for their consistent awful takes, and it's the same few people that were huge Jimmy supporters that are still butt hurt that Kyle wanted him gone.

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by RiceOwensStokes:

Originally posted by Koldo:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Man the Kyle disciples are out in full force 😂

Rather be called a homer than a moron

So cute, you think you're a homer.

lol he spent years complaining about how bad the starting QB was, nobody is accusing Gore of being a homer

Jimmy was never bad while he was here, problem was he wasn't good.. Since he left 49ers, he's been cut and now playing as a backup.

I never once said Kyle didn't serve any blame for the SB. Forcing at times to Deebo, not getting Kittle involved, not getting Mitchell more involved in the SB. That's on him there. But there was plenty of bad execution from the team as well. I just majorly disagree with Kyle needs get fired crowd. Thankfully its a very small crowd and it's the same crowd known for their consistent awful takes, and it's the same few people that were huge Jimmy supporters that are still butt hurt that Kyle wanted him gone.

That is a very odd crowd indeed. I have no issues questioning him, his patterns, blind spots, etc. but, damn. Fire him?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by RiceOwensStokes:

Originally posted by Koldo:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Man the Kyle disciples are out in full force 😂

Rather be called a homer than a moron

So cute, you think you're a homer.

lol he spent years complaining about how bad the starting QB was, nobody is accusing Gore of being a homer

Jimmy was never bad while he was here, problem was he wasn't good.. Since he left 49ers, he's been cut and now playing as a backup.

I never once said Kyle didn't serve any blame for the SB. Forcing at times to Deebo, not getting Kittle involved, not getting Mitchell more involved in the SB. That's on him there. But there was plenty of bad execution from the team as well. I just majorly disagree with Kyle needs get fired crowd. Thankfully its a very small crowd and it's the same crowd known for their consistent awful takes, and it's the same few people that were huge Jimmy supporters that are still butt hurt that Kyle wanted him gone.

That is a very odd crowd indeed. I have no issues questioning him, his patterns, blind spots, etc. but, damn. Fire him?

It's dumb when you also consider how much say he's had on the roster since he's been here. He's had a big hand in building this roster/culture. Players obviously respect him too, you rarely hear players talking s**t after they leave here. So far it's basically been Jimmy and Mostert (which I don't blame him since he was very good and then we didn't want to pay him) but Mostert has also been on record giving a lot of credit to Kyle for making him a household name in the NFL.

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by RiceOwensStokes:

Originally posted by Koldo:

Originally posted by GoreGoreGore:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Man the Kyle disciples are out in full force 😂

Rather be called a homer than a moron

So cute, you think you're a homer.

lol he spent years complaining about how bad the starting QB was, nobody is accusing Gore of being a homer

Jimmy was never bad while he was here, problem was he wasn't good.. Since he left 49ers, he's been cut and now playing as a backup.

I never once said Kyle didn't serve any blame for the SB. Forcing at times to Deebo, not getting Kittle involved, not getting Mitchell more involved in the SB. That's on him there. But there was plenty of bad execution from the team as well. I just majorly disagree with Kyle needs get fired crowd. Thankfully its a very small crowd and it's the same crowd known for their consistent awful takes, and it's the same few people that were huge Jimmy supporters that are still butt hurt that Kyle wanted him gone.

To summarize….everyone but "me". As Koldo said, it's cute you consider yourself a homer…