Replacing the Strength and Conditioning Staff

Originally posted by RonMexico:
Alex...foster...armstead.....goodwin...

our doctors don't care bout no mediocre players

really though, did we have many injuries during the harbaugh superbowl time? think we had the same team doctors but different training staff obviously

Ding Ding. Harbaugh had bigger stronger players.

Originally posted by Crown:

Originally posted by RonMexico:

Alex...foster...armstead.....goodwin...

our doctors don't care bout no mediocre players

really though, did we have many injuries during the harbaugh superbowl time? think we had the same team doctors but different training staff obviously

Ding Ding. Harbaugh had bigger stronger players.

2013 & 2014 would beg to differ

The frustrating thing is that injuries are cyclical. They ARE random as Kyle has said. The problem is that the cycle can sometimes be longer thus more frustrating than anyone would like.

It is also true that players with poor technique are more likely to be injured than those with good technique. Good technique protects you from being in a vulnerable position. Of course brings up the question of why do players have poor technique. We can't always answer that. Some of it is coaching but some of it is that some players are not able to master better technique. Those guys get hurt. One could say that Garoppolo was using poor 'technique' by trying to stay in bounds instead of stepping out but that doesn't answer the question of why his ACL tore in an average running situation. Random?

After the past two years, it may just be that Ray Wright is the scapegoat for "random," or the team just feels a need to make a change to send a message they are doing whatever they can to reduce injuries. As was said earlier, if the team drops back to the mean number of injuries, the new guy will get the credit for a mathematical balance having been achieved.

Since knees have been such a problem, I wonder if certain positions/players should wear knee braces for protection. Also routine MRIs to determine if minor, partial tears are progressing toward something season-ending.

Condition is something that can be tracked.

Statistically shouldn't the team know the progress of the players? If the team is not tracking body fat percentages, and heart rate variances...it darn well should be.

Its not a stretch to say exhaustion and fatigue could contribute to nagging injuries, penalties, and blown assignments.

It seems this is something the team should be able to quantify.

I am in know way shape or form in a position to offer anything other than uneducated speculation....but i could see how a team could be enamored with muscle mass at the expense of connective tissue. It reminds me of Steve Young and his groin issues early on in his career. He straight up said he took up roller blading as his no impact cardio to save his knees....only to find out his hips and groin suffered. He gave up on Roller Blading and you never heard a peep about his hips and groin again.

I could see how a Strength and Conditioning coach could be stuck on the idea i will move the needle and make this team stronger, only to find out it is at the expense resilience. I am not saying that did happen, but I could see how the wrong regiment could contribute to the teams IR woes.

I will say this, as a Suns fan, I saw their team training staff work miracles on guys like Steve Nash, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill and Shaq. They were often in bad shape before coming to the team and would often fall apart after leaving the team but whatever those dudes were doing was definitely working.


However good they might be, they still can't keep Booker consistently healthy, nor could they prevent Brandon Knight from tearing his ACL. Sometimes s**t just happens with nobody to blame.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
I will say this, as a Suns fan, I saw their team training staff work miracles on guys like Steve Nash, Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill and Shaq. They were often in bad shape before coming to the team and would often fall apart after leaving the team but whatever those dudes were doing was definitely working.

However good they might be, they still can't keep Booker consistently healthy, nor could they prevent Brandon Knight from tearing his ACL. Sometimes s**t just happens with nobody to blame.

Yeah the suns for the longest time had that reputation of having an amazing training staff. A lot of factors go into injuries. Luck, technique, conditioning, the player themselves, the field , etc. Firing the S&T coach is a good move though.

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by dj43:
The frustrating thing is that injuries are cyclical. They ARE random as Kyle has said. The problem is that the cycle can sometimes be longer thus more frustrating than anyone would like.

It is also true that players with poor technique are more likely to be injured than those with good technique. Good technique protects you from being in a vulnerable position. Of course brings up the question of why do players have poor technique. We can't always answer that. Some of it is coaching but some of it is that some players are not able to master better technique. Those guys get hurt. One could say that Garoppolo was using poor 'technique' by trying to stay in bounds instead of stepping out but that doesn't answer the question of why his ACL tore in an average running situation. Random?

After the past two years, it may just be that Ray Wright is the scapegoat for "random," or the team just feels a need to make a change to send a message they are doing whatever they can to reduce injuries. As was said earlier, if the team drops back to the mean number of injuries, the new guy will get the credit for a mathematical balance having been achieved.

Now this is interesting and some of it falls on the coaches coaching the proper technique. Admittedly I'm not sure at this level how much S&C would have input on proper technique to keep players healthy.

I don't know who said it during one game in the gameday thread that he noticed the 49ers RBs all have "lazy feet" in that at the end of their runs they don't keep picking up their feet causing an inordinate amount of legs being rolled up by the pile and right on cue, Breida gets his legs rolled and comes out. I thought that was an interesting observation and wasn't reminded of it until your comment dj.

Any of you notice something like this? I certainly haven't spent a lot of time watching for this.

Frank Gore developed great technique for finishing a run and at the same time, protecting himself. If you recall, he always went low into a pile. It was like he was trying to fit himself head-first between the knees of defenders. This resulted in an extra yard of two most of the time while also protecting his knees. It isn't by accident he is still a productive pro after suffering major injuries to both knees while still in college.

Shanahan should consider bringing Frank back as assistant RB coach if for no other reason than to teach the guys how to finish runs the way he did.

Originally posted by WestCoastForever:

Since knees have been such a problem, I wonder if certain positions/players should wear knee braces for protection. Also routine MRIs to determine if minor, partial tears are progressing toward something season-ending.

Really really good idea.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by dj43:
The frustrating thing is that injuries are cyclical. They ARE random as Kyle has said. The problem is that the cycle can sometimes be longer thus more frustrating than anyone would like.

It is also true that players with poor technique are more likely to be injured than those with good technique. Good technique protects you from being in a vulnerable position. Of course brings up the question of why do players have poor technique. We can't always answer that. Some of it is coaching but some of it is that some players are not able to master better technique. Those guys get hurt. One could say that Garoppolo was using poor 'technique' by trying to stay in bounds instead of stepping out but that doesn't answer the question of why his ACL tore in an average running situation. Random?

After the past two years, it may just be that Ray Wright is the scapegoat for "random," or the team just feels a need to make a change to send a message they are doing whatever they can to reduce injuries. As was said earlier, if the team drops back to the mean number of injuries, the new guy will get the credit for a mathematical balance having been achieved.

Now this is interesting and some of it falls on the coaches coaching the proper technique. Admittedly I'm not sure at this level how much S&C would have input on proper technique to keep players healthy.

I don't know who said it during one game in the gameday thread that he noticed the 49ers RBs all have "lazy feet" in that at the end of their runs they don't keep picking up their feet causing an inordinate amount of legs being rolled up by the pile and right on cue, Breida gets his legs rolled and comes out. I thought that was an interesting observation and wasn't reminded of it until your comment dj.

Any of you notice something like this? I certainly haven't spent a lot of time watching for this.

Frank Gore developed great technique for finishing a run and at the same time, protecting himself. If you recall, he always went low into a pile. It was like he was trying to fit himself head-first between the knees of defenders. This resulted in an extra yard of two most of the time while also protecting his knees. It isn't by accident he is still a productive pro after suffering major injuries to both knees while still in college.

Shanahan should consider bringing Frank back as assistant RB coach if for no other reason than to teach the guys how to finish runs the way he did.

I can dig Gore coming back as a RB coach. If it means he can teach them his vision

Thrilled we have a new S & C team coming in this year. Hope to have much better results than the last few seasons

Originally posted by dj43:

The frustrating thing is that injuries are cyclical. They ARE random as Kyle has said. The problem is that the cycle can sometimes be longer thus more frustrating than anyone would like.

It is also true that players with poor technique are more likely to be injured than those with good technique. Good technique protects you from being in a vulnerable position. Of course brings up the question of why do players have poor technique. We can't always answer that. Some of it is coaching but some of it is that some players are not able to master better technique. Those guys get hurt. One could say that Garoppolo was using poor 'technique' by trying to stay in bounds instead of stepping out but that doesn't answer the question of why his ACL tore in an average running situation. Random?

After the past two years, it may just be that Ray Wright is the scapegoat for "random," or the team just feels a need to make a change to send a message they are doing whatever they can to reduce injuries. As was said earlier, if the team drops back to the mean number of injuries, the new guy will get the credit for a mathematical balance having been achieved.

Dj this reminds me of something brot up long ago, way before the WZ , and when the players were just big , beefy guys. Maybe late 70s, and into the 80s (i may be off a bit but this is somewhat close in time), when the big, beefy morphed first slowly, and then more rapidly ...into MASSIVE big BEEFY guys. You all remember. The NFL just woke up one morning and crickey, everybody was HUGE. Remember the FRIDGE. Others too. But no question the league took on a new shape. It became the age of a league which Linemen in particular were all specimens of "the most muscle you could put on a player."

Back in the 70s i remember Mike Munchak, a HOuston Oiler who got so huge and muscled up that he literally grew and developed muscles that were way too big for his joints. Back then(and it could have been the late 60s, IIRC), that was one guy i remember in particular, who once he had developed all this muscle mass , literally had joints (knees) that couldn't support the massive man he had become...and he had multiple knee surgeries not long thereafter. Soon there were others and in time, the league just became HUGE. Now this is a simple explanation, but once coaches saw what kind of huge muscled players could be developed, everyone went to MASSIVE IS BETTER..

And it wasn;t too very long thereafter that the mounting injuries started to stack up. Look at the players in the late 50s. You rarely saw a lineman in the 300- 330 lb range. Now look at the lines , both O and D, of these massive physical specimens. We literally had developed NFL players whose muscled bodies were just way to big and heavy to be supported by their joints...knees, shoulders, ankles, and so on.

So if you want to know where this all started, this was it. Time frame i am a little fuzzy on because it just insidiously crept up on us. But there is no question, injuries were way, way less when our players were no where near the physical specimens they are today. Then you get a RB who is shifty and could cut like a knife, adds 20-30 lbs, and now, he is at much greater risk to tear up a knee with the extra 20-30 lbs he is carrying.

That doesn't help with the problem at hand. But it does point to a former LB playing at 210 lbs who then "grows muscle" up to 240 lbs...now becoming a guy whose knee joints are much , much greater at risk for injury. I don't have any idea what or how we could fix that, but smaller muscled guys at every position would be less apt to become injured, at least, from the knees on down.. Just a thot.

^^^ Now i can't even remotely believe we are going to go back to making our players somewhat smaller men muscle-wise, but it certainly would cut down significantly on the number of knee ligament and cartilage injuries, Achilles and hamstring injuries, pec tears, and so on. The NFL literally has grown men who are bigger than their joints and muscles can support. Just as an example , i can think of half a dozen pec tears in big massive linemen last yr. Pec tears? 30-40 yrs ago, i never even heard of such a thing. So there's one of the major causes responsible for the league wide injury problem. That doesn't do squat, however , in coming up with a solution for the problem. Braces around knees would be a "fix" but not for all by any means, and that is not fixing the problem. But it might help some. Would be nice to see the NFL put some smart guys on this and see what they can come up with. It'll be tough.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by dj43:
The frustrating thing is that injuries are cyclical. They ARE random as Kyle has said. The problem is that the cycle can sometimes be longer thus more frustrating than anyone would like.

It is also true that players with poor technique are more likely to be injured than those with good technique. Good technique protects you from being in a vulnerable position. Of course brings up the question of why do players have poor technique. We can't always answer that. Some of it is coaching but some of it is that some players are not able to master better technique. Those guys get hurt. One could say that Garoppolo was using poor 'technique' by trying to stay in bounds instead of stepping out but that doesn't answer the question of why his ACL tore in an average running situation. Random?

After the past two years, it may just be that Ray Wright is the scapegoat for "random," or the team just feels a need to make a change to send a message they are doing whatever they can to reduce injuries. As was said earlier, if the team drops back to the mean number of injuries, the new guy will get the credit for a mathematical balance having been achieved.

Now this is interesting and some of it falls on the coaches coaching the proper technique. Admittedly I'm not sure at this level how much S&C would have input on proper technique to keep players healthy.

I don't know who said it during one game in the gameday thread that he noticed the 49ers RBs all have "lazy feet" in that at the end of their runs they don't keep picking up their feet causing an inordinate amount of legs being rolled up by the pile and right on cue, Breida gets his legs rolled and comes out. I thought that was an interesting observation and wasn't reminded of it until your comment dj.

Any of you notice something like this? I certainly haven't spent a lot of time watching for this.

Frank Gore developed great technique for finishing a run and at the same time, protecting himself. If you recall, he always went low into a pile. It was like he was trying to fit himself head-first between the knees of defenders. This resulted in an extra yard of two most of the time while also protecting his knees. It isn't by accident he is still a productive pro after suffering major injuries to both knees while still in college.

Shanahan should consider bringing Frank back as assistant RB coach if for no other reason than to teach the guys how to finish runs the way he did.

Frank was also really good at using stadium screens to watch the play and when they caught up to him from behind, he'd go down on his own rather them tackle him. Essentially choosing his own path to the ground. That's not to say he didn't fight for yards because duh, but I agree Franks done a great job of protecting himself.