49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by mcwoot:
Crazy what the other offense's team can do when you leave them time on the clock

They didn't leave any more time on the clock than run plays would have taken until the game was tied and under two minutes. The math doesn't change magically because a guy runs the ball and is tackled in bounds vs. when a guy catches the ball and is tackled in bounds.

How can you not understand this basic principle of how the game clock works?

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by mcwoot:
Crazy what the other offense's team can do when you leave them time on the clock

They didn't leave any more time on the clock than run plays would have taken until the game was tied and under two minutes. The math doesn't change magically because a guy runs the ball and is tackled in bounds vs. when a guy catches the ball and is tackled in bounds.

How can you not understand this basic principle of how the game clock works?

You are so right we lost a game that we led for 59 minutes

I think anyone who doesn't realize that completed pass inbounds achieve the same thing clock-wise as running, probably shouldn't be talking about strategy or game managing.

Kyle is an excellent coach with a couple blaring shortcomings. For whatever reason his teams lack killer instinct, and when out of his comfort zone his play calling gets too cute.

I'm onboard until he bones another playoff/Superbowl victory.

Originally posted by sick9erfan:
Kyle is an excellent coach with a couple blaring shortcomings. For whatever reason his teams lack killer instinct, and when out of his comfort zone his play calling gets too cute.

I'm onboard until he bones another playoff/Superbowl victory.

Count on it. Even bet money on it.

Originally posted by mcwoot:
When your defense sucks it's generally accepted logic to play keep away and not let them have the ball

If there were incomplete passes that resulted in stopping the clock in the 4th quarter before the 2 minute warning providing more time for the Rams you'd have a point. There weren't.

3rd quarter:

Rams punt.
49ers TD drive
Rams TD drive

Arguing that more runs should have been called on a 3rd quarter TD drive seems silly on its face. It was a 6:27 drive.

Niners get the ball again with 3:53 left. They get to 3rd and 1 in the red zone as the quarter ends. 3rd quarter plays on this drive were 3 runs, 2 completed passes,1 Purdy scramble and 1 incomplete pass.

Here's every play the 49ers had on offense in the 4th quarter before the game was tied and how it impacted the clock:

49ers up 7

3rd and 1 on LA 18 @15:00 - QB Sneak, no gain. (RUN - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCKED STOPPED DUE TO REPLAY REVIEW ON FUMBLE)
4th and 1 on LA 18 @14:52 - QB Sneak, gain of 2 (RUN - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
1st and 10 on LA 16 @14:09 - Pass play, Purdy scrambles for 8 (PASS CALL, RUN PLAY - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
2nd and 2 on LA 8 @13:25 - Mason for 1 (RUN - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
3rd and 1 on LA 7 @12:44 - Mason run for -1 (RUN - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
4th and 2 on LA 8 @11:57 - FG to go up by 10

Possible plays in 4th quarter on drive that could have more time run off with a run call: 0
Drive time: 6:56 total (3:53 3rd, 3:03 4th)

49ers up 7, following drive

1st and 10 on SF 30 @6:15 - Pass to Jennings for 15 (PASS - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
1st and 10 on SF 45 @5:35 - Mason for 9 (RUN - TACKLE OUT OF BOUNDS OVER 5 MINS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
2nd and 1 on LA 46 @4:57 - Mason for 4 (RUN - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
1st and 10 on LA 42 @4:14 - Guerendo run called back for holding (RUN - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK STOPS FOR PENALTY)
1st and 20 on SF 48 @4:08 - Pass to Jennings for 5 (PASS - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
2nd and 16 on LA 47 @3:11 - Pass to Jennings for 7 (PASS - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING; RAMS CALL TIMEOUT)
3rd and 8 on LA 40 @3:08 - Pass play, Purdy scrambles for 3 (PASS CALL, RUN PLAY - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING; RAMS CALL TIMEOUT)
4th and 5 on LA 37 @2:47 - FG wide left

Possible plays on drive that could have more time run off with a run call: 0
Drive time: 3:28 total, Rams used 2 timeouts

Where does a run play drain the clock more on those two drives? No plays in the 4th quarter before the game was tied and under 2:00 if called differently would have taken off more clock. You can argue the one incompletion on the FG drive in the 3rd quarter could have been a run, but it was still a 7 minute scoring drive to go up by two scores.

The defense and special teams get most of the blame. After SF went up 14 they allowed TD, FG, TD, FG. 20 points on four drives.

But sure, let's blame the loss on the offensive play calls.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:
I think anyone who doesn't realize that completed pass inbounds achieve the same thing clock-wise as running, probably shouldn't be talking about strategy or game managing.

According to NFLSavant.com season to date 49ers rush plays take 21.2% more time off the clock than completed passes

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by mcwoot:
When your defense sucks it's generally accepted logic to play keep away and not let them have the ball

If there were incomplete passes that resulted in stopping the clock in the 4th quarter before the 2 minute warning providing more time for the Rams you'd have a point. There weren't.

3rd quarter:

Rams punt.
49ers TD drive
Rams TD drive

Arguing that more runs should have been called on a 3rd quarter TD drive seems silly on its face. It was a 6:27 drive.

Niners get the ball again with 3:53 left. They get to 3rd and 1 in the red zone as the quarter ends. 3rd quarter plays on this drive were 3 runs, 2 completed passes,1 Purdy scramble and 1 incomplete pass.

Here's every play the 49ers had on offense in the 4th quarter before the game was tied and how it impacted the clock:

49ers up 7

3rd and 1 on LA 18 @15:00 - QB Sneak, no gain. (RUN - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCKED STOPPED DUE TO REPLAY REVIEW ON FUMBLE)
4th and 1 on LA 18 @14:52 - QB Sneak, gain of 2 (RUN - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
1st and 10 on LA 16 @14:09 - Pass play, Purdy scrambles for 8 (PASS CALL, RUN PLAY - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
2nd and 2 on LA 8 @13:25 - Mason for 1 (RUN - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
3rd and 1 on LA 7 @12:44 - Mason run for -1 (RUN - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
4th and 2 on LA 8 @11:57 - FG to go up by 10

Possible plays in 4th quarter on drive that could have more time run off with a run call: 0
Drive time: 6:56 total (3:53 3rd, 3:03 4th)

49ers up 7, following drive

1st and 10 on SF 30 @6:15 - Pass to Jennings for 15 (PASS - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
1st and 10 on SF 45 @5:35 - Mason for 9 (RUN - TACKLE OUT OF BOUNDS OVER 5 MINS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
2nd and 1 on LA 46 @4:57 - Mason for 4 (RUN - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
1st and 10 on LA 42 @4:14 - Guerendo run called back for holding (RUN - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK STOPS FOR PENALTY)
1st and 20 on SF 48 @4:08 - Pass to Jennings for 5 (PASS - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING)
2nd and 16 on LA 47 @3:11 - Pass to Jennings for 7 (PASS - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING; RAMS CALL TIMEOUT)
3rd and 8 on LA 40 @3:08 - Pass play, Purdy scrambles for 3 (PASS CALL, RUN PLAY - TACKLE IN BOUNDS - CLOCK KEEPS RUNNING; RAMS CALL TIMEOUT)
4th and 5 on LA 37 @2:47 - FG wide left

Possible plays on drive that could have more time run off with a run call: 0
Drive time: 3:28 total, Rams used 2 timeouts

Where does a run play drain the clock more on those two drives? No plays in the 4th quarter before the game was tied and under 2:00 if called differently would have taken off more clock. You can argue the one incompletion on the FG drive in the 3rd quarter could have been a run, but it was still a 7 minute scoring drive to go up by two scores.

The defense and special teams get most of the blame. After SF went up 14 they allowed TD, FG, TD, FG. 20 points on four drives.

But sure, let's blame the loss on the offensive play calls.

You built a game losing game plan, congrats

Originally posted by mcwoot:
According to NFLSavant.com season to date 49ers rush plays take 21.2% more time off the clock than completed passes

This is the danger of reliance on (and cherry picking of) stats over understanding of the game, with context to it.

You naturally run more when you're trying to milk the clock and pass less. So obviously, you running plays on average will take more time than passing. Because when you're passing and trying to catch up from being down, you will minimize wasted time.

In this case and instance, a completed pass achieved the exact same thing as a run play. Yes, an incomplete pass is a possibility that needs to be considered (and if you argued that point itd make sense), but the net result is exactly the same. You arguing anything but that is baffling.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by mcwoot:
According to NFLSavant.com season to date 49ers rush plays take 21.2% more time off the clock than completed passes

This is the danger of reliance on (and cherry picking of) stats over understanding of the game, with context to it.

You naturally run more when you're trying to milk the clock and pass less. So obviously, you running plays on average will take more time than passing. Because when you're passing and trying to catch up from being down, you will minimize wasted time.

In this case and instance, a completed pass achieved the exact same thing as a run play. Yes, an incomplete pass is a possibility that needs to be considered (and if you argued that point itd make sense), but the net result is exactly the same. You arguing anything but that is baffling.

We were in the lead for 59 minutes and 58 seconds when the hell else are you supposed to milk the clock? These are the games milking the clock was made for

Originally posted by mcwoot:
According to NFLSavant.com season to date 49ers rush plays take 21.2% more time off the clock than completed passes

Time between plays in 4th quarter before 2:00 drive when clock ran:

Runs/Scrambles: 43, 44, 41, 47, 38, 43

AVERAGE TIME: 42.6

Passes (all attempts were completed): 40, 57

AVERAGE TIME: 48.5

All other plays had clock stopped by review (on a run), penalty (on a run) or opponent timeout (twice on completed passes in bounds).

Give it up, man, and put your blame where it belongs: On Shanahan for the special teams and defense in the second half.

Originally posted by captveg:
Arguing that more runs should have been called on a 3rd quarter TD drive seems silly on its face. It was a 6:27 drive

This is exactly where you are wrong. We needed a 12 minute drive here.

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by mcwoot:
According to NFLSavant.com season to date 49ers rush plays take 21.2% more time off the clock than completed passes

Time between plays in 4th quarter before 2:00 drive when clock ran:

Runs/Scrambles: 43, 44, 41, 47, 38, 43

AVERAGE TIME: 42.6

Passes (all attempts were completed): 40, 57

AVERAGE TIME: 48.5

All other plays had clock stopped by review (on a run), penalty (on a run) or opponent timeout (twice on completed passes in bounds).

Give it up, man, and put your blame where it belongs: On Shanahan for the special teams and defense in the second half.

Special teams and defense sucked, won't argue that at all. The offensive playcaller absolutely exacerbated that. Which he has a pattern of doing.

Kyle has shown no or little ability to modify his game plan to fit the game flor. More often than not in competitive games he does the opposite. That's why he needs a game day play caller.

Originally posted by mcwoot:
We were in the lead for 59 minutes and 58 seconds when the hell else are you supposed to milk the clock? These are the games milking the clock was made for

But you still haven't shown WHERE on those drives the clock could have been milked! I went through every play. 49ers had the ball 10 minutes of the 3rd quarter. They then had ZERO plays in the 4th quarter before the game was tied and they got it back under two minutes where a run call would have taken more time off the clock.

Show me, SPECIFICALLY, where a run play would have taken more time off the clock in the 4th quarter before the Rams tied the game and we got the ball back under two minutes. I'll even grant you that the under two minutes drive could have taken more time off the clock, but of course with the game tied under two minutes you're gonna pass more than run and generally try to preserve time

Show me the plays. Lay 'em out in detail. I'll be waiting.