49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by Crown:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
I'm honestly not seeing the whole shanahan has gotten the most out of his QBs. The only evidence we have is that Jimmy was pretty mediocre with the raiders after he left. Could mean any good habits he had learned from the Patriots were undone by us.

In my opinion I've only seen regression from really good QB play in years 1-2 to a big step back in year 3. To me this screams he got a good QB and then ruined him.

The evidence is Jimmy was killing it year one and purdy was as well. Now in year 3 they should have taken a huge step forward but instead regressed. Nevermind lance who couldn't even get onto the field.

The rawest most talented prospect didn't improve at all with full molding done by shanahan. The ones that were good before they came here have only regressed each year since being here.

I have long wondered it is because in year 1 his Qbs are playing loose and raw and then in years 2 to 3 he dumps a massive playbook on them and just takes away some of their natural instincts.

I could be wildly wrong on this but it is a theory I am working on.

It's not unique to Kyle or the Niners. Young QBs often come off the bench or have a good rookie season because other teams simply don't have the detailed book on them yet. Once DCs learn their strengths, weaknesses and tendencies they can defend them better.

Other than the reach for Lance, the Niners haven't had a high draft pick at QB for years. Alex Smith was their last 1st rounder other than Lance. The other QBs have been mostly mid or late round picks that were projects. Alex Smith hassome talent but unfortunatley the Niners wer epoorly coached for the first few years of his career. Lance was just over valued in a very weak QB class.

I do not understand why so many people who post here and are therefore probably 49ers supporters are so desperate to see Shanahan sacked.

After the departures of Walsh and Seifert, this place was a shambles for ages, with the brief and only partial exception of Mariucci. Regarding other HC's, how long did it take Andy Reid to win a Super Bowl? How many did Bill Cowher win? Don Shula is one of the winningest HC's in NFL history. How many Super Bowls did he win? And of course, the biggest question of all. Who would we replace Shanahan with?

It's only when you lose something that you realise what you had.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by Crown:

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
I'm honestly not seeing the whole shanahan has gotten the most out of his QBs. The only evidence we have is that Jimmy was pretty mediocre with the raiders after he left. Could mean any good habits he had learned from the Patriots were undone by us.

In my opinion I've only seen regression from really good QB play in years 1-2 to a big step back in year 3. To me this screams he got a good QB and then ruined him.

The evidence is Jimmy was killing it year one and purdy was as well. Now in year 3 they should have taken a huge step forward but instead regressed. Nevermind lance who couldn't even get onto the field.

The rawest most talented prospect didn't improve at all with full molding done by shanahan. The ones that were good before they came here have only regressed each year since being here.

I have long wondered it is because in year 1 his Qbs are playing loose and raw and then in years 2 to 3 he dumps a massive playbook on them and just takes away some of their natural instincts.

I could be wildly wrong on this but it is a theory I am working on.

It's not unique to Kyle or the Niners. Young QBs often come off the bench or have a good rookie season because other teams simply don't have the detailed book on them yet. Once DCs learn their strengths, weaknesses and tendencies they can defend them better.

That certainly happens as well.

Originally posted by English:
I do not understand why so many people who post here and are therefore probably 49ers supporters are so desperate to see Shanahan sacked.

After the departures of Walsh and Seifert, this place was a shambles for ages, with the brief and only partial exception of Mariucci. Regarding other HC's, how long did it take Andy Reid to win a Super Bowl? How many did Bill Cowher win? Don Shula is one of the winningest HC's in NFL history. How many Super Bowls did he win? And of course, the biggest question of all. Who would we replace Shanahan with?

It's only when you lose something that you realise what you had.

Most of the fire KS posts are emotionally juvenile responses. Social Media is littered with "this person should be fired"

imagine if people said this about us in our jobs anytime we made a mistake or missed forecast...

Originally posted by Crown:
Most of the fire KS posts are emotionally juvenile responses. Social Media is littered with "this person should be fired"

imagine if people said this about us in our jobs anytime we made a mistake or missed forecast...

Yeah. Depressing isn't it!

Originally posted by English:
I do not understand why so many people who post here and are therefore probably 49ers supporters are so desperate to see Shanahan sacked.

After the departures of Walsh and Seifert, this place was a shambles for ages, with the brief and only partial exception of Mariucci. Regarding other HC's, how long did it take Andy Reid to win a Super Bowl? How many did Bill Cowher win? Don Shula is one of the winningest HC's in NFL history. How many Super Bowls did he win? And of course, the biggest question of all. Who would we replace Shanahan with?

It's only when you lose something that you realise what you had.

Because he has the same problem as harbaugh had. He's making the same mistakes 8 years in and failing to adapt.

I get the argument that he is one of the better head coaches in the league right now but if you fail to adapt it doesn't matter.

Id take a worse coach who can figure out how to adapt and get better than continue with q coach that's above average but not getting better.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Shanahan is making the same personnel mistakes, game management mistakes, play calling mistakes he made in year 2 as year 5 as year 8.

He will make the same mistakes in year 15. It's been good enough to get close but not good enough to win a SB.

The rosters in its worst spot in years so I expect results to be pretty mediocre for the next 2 years. Barring some generational overwhelming talent this teams going to continue to make the same personnel, game management, and play calling mistakes just how it has.

Ie no Superbowl... If shanahan was actually getting better it would be one thing but he's not.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
Because he has the same problem as harbaugh had. He's making the same mistakes 8 years in and failing to adapt.

I get the argument that he is one of the better head coaches in the league right now but if you fail to adapt it doesn't matter.

Id take a worse coach who can figure out how to adapt and get better than continue with q coach that's above average but not getting better.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

Shanahan is making the same personnel mistakes, game management mistakes, play calling mistakes he made in year 2 as year 5 as year 8.

He will make the same mistakes in year 15. It's been good enough to get close but not good enough to win a SB.

The rosters in its worst spot in years so I expect results to be pretty mediocre for the next 2 years. Barring some generational overwhelming talent this teams going to continue to make the same personnel, game management, and play calling mistakes just how it has.

Ie no Superbowl... If shanahan was actually getting better it would be one thing but he's not.

He has actually shown improvement, or a willingness to change, in some areas.

For example, if you look at 4th down decision making, I believe we were the single most conservative team for multiple seasons prior to 2023. In 2023 however we were not. We were one of the more aggressive teams through the bulk of the season. The only caveat to that is we did not face a bunch of those situations.

You have to consider he's coaching to the strengths of his personnel. Having a QB he trusts is going to make it easier to go on those 4th downs mentioned above. And his offenses in general have been molded around his QB's strengths (ie RG3, Jimmy G, Trey Lance)… you can see the adaptability between these situations.

I would like to see him improve in clock management and be more varied in how he uses time and pace to our advantage. I personally think this is a real weakness. It also may not necessarily be suited to our players so it's hard to tell if this is just a product of stubbornness.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Bringbackedjr:
The choke argument, at least when I have used it, refers to blown Super Bowls and blown leads in 4th q. Assigning the choke label to coaches simply because they don't win playoff games regardless of all the factors that impact success is retaliatory against anyone who has criticized Kyle. I would argue that we have more of a coaching problem than the lions. Set aside Kyle. We are heading for our 3rd DC in as many years. We have no OC, no STC.

Head to head, Kyle is a much better coach than Dan Campbell. There is no question about it but I would argue Dan C is getting better in the role while Kyle has stalled. Kyle will have plenty of opportunities to shed the choker label. Lets hope that happens sooner rather than later.

When you constantly have one of the best teams in the league every yr only to lose in the playoffs….how is that not choking? That game last night was full of Baltimore TOs and dropped balls. How is that not choking? Same s**t for the Lions. Cool you did great in season and then choked when it mattered…they couldn't even get to the big game.

IMO it's worse when you can't even get to a SB with a QB who's consistently in the convo as the league MVP. Only to go belly up in the most important games that THEY get to play in EVERY yr.

the lions are losing both guys that called plays. Dan isn't a OC or DC. You can't just assume they will carry on the same UNLESS you're telling me Brad Johnson didn't matter for them?

I mean McVay choked away the game all the same. Multiple TOs. His OL gave up like 5-6 sacks over 10 TFL. He stopped running the ball and his defense gave up over 200 yards to Barkley. Choked.

It's just constant hypocrisy with Kyle vs other HCs in this league. Legit the only dude you could not call a "choker" is Reid and he was the poster child for choking for over 25 yrs (and choked away a couple SBs as well). It's all dumb and according to fans everyone should be fired everywhere

I agree with much of what you said. You can apply that label to a lot of coaches. I was simply pointing out that the lions lost because they were short handed on defense and blaming the loss on the oc was unfair and inaccurate. He blew one call and you can't win playoff games with 5 turnovers. People were coming out of the woodwork to crap on BJ not because he deserves it but because it allowed them to snipe against fans who criticize Kyle and/or like BJ. In terms of coaching staffs, Detroit may lose both coordinators because they are well respected and wanted. We are losing them because they failed or are fall guys for a 6 win season. That is a very stark difference of circumstance. For the record I don't think we need to move away from Kyle this year and I don't believe we should move away next year if he can show progress. How much progress? Lets start with a winning record and a solid offseason with the draft and free agency. Not a very high bar. I have changed my tune with Kyle. It's more about getting the right players and supporting coaching staff than it is about him being a choker or not. Watching the playoffs without emotion makes you appreciate what you have and hopefull for the future. I think Kyle is a good coach with an unfortunate past. Like I said before, he can erase that. He is more than capable of doing so.

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
I'm honestly not seeing the whole shanahan has gotten the most out of his QBs. The only evidence we have is that Jimmy was pretty mediocre with the raiders after he left. Could mean any good habits he had learned from the Patriots were undone by us.

In my opinion I've only seen regression from really good QB play in years 1-2 to a big step back in year 3. To me this screams he got a good QB and then ruined him.

The evidence is Jimmy was killing it year one and purdy was as well. Now in year 3 they should have taken a huge step forward but instead regressed. Nevermind lance who couldn't even get onto the field.

The rawest most talented prospect didn't improve at all with full molding done by shanahan. The ones that were good before they came here have only regressed each year since being here.

There's a difference between getting the most out of a QB and that QB being good enough to sustain success and develop themselves. It isn't just a coach makes you a better QB thing.

Who was Kyle's most talented QB ever? Matt Ryan? His best season was with Kyle. He was never a MVP after Kyle left. RG3 was super talented but extremely raw as a pocket passer. Still him and his father got him to be OROY. Injuries f**ked up his development. Same s**t with Kirk. He's not uber talented, but the system got him going and he was able to develop into a decent QB.

all the other guys are all regarded as not elite talent…Schaub's best yr was with Kyle. Jimmy got paid in SF and everyone thought he was better than he actually was. Brock 7th rd pick is about to get a massive pay day. s**t Nick Mullens and CJ are still backups in the league on their second or third contracts.

SOMETIMES there is not huge "leap forward" because of talent. sometimes they are who they are and Kyle's system keeps it all going. He's proven he doesn't need an elite level QB to get results…but sometimes to get that ring you need that extra when s**t breaks down or you just need your QB to go out and make a play.

Originally posted by Bringbackedjr:
I agree with much of what you said. You can apply that label to a lot of coaches. I was simply pointing out that the lions lost because they were short handed on defense and blaming the loss on the oc was unfair and inaccurate. He blew one call and you can't win playoff games with 5 turnovers. People were coming out of the woodwork to crap on BJ not because he deserves it but because it allowed them to snipe against fans who criticize Kyle and/or like BJ. In terms of coaching staffs, Detroit may lose both coordinators because they are well respected and wanted. We are losing them because they failed or are fall guys for a 6 win season. That is a very stark difference of circumstance. For the record I don't think we need to move away from Kyle this year and I don't believe we should move away next year if he can show progress. How much progress? Lets start with a winning record and a solid offseason with the draft and free agency. Not a very high bar. I have changed my tune with Kyle. It's more about getting the right players and supporting coaching staff than it is about him being a choker or not. Watching the playoffs without emotion makes you appreciate what you have and hopefull for the future. I think Kyle is a good coach with an unfortunate past. Like I said before, he can erase that. He is more than capable of doing so.

we lost years worth of coaches because they were well respected…much like the draft you're not gonna bat 100 replacing coaches.

yes watching the playoffs shows that the work choking is dumb. It shows that 99% of every season is gonna end in some sort of failure. It shows that no coach is perfect and sometimes the reactionary fire everyone is pretty off emotion and doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
It's not unique to Kyle or the Niners. Young QBs often come off the bench or have a good rookie season because other teams simply don't have the detailed book on them yet. Once DCs learn their strengths, weaknesses and tendencies they can defend them better.

Other than the reach for Lance, the Niners haven't had a high draft pick at QB for years. Alex Smith was their last 1st rounder other than Lance. The other QBs have been mostly mid or late round picks that were projects. Alex Smith hassome talent but unfortunatley the Niners wer epoorly coached for the first few years of his career. Lance was just over valued in a very weak QB class.

As far as Kyle goes, hasn't been working with the most gifted QBs for most of his career. People talk about developing and all that, it's why folks talk about ceilings and not every QB has the same one.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Afrikan:
Yes, because we have the same built up expectations as Lions fans.

Jesus Christ.

They will be calling for his head if they continue to lose in the playoffs. Especially while they still have that talent.

What expectations? Why are there's any different? Because SF was good in the late 80s early 90s? lol please

Oh God, why is it f**king necessary for me to have to point it out? How is it not that f**king obvious?

We have had heart breaking losses to end our seasons with stacked f**king teams. There were/are players on these teams that played their hearts out at a high level for our team. They deserved a Super Bowl ring(s). I want a Ring for Kittle, for Warner, for CMC, for Patrick Willis, for Justin f**king Smith, etc

2011 season, NFC Champion Game against the Giants. Should have definitely have won.

2012 season, Super Bowl vs Ravens.. tough match up, but we right there to win it.

2013 season, NFC Champion vs Seahawks... again tough match up, but we were right there to win it.

2019 season Super Bowl vs Chiefs... should have f**king won it with our two score lead with 7mins to go.

2021 season NFC Championship vs Chiefs, should have f**king won it with our two score lead with similar time to go.

2022 season NFC Championship vs Eagles, bad f**king luck!

2023 season Super Bowl vs Chiefs... once again had a two score lead, but didn't pull away. Heart breaking ending.

YOU WANT TO COMPARE THAT EXPERIENCE TO f**kING LIONS?

Yes the f**k we do have higher built up expectations than Lions fans.

Arguing who had it worse between 1919-2003 Red Sox and Cubs fans seems pointless. That's what this thread has become.

So Ravens were a tough matchup but the Chiefs weren't?

This is always the problem. Different standard. So we are more upset about losing leads to a dynasty then a game we were 5.5 point favorites against because the team sucked for 2 1/2 quarters and built a hole it couldn't get out of. Makes zero sense.

Not going all in on Oline in last year's draft which was a draft that was regarded as one of the better Oline drafts was a mistake.

Before the draft I felt a successful draft (aside from getting hall of famer/all pros which we all want) was getting 2 starting O linemen with one of them being a tackle.

Before the Pearsall pick, Rosengarten (a tackle) and Zach Frazier (center) were on the board.

It's known that the 49ers were targeting Roger Rosengarten in the 2nd round before the Ravens traded up for him. Sometimes that happens. But if you really want a guy or have a need, you make the move.

People will say it's hindsight, but these guys (Rosengarten and Frazier) were well regarded before the draft and expected to be available in between late 1st and 2nd (exactly where we could get them). I know value is important but you need to draft keeping in mind the type of team you want to construct. I don't think Pearsall is as bad as the stats show. He's not getting the ball. But we are a running team first and foremost and he wasn't a burner that would be filling a void.

Imagine a combination of Puni & Rosengarten or Puni & Frazier. Or in an ideal world getting all 3. Half of your Oline is secured for the next 3-4 years. With a stronger line these short yardage situations are less of a problem. We could have used that this season.

Next year we are back to square one having needs on Oline and Dline. Too early to tell who we need to target, but I hope we have some obvious choices like we did this year.