49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by DrEll:

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by Koldo:

I hope Kyle at least has the Super Bowl OT rules down if we face the Chiefs again.

Still waiting on am explanation as to how that changes anything.

Anyway, it's not worth arguing with the "fire Shanahan" group because they either don't know ball, or are too blinded by extreme fandom in some weird, entitled way. It is worth mentioning tho that a lot of the chess match happens before the game. They come up with a game plan and practice that game plan all week. They don't have time to practice "break in case of emergency" plays. It's not so easy to just say "things aren't working, abandon the game plan amd go to plan B!" Execution would even more unreliable.

Getting 4 years to fix your mistakes before a repeat SB matchup is as "break in case of emergency" as it gets….

Yes, because for 4 years we've had the same roster and same staff. For 4 years we've ignored weekly game preparation In favor of practicing multiple superbowl game plans for when we inevitably get back. I mean, that's a lot of game plans...game plan for if we trade some picks for CMC, game plan for if we draft a QB with the last pick in the draft, game plan for if Deebo is healthy, game plan for if Deebo is hurt, etc. After all, our roster is so ridiculously stacked, we should just skip all games except the superbowl

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Understand he said 'want the ball third'
I'm quoting the man. If the game goes 3 possessions of OT, we would have had the ball and presumably the advantage. that was his rational, per him.

Oh I know. It's exactly what I said to you now, and in the past.

I didn't write that he was wanting the OT period to go three possessions. You did. More than once with different language. Obviously he wasn't wanting the OT period to go three possessions. Wanted a score, ideally a TD, and a stop.

Let's cut the nonsense. He said what he said. He said we want the ball third. If he was more dialed into a 2 possession game, he doesn't receive. He kicks. A 2 possession game in OT favors the kicking team. Cuz you have full info. Understand the tactics at play here.

Originally posted by 5thSFG:
Posted again so you'll see it:

ok let me explain a little better since this appears more complicated to understand than I thought it would have. To illustrate my point, let's assume the chiefs received the ball first, and their drive went exactly the same as it did…. They scored a touchdown.

then, we receive the ball second and our drive goes exactly the same as it did. Do we still kick the field goal? Nope.

Getting the ball first was a tactical error, as it created an unknown and gave the chiefs a known

lol at the uproar here

Lemme help you out here, my guy. Let's say it plays out how you said. KC gets the ball first and scores. Well, now the 49ers KNOW they need a TD too, great! Thanks to this hypercritical Intel, we also score a TD. Well, fork nuggets, now Mahomes gets the ball back and it's sudden death. To (loosely) quote a genius from this thread: what kind of brain dead headcoach makes the fireable offense of leaving PATRICK FREAKING MAHMOMES, arguably the third best QB EVER, with an opportunity for a walk-off touchdown ?!!??!??!?!??!??!

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by 5thSFG:
Posted again so you'll see it:

ok let me explain a little better since this appears more complicated to understand than I thought it would have. To illustrate my point, let's assume the chiefs received the ball first, and their drive went exactly the same as it did…. They scored a touchdown.

then, we receive the ball second and our drive goes exactly the same as it did. Do we still kick the field goal? Nope.

Getting the ball first was a tactical error, as it created an unknown and gave the chiefs a known

lol at the uproar here

Lemme help you out here, my guy. Let's say it plays out how you said. KC gets the ball first and scores. Well, now the 49ers KNOW they need a TD too, great! Thanks to this hypercritical Intel, we also score a TD. Well, fork nuggets, now Mahomes gets the ball back and it's sudden death. To (loosely) quote a genius from this thread: what kind of brain dead headcoach makes the fireable offense of leaving PATRICK FREAKING MAHMOMES, arguably the third best QB EVER, with an opportunity for a walk-off touchdown ?!!??!??!?!??!??!

If you are using advanced KC tactics, you go for 2 after the TD on 2nd possession. So Mahomes doesn't get it back. You win the SB on the 2 pt convo or die trying.

And if we fail the 2 pt, Kyle is still to blame. After all, execution of that play is on him, correct? Otherwise this conversation wouldn't be happening...if we score a TD and get a stop like we're supposed to, we win.

The arguments I've seen are "shanny is dumb for giving mahomes ball last - unprepared!" Or "didnt know the rules, unprepared!" Well actually, taking the ball 1st IS preparing for the possibility to ensure he can't get the ball last IF our offense executes.

Knowing the rules doesn't mean that his decision would have been any different. And if his decision isn't any different, his game plan wouldn't have been any different. You think he didn't have an OT game plan for if his team lost the coin toss?! I'll tell you what it was. Stop mahomes. Score points.

It doesn't have anything to do with my original question, but I would accept the argument that not knowing the rules MIGHT suggest the coach fails to prepare the team in other areas - that would be a perfectly fine speculation to make. But any small amount of time spent looking for something to substantiate that suspicion leads to plenty of evidence to the contrary. By all accounts, shanny is a perfectionist, and works his guys.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I love my Super Bowl clutch coach
give us the ball 3rd, and we're gonna score !

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Amen, I view it as suboptimal move after suboptimal move, from kicking FGs, to taking the ball 3rd lol, to having some real crap protections and calls. You see 85 next to Brock in pass pro picking up no one. Free rusher. Then you see the center popping out and getting cute and making it probably a lil more complicated for Burford than needed. Another free rusher. Bad protections, bad decisions, bad OT strategy and ill defined or not at all defined in advance on OT with the players. Our leaders saying we had no plan, weren't prepared in advance. That was eye opening.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Amen, there were many Kyle errors

from bad 3rd down pass pro
settling for FGs
not having guys at all prep'd for OT
OT plan of 3rd possession not materializing, giving a benefit to KC of 4 downs

the big one to me, is getting into a 2nd and 5 and getting completely stonewalled. That was our chance to win the SB. Kyle had to solve the riddle of Spags. Or just have some stones and consider 3rd and 5 two down territory, which opens up the run menu on 3rd down. A simple 2nd and 5 resulting in a first down, probably wins us the SB.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Let's cut the nonsense. He said what he said. He said we want the ball third. If he was more dialed into a 2 possession game, he doesn't receive. He kicks. A 2 possession game in OT favors the kicking team. Cuz you have full info. Understand the tactics at play here.

here's three more posts from the past in which you both imply and directly state that his plan was to have a third possession. Add those to the two tonight. Let's cut the nonsense indeed: he said what he said, not what you said (continually, and in plain English).

He's dialed into the possibility that the game could go to a third possession. Just like he said in his quote.

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
And if we fail the 2 pt, Kyle is still to blame. After all, execution of that play is on him, correct? Otherwise this conversation wouldn't be happening...if we score a TD and get a stop like we're supposed to, we win.

The arguments I've seen are "shanny is dumb for giving mahomes ball last - unprepared!" Or "didnt know the rules, unprepared!" Well actually, taking the ball 1st IS preparing for the possibility to ensure he can't get the ball last IF our offense executes.

Knowing the rules doesn't mean that his decision would have been any different. And if his decision isn't any different, his game plan wouldn't have been any different. You think he didn't have an OT game plan for if his team lost the coin toss?! I'll tell you what it was. Stop mahomes. Score points.

It doesn't have anything to do with my original question, but I would accept the argument that not knowing the rules MIGHT suggest the coach fails to prepare the team in other areas - that would be a perfectly fine speculation to make. But any small amount of time spent looking for something to substantiate that suspicion leads to plenty of evidence to the contrary. By all accounts, shanny is a perfectionist, and works his guys.

These guys have no answer. It's been weeks of deflection any time the topic comes up.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
here's three more posts from the past in which you both imply and directly state that his plan was to have a third possession. Add those to the two tonight. Let's cut the nonsense indeed: he said what he said, not what you said (continually, and in plain English).

He's dialed into the possibility that the game could go to a third possession. Just like he said in his quote.

Exactly and to a fault. Cuz understand you diminish yourself on possession one and you aid them on possession 2. The whole reason you handicap yourself like that, is cuz you feel the possibility of possession 3 is sizable (enough so to make it worth the disadvantage). Course KC blew up that logic saying yeah they weren't matching us, they were gonna go all in to beat us.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Exactly and to a fault. Cuz understand you diminish yourself on possession one and you aid them on possession 2. The whole reason you handicap yourself like that, is cuz you feel the possibility of possession 3 is sizable (enough so to make it worth the disadvantage). Course KC blew up that logic saying yeah they weren't matching us, they were gonna go all in to beat us.

And as I mentioned before, you can't seem to connect this thinking to decisions they would make on any 4th and short, especially outside of fg range, if they were to have the ball first… faced with the same exact risk (actually less risk) than what they'd face in a 2pt conversion scenario on the 2nd possession.

If you believe they'd risk it all on that 2pt conversion to avoid sudden death you should also believe they'd risk it all on any other short yardage 4th down (2 or less without question), outside of fg range, to avoid a sudden death scenario on drive 1.

At some down and distance beyond 4th and 2, the defense has the advantage and the conversion rate isn't going to be in the offense's favor. Where do you think it is?

Originally posted by 5thSFG:
ok let me explain a little better since this appears more complicated to understand than I thought it would have. To illustrate my point, let's assume the chiefs received the ball first, and their drive went exactly the same as it did…. They scored a touchdown.

then, we receive the ball second and our drive goes exactly the same as it did. Do we still kick the field goal? Nope.

Getting the ball first was a tactical error, as it created an unknown and gave the chiefs a known

lol at the uproar here.

Simplify it even more. Kyle decided to give his team 3 downs to down the field and score. Coming up short with a FG and knowing that Mahomes would have 4 downs to get down the field to either score a FG or a TD was a monumental "tactical" error. You don't need an analytics team to tell you that. You don't give Patrick Mahomes 4 downs a drive to score. You just don't. Even if the 49ers scored a TD, you still don't want the best player in football working with 4 downs on any given drive. That alone is why you defer. It's such simple reasoning, can't believe fans here are defending that clown like he knew what he was doing. He clearly didn't. As he's shown time and time again, he gets lost in the biggest moments. Goes for 4th down on a drive when they are down by 3, but decides to go for a FG the very next drive when they can close it out. I mean you can pull out example after example going back to the Atlanta game where his in game decisions have been head scratchers. And ppl like to point to single plays and players for botching it. It's pathetic

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:

Originally posted by 5thSFG:
Posted again so you'll see it:

ok let me explain a little better since this appears more complicated to understand than I thought it would have. To illustrate my point, let's assume the chiefs received the ball first, and their drive went exactly the same as it did…. They scored a touchdown.

then, we receive the ball second and our drive goes exactly the same as it did. Do we still kick the field goal? Nope.

Getting the ball first was a tactical error, as it created an unknown and gave the chiefs a known

lol at the uproar here

Lemme help you out here, my guy. Let's say it plays out how you said. KC gets the ball first and scores. Well, now the 49ers KNOW they need a TD too, great! Thanks to this hypercritical Intel, we also score a TD. Well, fork nuggets, now Mahomes gets the ball back and it's sudden death. To (loosely) quote a genius from this thread: what kind of brain dead headcoach makes the fireable offense of leaving PATRICK FREAKING MAHMOMES, arguably the third best QB EVER, with an opportunity for a walk-off touchdown ?!!??!??!?!??!??!

I'm actually not sure what the point of this post is?

We kicked a FG in overtime because the Chiefs scoring a TD was an unknown. If the chiefs had the ball first the TD would have been a known. Don't overcomplicate it… if there is a counter to my position, this certainly isn't it

Originally posted by 5thSFG:
I'm actually not sure what the point of this post is?

We kicked a FG in overtime because the Chiefs scoring a TD was an unknown. If the chiefs had the ball first the TD would have been a known. Don't overcomplicate it… if there is a counter to my position, this certainly isn't it

You get it. If it's a two possession game, you want the ball 2nd. If it's a 3 possession game, you want the ball first. This is part of what Shanny had to bet on. He took the 3 possession side of the bet.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 5thSFG:
I'm actually not sure what the point of this post is?

We kicked a FG in overtime because the Chiefs scoring a TD was an unknown. If the chiefs had the ball first the TD would have been a known. Don't overcomplicate it… if there is a counter to my position, this certainly isn't it

You get it. If it's a two possession game, you want the ball 2nd. If it's a 3 possession game, you want the ball first. This is part of what Shanny had to bet on. He took the 3 possession side of the bet.

For sure. I understand why he made the decision he did, and I certainly wouldn't opine that the OT decision cost us the game. Not in the slightest.

The thing that causes the biggest rub on these boards is the idea that criticism of an individual is indicative of a negative opinion of the individual. I think Kyle is the best coach we've had in a long long time. Wouldn't trade him for any other coach over the last 20 years.

i also think he's prone to overthinking and over strategizing. And it costs us some games.

Personally I wouldn't put Kyle on the list of top 10 reasons we lost the SB. But there were some head scratchers. End of first half clock management. Start of the second half playcalling etc…

But if any one of a long list of player mistakes doesn't get made, we win the SB in spite of the mistakes I thought Kyle made.

we were the sum of our errors

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
You get it. If it's a two possession game, you want the ball 2nd. If it's a 3 possession game, you want the ball first. This is part of what Shanny had to bet on. He took the 3 possession side of the bet.

I have no clue why there is anything to debate.

IMO Kyle played it perfectly Why do I say that?

Because up 3 with 5 plus minutes left. 4th and goal from the 5. We forced a FG. If Reid and Mahomes was so ballsy, why did they kick a FG to tie it up. Why not go for TD to force us to scored a TD? because FG was the smart play.

Down 3 with 6 seconds left on 2nd and 10. If Reid and Mahomes was so ballsy why did they kick a FG to tie it up and force OT? because FG was the smart play.

So taking the ball 1st knowing you just held them to tie it up twice is the smart play. Especially knowing it's sudden death starting the 3rd possession.

For those arguing the Chiefs would have went for 2 for the win. Why didn't they gamble like that on their last 2 possessions?

Originally posted by 5thSFG:
For sure. I understand why he made the decision he did, and I certainly wouldn't opine that the OT decision cost us the game. Not in the slightest.

The thing that causes the biggest rub on these boards is the idea that criticism of an individual is indicative of a negative opinion of the individual. I think Kyle is the best coach we've had in a long long time. Wouldn't trade him for any other coach over the last 20 years.

i also think he's prone to overthinking and over strategizing. And it costs us some games.

Personally I wouldn't put Kyle on the list of top 10 reasons we lost the SB. But there were some head scratchers. End of first half clock management. Start of the second half playcalling etc…

But if any one of a long list of player mistakes doesn't get made, we win the SB in spite of the mistakes I thought Kyle made.

we were the sum of our errors

What causes the biggest rub on these boards is the negative trolling by those that can't backup what they say or wildly change their standards depending on who is being discussed. There is also a desperation from a select group for failure to prop up the former QB.

You don't fit in with that group so don't feel you are included.

The sum of our errors line is spot on.