49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by MucketyMuck:
I mean... you sit and prop up Mahomes yet you don't think giving this guy the ball to end the game...BY CHOICE... was dumb?

Name me a single player you'd rather have with the opportunity Shanny gave Mahomes. Name me one player you'd put out there instead of Mahomes in that scenario in the entire NFL.

He's getting the ball no matter what. The 49ers needed to score a TD and didn't do it. They were going to have to get a stop no matter what and couldn't do it. If you think those were failures because of a choice, or because of coaching alone, you are an absolute potato.

We scored more against that defense than any team in the playoffs outside of the Bills, who played them at home and have an absolutely dominant player at QB. We had failures of execution in all phases of the game. Unlucky turnovers. Inability of our star wideouts to beat the star corners across from them with any consistency. About the only legitimate criticism of Kyle is what faithful referenced earlier: design and protection in the dropback passing game. And we had ample opportunities to win in spite of it.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
. We had failures of execution in all phases of the game.

.

Originally posted by MucketyMuck:
.

Funny you think that's a point that helps any argument you're making. Maybe if the coach was controlling the players with a joystick.

Any time now you'll have concrete examples of your criticism. Definitely won't hold my breath.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I think CMC fumbling is just a bad luck and rare event. Other stuff like players having mishaps, penalties, part of that does indeed fall on the coach. If we credit Kyle when the O does well we can't simply blame the players when the O doesn't do well. That's having it two ways. We saw NFL players break down the whiffed Burford block and they say it's on Burford and also the scheme from KS sucks, with popping out the center. On both.

Yes let's ignore the fact that the starting RG was injured and that he and Burford both acknowledged it was on Burford not doing his assigned task on that play and go with other NFL players who aren't with the team because that's a way to give Shanahan fault for something a player clearly f'd up.

CMC fumbling = bad luck but someone not doing their job properly is a reflection of the coach?

Has Shanahan ever been described as a guy who lets players do whatever they want? He's not Bill Belichick but he's also not Pete Carroll or any of the player coaches just happy to have a job.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by MucketyMuck:
.

Funny you think that's a point that helps any argument you're making. Maybe if the coach was controlling the players with a joystick.

Any time now you'll have concrete examples of your criticism. Definitely won't hold my breath.

I think it's pretty obvious that a lack of execution is a direct trait of a HC. That's literally part of a coaches job is to have your team prepared to execute. And I would understand if it was one or two things but as you pointed out...and I quote...."We had failures of execution in all phases of the game." that is a direct reflection of a team not prepared and ready.... for the Super Bowl of all games. A team not prepared. A team that failed in all phases. And it's not just one game. There is a history of "failures of execution in all phases of the game." Just like our last SB.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
A victim of his success with people like yourself, DrEll, the dude who is confused by the concept of stan. What a disingenuous attempt to twist the point.

He's not a victim in reality because people who know the game understand his value. These people understand that the team has the success it does in large part because he is incredibly good at what he does.

Would you say he's incredibly good in Super Bowls?

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I think CMC fumbling is just a bad luck and rare event. Other stuff like players having mishaps, penalties, part of that does indeed fall on the coach. If we credit Kyle when the O does well we can't simply blame the players when the O doesn't do well. That's having it two ways. We saw NFL players break down the whiffed Burford block and they say it's on Burford and also the scheme from KS sucks, with popping out the center. On both.

Yes let's ignore the fact that the starting RG was injured and that he and Burford both acknowledged it was on Burford not doing his assigned task on that play and go with other NFL players who aren't with the team because that's a way to give Shanahan fault for something a player clearly f'd up.

CMC fumbling = bad luck but someone not doing their job properly is a reflection of the coach?

Has Shanahan ever been described as a guy who lets players do whatever they want? He's not Bill Belichick but he's also not Pete Carroll or any of the player coaches just happy to have a job.

Random forum guy >>>> Player who played in the game.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Lot of words to say preparation don't mean jack. I say, it does. Like Walsh scripting his plays. Why did that matter? It was more preparation. I have found in life my performance is most often equal to my preparation. Or lack thereof.

Enough with this garbage.

What preparation was needed for OT that wasn't there? I asked you this before and you ignored it because you have nothing of substance behind this take.

Do the rules in OT change in terms of how many downs it takes to move the chains? Do passing vs rushing yards count more? What actually changes in the game they've been prepared to play in any way?

The only surprise was they wouldn't win with a TD. Does that mean they didn't want to score the TD on their opening drive? Did they not want to stop KC from matching or exceeding their points?

It made no difference on the execution. You can make the claim Kyle not going over it doesn't look good in comparison to Reid but considering there was no guarantee OT would even happen maybe Kyle felt their time was better served on planning and practicing the things they knew would actually happen?

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I think CMC fumbling is just a bad luck and rare event. Other stuff like players having mishaps, penalties, part of that does indeed fall on the coach. If we credit Kyle when the O does well we can't simply blame the players when the O doesn't do well. That's having it two ways. We saw NFL players break down the whiffed Burford block and they say it's on Burford and also the scheme from KS sucks, with popping out the center. On both.

Yes let's ignore the fact that the starting RG was injured and that he and Burford both acknowledged it was on Burford not doing his assigned task on that play and go with other NFL players who aren't with the team because that's a way to give Shanahan fault for something a player clearly f'd up.

CMC fumbling = bad luck but someone not doing their job properly is a reflection of the coach?

Has Shanahan ever been described as a guy who lets players do whatever they want? He's not Bill Belichick but he's also not Pete Carroll or any of the player coaches just happy to have a job.

I literally don't ignore that fact, I mention in my post 'it's on Burford'. That doesn't excuse crap scheme that makes it a lil harder on Burford than it probably needs to be (per guy who played NFL OL). So in conclusion, it's on both.

Originally posted by MucketyMuck:
I think it's pretty obvious that a lack of execution is a direct trait of a HC. That's literally part of a coaches job is to have your team prepared to execute. And I would understand if it was one or two things but as you pointed out...and I quote...."We had failures of execution in all phases of the game." that is a direct reflection of a team not prepared and ready.... for the Super Bowl of all games. A team not prepared. A team that failed in all phases. And it's not just one game. There is a history of "failures of execution in all phases of the game." Just like our last SB.

Again, they f**king lost in OT to the best NFL team over the last 5+ years. A multiple SB winner with the game's best player and probably its best coaching staff too. 6 straight times to the conference championship in the better conference.

The 49ers didn't make enough plays to win. Had mistakes in all phases… singular plays that could have changed the outcome of the game. That's not a failure of preparation. Ill prepared teams do not get to this point, especially multiple seasons in a row. You simply can't grasp the concept that they lost to another great team in a 50/50 slugfest because their players made a couple more plays. There's no magic buttons for Shanahan to press here that gives us a clear advantage over any of the great teams in the NFL.

Originally posted by genus49:
Enough with this garbage.

What preparation was needed for OT that wasn't there? I asked you this before and you ignored it because you have nothing of substance behind this take.

Do the rules in OT change in terms of how many downs it takes to move the chains? Do passing vs rushing yards count more? What actually changes in the game they've been prepared to play in any way?

The only surprise was they wouldn't win with a TD. Does that mean they didn't want to score the TD on their opening drive? Did they not want to stop KC from matching or exceeding their points?

It made no difference on the execution. You can make the claim Kyle not going over it doesn't look good in comparison to Reid but considering there was no guarantee OT would even happen maybe Kyle felt their time was better served on planning and practicing the things they knew would actually happen?

We didn't go over OT, they did. This is documented. From ESPN:

Armstead added that he first realized that the postseason overtime rules were different when he saw them displayed on the scoreboard at Allegiant Stadium.
"They put it on the scoreboard, and everyone was like 'Oh, even if you score, they get a chance still,'" Armstead said.

The Chiefs, conversely, said they were well prepared for an overtime contingency in the postseason. Defensive lineman Chris Jones told reporters that Kansas City "talked for two weeks about new overtime rules," while safety Justin Reid said their preparation began in training camp.

"We've talked about it all year," Reid said. "We talked about it in training camp about how the rules were different in regular season versus the playoffs. Every week of the playoffs we talked about the overtime rule."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39511676/49ers-players-say-know-super-bowl-rules

I would expect us to go over it, particularly if they are, and also cuz Shanny has been in SB OT before (SB51). We in fact weren't prepped for any playoff OT (since the rule change).

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
We didn't go over OT, they did. This is documented. From ESPN:

Armstead added that he first realized that the postseason overtime rules were different when he saw them displayed on the scoreboard at Allegiant Stadium.
"They put it on the scoreboard, and everyone was like 'Oh, even if you score, they get a chance still,'" Armstead said.

The Chiefs, conversely, said they were well prepared for an overtime contingency in the postseason. Defensive lineman Chris Jones told reporters that Kansas City "talked for two weeks about new overtime rules," while safety Justin Reid said their preparation began in training camp.

"We've talked about it all year," Reid said. "We talked about it in training camp about how the rules were different in regular season versus the playoffs. Every week of the playoffs we talked about the overtime rule."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39511676/49ers-players-say-know-super-bowl-rules

I would expect us to go over it, particularly if they are, and also cuz Shanny has been in SB OT before (SB51). We in fact weren't prepped for any playoff OT (since the rule change).

Still waiting for how this affected either side of the ball in the context of actual play on the field.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
We didn't go over OT, they did. This is documented. From ESPN:

Armstead added that he first realized that the postseason overtime rules were different when he saw them displayed on the scoreboard at Allegiant Stadium.
"They put it on the scoreboard, and everyone was like 'Oh, even if you score, they get a chance still,'" Armstead said.

The Chiefs, conversely, said they were well prepared for an overtime contingency in the postseason. Defensive lineman Chris Jones told reporters that Kansas City "talked for two weeks about new overtime rules," while safety Justin Reid said their preparation began in training camp.

"We've talked about it all year," Reid said. "We talked about it in training camp about how the rules were different in regular season versus the playoffs. Every week of the playoffs we talked about the overtime rule."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39511676/49ers-players-say-know-super-bowl-rules

I would expect us to go over it, particularly if they are, and also cuz Shanny has been in SB OT before (SB51). We in fact weren't prepped for any playoff OT (since the rule change).

Still waiting for how this affected either side of the ball in the context of actual play on the field.

I'm pro Shanahan. He screwed up his OT decision. Having the ball first put us at a disadvantage. Obviously

edit: I'll help you. Answer this question: why did we kick a field goal in overtime if we knew we needed a TD?

if the answer is "we didn't know we needed a TD", the next question is: why didn't we know we needed a TD?

if the answer is "because we got the ball first"….. yeah that decision was a mistake

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Koldo:

I hope Kyle at least has the Super Bowl OT rules down if we face the Chiefs again.

Still waiting on am explanation as to how that changes anything.

Anyway, it's not worth arguing with the "fire Shanahan" group because they either don't know ball, or are too blinded by extreme fandom in some weird, entitled way. It is worth mentioning tho that a lot of the chess match happens before the game. They come up with a game plan and practice that game plan all week. They don't have time to practice "break in case of emergency" plays. It's not so easy to just say "things aren't working, abandon the game plan amd go to plan B!" Execution would even more unreliable.

Getting 4 years to fix your mistakes before a repeat SB matchup is as "break in case of emergency" as it gets….

Originally posted by MucketyMuck:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by MucketyMuck:
We've brought up the multitude of mistakes ad nauseum. Not making critical mistakes time and time and time and time again is part of being prepared. It's part of a coaches job. As far as Shanny not knowing the rules, that's just one mistake out of many. If he can't even address a basic rule with his team, what else is he forgetting? I mean you listen to KC talk about and they were in awe that our players were oblivious.

This word salad is not remotely close to substantiating the argument.

You and others have specifically and repeatedly criticized the the coach and staff for the players not being aware of the new OT rules. Beyond the fact that you are speculating, you have yet to make any real argument for what effect that had on the team's play in OT. Were they not trying to score a TD regardless of the set of the rules they were playing under? They would have been more desperate to score the TD under the old rules in the first place. They didn't. Once they didn't get the TD, did they not need to get a stop against KC's offense? It would have been the same situation under either set of rules. They didn't. Their play wasn't altered at all. You might have an argument had they scored the TD, mistakingly celebrated a win, and then had the realization that they still had to get a stop. That didn't happen.

Trying to hide the fact that you can't substantiate your argument by speculating that because they didn't know the new rules indicates they may not be prepared in other ways is truly ridiculous. You can't substantiate either argument: that not knowing the new OT rules affected the OT play, or that they were unprepared in any other facet.

We lost... you can sit here and make up all the excuses you want but we lost in OT. That is finite. The 3rd greatest player in history had the ball last and drive down and won the game. Kyle gave him that chance. Not anymore else. Kyle. He put the ball in the best player in the leagues hand to finish the game. It's pretty damn insane that you can't comprehend such common sense. You don't put the ball in Tom Brady's hand to walk off. You don't put the ball in Michael Jordans hands to walk off. Well Shanny does....

"It was [player] fault" incoming in 3…2…1…