The Revenge of Robert Saleh

I never knew Saleh worked under Fangio for a season.

https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/127216-transcript-discusses-linebackers-tarvarius-scangarello-practicing-against-broncos/

Did DL Solomon Thomas get a couple sacks on the two interceptions in the red zone that Garoppolo threw in that practice?

"He may have. My eyes were in the backfield, so he may have."

Is this normal? Would a typical DC not know if one of his players had would be sacks? Should Saleh have noticed this while watching film afterwards? Is this why Solly didn't get that many reps last year, because Saleh literally didn't see what he could do?

Not hating, legit asking since I have zero coaching experience.

Originally posted by Heroism:

I never knew Saleh worked under Fangio for a season.

I don't know about that, but I do like the base concept of 3-3-5 defense as a base defense that (I think) either you or somebody else mentioned that Belicheat used against McVay in the Lombardi game.

Heck that *don't hit the WR* penalty by Colbert in the Dallas game, would make me, as a defensive coach, to go all the way to a 2-3-6 defense if the officials keep calling those against the defense instead of letting it go.

As for Saleh's defense. I just like the fact that he's putting faster players like Bosa and Ford on the D Line and they are getting LB's like Warner and Greenlaw - who (In my view) are hybrid Linebacker/Strong Safety types that can cover and big enough to take on the average NFL arby. Fast players against the spread offense - I think - offer the best combination of coverage against the pass and strong enough to slow or stop the run concepts from the 11 man personnel sets. Specially when the refs call those namby pamby *don't hit the wr* penalties.

Originally posted by Heroism:

I never knew Saleh worked under Fangio for a season.

Quality control, right? In typical Fangio fashion, lazer focused and never said a word to him until week 8. LOL. Start'n at the bottom, now I'm here!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Quality control, right? In typical Fangio fashion, lazer focused and never said a word to him until week 8. LOL. Start'n at the bottom, now I'm here!

I remember Siefert vs Fangio during the Bobby Herbert years with Nawleans. I've always felt Fangios defense was more geared to the run, whereas the Seifert defense more geared to the pass. Siefert never really had hall of fame Linebackes like Fangio had. Where Seiferts hall of famers were, was at DB and DLine. I bet Seifert, in this day of the pass happy NFL, his original schemes still kick butt, whereas Fangios schemes have been adjusting to be more like the Seifert defense.

I think the current personnel we have are very comparable to the defenses during the dynasty years, in terms of athleticism and speed. The old Fangio defenses under Harbaugh were more like the New Orleans defenses during the late '80s and '90's. Geared to stop the run, vs to stop the pass.

I liked Saleh's take on Fred and Quinten Rollins. Maybe this guy Rollins has a chance to make the team. Also liked the fact that Fred continues to evolve and get better. That's, I think, looking to be a very solid LB corps. Fred, Kwon and Dre.

What did you see out of CB Quinten Rollins? It seemed like he made a play there?
"Yeah, he made a pass break up. Quinten had a great college career, was a second-round pick, so he's got good history, he's had some injuries to him, but he feels good, feels healthy. And so, it's the same thing, he's got his foot in the door and it's his job to, along with us, to help him, coach him to blow that door open."
Did Fred have a forced fumble there?
"Yeah, Fred started it with a forced fumble. He's starting to get a knack for that so it's pretty cool.
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/127216-transcript-discusses-linebackers-tarvarius-scangarello-practicing-against-broncos/

Originally posted by Giedi:

I liked Saleh's take on Fred and Quinten Rollins. Maybe this guy Rollins has a chance to make the team. Also liked the fact that Fred continues to evolve and get better. That's, I think, looking to be a very solid LB corps. Fred, Kwon and Dre.

What did you see out of CB Quinten Rollins? It seemed like he made a play there?
"Yeah, he made a pass break up. Quinten had a great college career, was a second-round pick, so he's got good history, he's had some injuries to him, but he feels good, feels healthy. And so, it's the same thing, he's got his foot in the door and it's his job to, along with us, to help him, coach him to blow that door open."
Did Fred have a forced fumble there?
"Yeah, Fred started it with a forced fumble. He's starting to get a knack for that so it's pretty cool.
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/127216-transcript-discusses-linebackers-tarvarius-scangarello-practicing-against-broncos/

Then why not bring in players like this early instead of wasting an entire off season on weak ass players like Mabin and Johnson when you know damn well they won't be making the team?

What exactly was the end-goal with that strategy?

Same concept with Ward. Thankfully we found Moore but Ward occupies a roster spot that could have gone towards someone who could have been developed over time and provided real depth/competition/upside.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I liked Saleh's take on Fred and Quinten Rollins. Maybe this guy Rollins has a chance to make the team. Also liked the fact that Fred continues to evolve and get better. That's, I think, looking to be a very solid LB corps. Fred, Kwon and Dre.

What did you see out of CB Quinten Rollins? It seemed like he made a play there?
"Yeah, he made a pass break up. Quinten had a great college career, was a second-round pick, so he's got good history, he's had some injuries to him, but he feels good, feels healthy. And so, it's the same thing, he's got his foot in the door and it's his job to, along with us, to help him, coach him to blow that door open."
Did Fred have a forced fumble there?
"Yeah, Fred started it with a forced fumble. He's starting to get a knack for that so it's pretty cool.
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/127216-transcript-discusses-linebackers-tarvarius-scangarello-practicing-against-broncos/

Then why not bring in players like this early instead of wasting an entire off season on weak ass players like Mabin and Johnson when you know damn well they won't be making the team?

What exactly was the end-goal with that strategy?

Same concept with Ward. Thankfully we found Moore but Ward occupies a roster spot that could have gone towards someone who could have been developed over time and provided real depth/competition/upside.

There could be some politics involved. In other words Woods is the new DB coach and it could have been a while before he got a bit more power to bring in players or make decisions on players. Who knows. But Woods and Kocureck were brought in for a reason, and my own take on that is that Saleh's wasn't getting the job done last year. They let Hafley and Zgonina go - and I'm betting Hafley and Zgonina were Saleh's guys and Woods and Kocureck were more Kyle's guys. So my read is that basically Woods had to appeal to Kyle and maybe Kyle basically overrode Saleh and Woods was finally able to bring his type of guys in. Who knows.

Originally posted by Giedi:
There could be some politics involved. In other words Woods is the new DB coach and it could have been a while before he got a bit more power to bring in players or make decisions on players. Who knows. But Woods and Kocureck were brought in for a reason, and my own take on that is that Saleh's wasn't getting the job done last year. They let Hafley and Zgonina go - and I'm betting Hafley and Zgonina were Saleh's guys and Woods and Kocureck were more Kyle's guys. So my read is that basically Woods had to appeal to Kyle and maybe Kyle basically overrode Saleh and Woods was finally able to bring his type of guys in. Who knows.

Not sure I agree. Keep in mind when Kyle was hired and who was available for Saleh to hire for his staff when he was named DC. The coaching pool was tiny. Hafley is also a holdover from the dumbass Jim O'Neil. I know Kyle and Saleh are firm believers in continuity for their players' sakes. But Kocurek and Woods became available this offseason, and Niners jumped on it. I really don't think it's any deeper than that.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by Giedi:

There could be some politics involved. In other words Woods is the new DB coach and it could have been a while before he got a bit more power to bring in players or make decisions on players. Who knows. But Woods and Kocureck were brought in for a reason, and my own take on that is that Saleh's wasn't getting the job done last year. They let Hafley and Zgonina go - and I'm betting Hafley and Zgonina were Saleh's guys and Woods and Kocureck were more Kyle's guys. So my read is that basically Woods had to appeal to Kyle and maybe Kyle basically overrode Saleh and Woods was finally able to bring his type of guys in. Who knows.

Not sure I agree. Keep in mind when Kyle was hired and who was available for Saleh to hire for his staff when he was named DC. The coaching pool was tiny. Hafley is also a holdover from the dumbass Jim O'Neil. I know Kyle and Saleh are firm believers in continuity for their players' sakes. But Kocurek and Woods became available this offseason, and Niners jumped on it. I really don't think it's any deeper than that.

I tend to agree with Hero here in that as everyone knows, the cabinets were bare when kyle got around to hiring his DC. A newbie vs a lousy retread was fine by me. Also, if you look into the character of Saleh, you will find a really fine , hardworking , trusty gentleman. I referred to his writeup for Peter Cheater several times in the past, as to why Saleh would make a good LB coach for Carroll (or whatever...quality control, IDK). So there was that. Quality human being. But when things went sideways in yr 2, altho Saleh did accomplish what kyle asked of him, "stop the damn runs up the gut"....but oddly kyle didn't change out any position coaches, Zgonnia and Hafley to name 2. In retrospect, and certainly at the time.... if kyle kept Saleh, then he really needed to schidcan DL and DB asst coaches.

It's no news ...that diidn't happen. Thinking back on. It, i suppose it just wasnt' all that critical for kyle last yr,, so he let it ride. He had an entire team to build and not spending time on DL and DB coaches...? It just wasn't a priority compared to putting together a 45 man team. So he let it slide. Now? That was a huge 1 entire yr mistake, and nobody would argue that. Those two jokers were just plain bad...as were our DBs and DEs.

But kyle didn't say much because those accursed runs up the gut stopped. It was something like 4.8 yds/carry in 2017 and 3.1 or so in 2018. And that ugly sore of runs up the gut just stopped. If anyone remembers anything about our D in yr 1 it was those horrid , awful 4.8 yds/carry...right up the gut. So Saleh did his job and kyle got his wish.

About that time everyone else's attention was fixated on the DBs trailing the WRs and never looking back. Good Lord it was ugly, awful and just as unwatchable as the gut runs HAD been.. Also we gave opposing QBs all nite and day to throw the ball. A lot of that was on total lack of talent, but as we all saw, Tavarius was put at CB where he was awful instead of his position, S. Now look at him. But could our DBs have played better? Yep. They sure could have. It was also apparent that Saleh just handed off to Hafley who was a zero. When we were on D, you could count of every pass being completed, or our famous PI defense.. Not sure which was worse to have to watch. Seemed every 3rd down they moved the chains.

Could our DB coach have been better? Hell yeah. But still there was a talent deficit on the D and DBs were awful. Coaching tho, was way, way worse.
On the DL, again it looked like saleh just handed it over to our DL coach, who was a dud. Man we sure had some serious interior DTs, but zero DEs. But there were no changes made no improvement , no fakery, no nada. Just a non functioning DL. Oh, and one of the best LBs to come along in a long time, Reuben the terrible, played lites out. Unfortunately there was another side to him which was worse than ugly. We not only wasted a pick on him we blew another to move up to get him.(which i would have done also, BTW). But he screwed us with his behavior. Not to mention screwing himself....the beater deal...that was tough on coaches and teammates alike ...the way it finally came down in a Miami hotel. Thank God he is gone.

So put it all together and we had a big goose egg D. But just changing out two guys, Z and Hafley has made a huge difference. The talent is not much different at DBs, but it sure is at DL.

Do i wish those two guys would have been changed out after yr 1, if Saleh was to stay on? Yes....but they are gone now and DL is revitalized and DBs look promising.. Also. Sherm is playing on two legs now,

One of our most wanted DC selections who was busy then, now has his own team. Did JL or kyle see that coming? Maybe. But perhaps with the addition of Kocurek and Woods, both excellent in their coaching positions, Saleh will now look like a real DC, and not just a LB coach. At least i hope. If he does well, the job is his for the long term. And being new at it, that could be quite a spell. Kyle as a newly minted coach , JL as new GM...and the vast deficit of talent all around...well one can see why DL and DB inadequate coaches were overlooked. But just once tho. Not this yr. They gone.

Now...now we just have to hope that our DEs heal up, and same goes for Kwon. If he stays healthy those crummy completions across the middle STOP. So, as for progress there has been plenty. I hope K and Woods are as good as i have seen them in previous stops. We are damn lucky to have gotten them both. IDK, but bet JL had a big part to play in that. Our 2s beat Dallas's. 2s plus played their 1s even. It is just a little thing, but it sure portends good....hopefully great things to come. The D may not be completely fixed... but we just took some giant strides forward.

Now, if we can just do something with that OL...

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I tend to agree with Hero here in that as everyone knows, the cabinets were bare when kyle got around to hiring his DC. A newbie vs a lousy retread was fine by me. Also, if you look into the character of Saleh, you will find a really fine , hardworking , trusty gentleman. I referred to his writeup for Peter Cheater several times in the past, as to why Saleh would make a good LB coach for Carroll (or whatever...quality control, IDK). So there was that. Quality human being. But when things went sideways in yr 2, altho Saleh did accomplish what kyle asked of him, "stop the damn runs up the gut"....but oddly kyle didn't change out any position coaches, Zgonnia and Hafley to name 2. In retrospect, and certainly at the time.... if kyle kept Saleh, then he really needed to schidcan DL and DB asst coaches.

It's no news ...that diidn't happen. Thinking back on. It, i suppose it just wasnt' all that critical for kyle last yr,, so he let it ride. He had an entire team to build and not spending time on DL and DB coaches...? It just wasn't a priority compared to putting together a 45 man team. So he let it slide. Now? That was a huge 1 entire yr mistake, and nobody would argue that. Those two jokers were just plain bad...as were our DBs and DEs.

But kyle didn't say much because those accursed runs up the gut stopped. It was something like 4.8 yds/carry in 2017 and 3.1 or so in 2018. And that ugly sore of runs up the gut just stopped. If anyone remembers anything about our D in yr 1 it was those horrid , awful 4.8 yds/carry...right up the gut. So Saleh did his job and kyle got his wish.

About that time everyone else's attention was fixated on the DBs trailing the WRs and never looking back. Good Lord it was ugly, awful and just as unwatchable as the gut runs HAD been.. Also we gave opposing QBs all nite and day to throw the ball. A lot of that was on total lack of talent, but as we all saw, Tavarius was put at CB where he was awful instead of his position, S. Now look at him. But could our DBs have played better? Yep. They sure could have. It was also apparent that Saleh just handed off to Hafley who was a zero. When we were on D, you could count of every pass being completed, or our famous PI defense.. Not sure which was worse to have to watch. Seemed every 3rd down they moved the chains.

Could our DB coach have been better? Hell yeah. But still there was a talent deficit on the D and DBs were awful. Coaching tho, was way, way worse.
On the DL, again it looked like saleh just handed it over to our DL coach, who was a dud. Man we sure had some serious interior DTs, but zero DEs. But there were no changes made no improvement , no fakery, no nada. Just a non functioning DL. Oh, and one of the best LBs to come along in a long time, Reuben the terrible, played lites out. Unfortunately there was another side to him which was worse than ugly. We not only wasted a pick on him we blew another to move up to get him.(which i would have done also, BTW). But he screwed us with his behavior. Not to mention screwing himself....the beater deal...that was tough on coaches and teammates alike ...the way it finally came down in a Miami hotel. Thank God he is gone.

So put it all together and we had a big goose egg D. But just changing out two guys, Z and Hafley has made a huge difference. The talent is not much different at DBs, but it sure is at DL.

Do i wish those two guys would have been changed out after yr 1, if Saleh was to stay on? Yes....but they are gone now and DL is revitalized and DBs look promising.. Also. Sherm is playing on two legs now,

One of our most wanted DC selections who was busy then, now has his own team. Did JL or kyle see that coming? Maybe. But perhaps with the addition of Kocurek and Woods, both excellent in their coaching positions, Saleh will now look like a real DC, and not just a LB coach. At least i hope. If he does well, the job is his for the long term. And being new at it, that could be quite a spell. Kyle as a newly minted coach , JL as new GM...and the vast deficit of talent all around...well one can see why DL and DB inadequate coaches were overlooked. But just once tho. Not this yr. They gone.

Now...now we just have to hope that our DEs heal up, and same goes for Kwon. If he stays healthy those crummy completions across the middle STOP. So, as for progress there has been plenty. I hope K and Woods are as good as i have seen them in previous stops. We are damn lucky to have gotten them both. IDK, but bet JL had a big part to play in that. Our 2s beat Dallas's. 2s plus played their 1s even. It is just a little thing, but it sure portends good....hopefully great things to come. The D may not be completely fixed... but we just took some giant strides forward.

Now, if we can just do something with that OL...

Well I agree that Kyle's hiring at such a late date handicapped his search for quality assistant coaches. Either way, whether because ShanaLynch jumped at getting some talented coaches, or that Saleh was forced to relinquish some authority -- the defense has improved. I still remember that ShanaLynch tried getting Ken Norton to be the LB coach, and he was already (I think) a DC with was it the Raiders? Anyway, based on those moves, clearly ShanaLynch saw a coaching deficit on the defensive side, and I think made the coaching moves they made to fix it. Now, can he do the same for the OLine coaching?

Originally posted by John_Candy:
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/127216-transcript-discusses-linebackers-tarvarius-scangarello-practicing-against-broncos/

Did DL Solomon Thomas get a couple sacks on the two interceptions in the red zone that Garoppolo threw in that practice?

"He may have. My eyes were in the backfield, so he may have."

Is this normal? Would a typical DC not know if one of his players had would be sacks? Should Saleh have noticed this while watching film afterwards? Is this why Solly didn't get that many reps last year, because Saleh literally didn't see what he could do?

Not hating, legit asking since I have zero coaching experience.

That bald SOB doesn't even wear a wig, yet he still can't notice who gets a TD?!!

Originally posted by LVJay:

Originally posted by John_Candy:
https://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/127216-transcript-discusses-linebackers-tarvarius-scangarello-practicing-against-broncos/

Did DL Solomon Thomas get a couple sacks on the two interceptions in the red zone that Garoppolo threw in that practice?

"He may have. My eyes were in the backfield, so he may have."

Is this normal? Would a typical DC not know if one of his players had would be sacks? Should Saleh have noticed this while watching film afterwards? Is this why Solly didn't get that many reps last year, because Saleh literally didn't see what he could do?

Not hating, legit asking since I have zero coaching experience.

That bald SOB doesn't even wear a wig, yet he still can't notice who gets a TD?!!

Last year Solomon lost his sister and best friend, I think Solomon didn't do much to be noticed in practice or in games. This year, with counseling, he looks new and improved. We shall see, but I think last year was - unfortunately - an injury year for him, just like Jimmy (but on the mind side) not the body.

Right now, we're all "potential" -- going to be really interesting to see if things materialize how we hope.

It was embarrassing listening to Tessitore & McFarland butcher his name during the telecast. And yes he has some hairy ass arms.