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Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Originally posted by TonyStarks:
These close games need to stop tho. How does Jimmy Put up 48 yet the Saints get to put up 46?
Great defenses arent great every game. Same for great offenses.
Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:Originally posted by LifelongNiner:Originally posted by TheWooLick:Originally posted by Giedi:Originally posted by TheWooLick:Originally posted by Giedi:Originally posted by okdkid:Elite DC!!!!
Simply one of the very best in the NFL. No use debating that. He has every data point on his side.
Meh, Dee Ford can even make Jim Mora Jr. elite.
Dee Ford's team ranking for total defense:
2019: 2nd - Saleh
2018: 31st
2017: 28th
2016: 21st
haters gonna hate
With Bosa and Ford, Saleh's defense went from worst to first. Same with Dean and Haley. These are impact players that Saleh has. He won't have them on another team. As for Dee Ford and his 31st rank - dunno what that stat that you put up means, but his last team was in the playoffs when he was there. Dee goes to this team and whalla, we're in the playoffs.
This is 100% false.
49ers Total Defense Ranks:
2016: 32
2017: 24
2018: 13
2019: 2
You said that Dee ford makes the the defense rank 2nd. He didn't make his previous team's defense rank that high.
One of the misconceptions about our 2018 team is that it was a bad defense. Overall, it wasn't and there were some huge arguments on how yardage rankings were a meaningless stat. I totally disagree with that. Yards tells you something just as much much as points given up does. In my opinion the yardage totals were low because we either would generally hold teams or our offense would give other teams a short field because they would turn the ball over and other teams would score with that short field. The other issue is we would be doing fine and then inexplicably would give up a huge play (poor communication) as if we had 11 Akhello Witherpoon's on defense. I'd rate that stuff along with getting true edge rushers in Ford and Bosa as what made our defense one of the best in the league.
You're absolutely right, yardage is a terrible stat to rank a defense off of. The two best areas in ranking defenses are sacks and turnovers. Pretty sure we were worst in the league in takeaways last year. And if we weren't dead last in sacks, we were close. That is not a misconception.
Originally posted by evil:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by evil:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by evil:Originally posted by NCommand:Originally posted by evil:What is to say Saleh didn't want a better teacher on the back end so he use more diversified coverages and better disguise those coverages ? We do know we struggled mightily the first 2 years with communication on the back end of the D under Hafley.
Not saying it is the case but to dismiss that this was Saleh's call is a large assumption. It comes across like you think Saleh's ability is strictly in a C3 tunnel. Seattle may run a cover 3 but Pete does diversify, including using cover 2 which he credits to learning from Monte Kiffin. So Saleh certainly learned a lot more than C3 under Pete.
Strong praise from Sherm (from October of this year) and he doesn't need to go so far as to call Saleh a genius when praising him. Just like Kyle has never wavered on moving on from Saleh after year one and two. Maybe just maybe Saleh is a little better than a lot of guys here truly believe.
LOL. Given Saleh didn't even seem to really know much about them or their specific roles upon hire, that might be a hint. He actually thought W9 would be a wrinkle.
IMHO, I think both were brought in by Kyle to help Saleh expand upon the foundation of C3 given how the holes were exposed last year. Smart.
And to Saleh's credit, he ran with it and it's worked very well.
Are you sure?
What does hire of new defensive line coach mean for 49ers?
A week ago the Raiders hired Kris Kocurek as defensive line coach to replace Jeff Zgonina. Kocurek coached the Dolphins' defensive linemen in 2018.
Asked whether the move signifies a philosophical change for the defensive line, Saleh deflected.
"Like Kyle (Shanahan) said, there was no plan to make any changes on the staff and then Kris became available," Saleh said. "He's very well thought of. It really wasn't a knock on Z. I think Z did a really, really nice job but just an opportunity to get a guy who was very experienced but yeah, it was just one of those things."
"Philosophically, there's not gonna be a drastic change. It's just a guy who is very well thought of. Z did a tremendous job the last two years, what he took over. The room that he took over two years ago was not very good, both character wise and technically. So much appreciated for what he's done in the last two years. You guys know it's pretty hard to always let people go, so much appreciated for Z and what he's been able to do."
Saleh got to know Kocurek throughout the years "just talking ball" since they crossed over in coaching circles. Kocurek spent his first nine NFL seasons coaching on the Lions' defensive staff, and Saleh said Kocurek had a place three blocks from his parents' house in Detroit.
How does Saleh feel about the Joe Woods hire?
After defensive backs coach Jeff Hafley took the co-defensive coordinator job at Ohio State, the 49ers hired Joe Woods, who served as the Broncos' defensive coordinator in 2017 and 2018.
In 2017, the Broncos finished tied for 22nd in the NFL with 23.9 points allowed per game. In 2018, Denver finished 13th with 21.8 yards allowed per game. And after Broncos head coach Vance Joseph lost his job, so too did Woods.
Woods assumes the title of defensive backs coach/passing game coordinator with the 49ers, who set an NFL record for fewest interceptions in a season in 2018 with only two.
"Really, really excited to have Joe. I don't know if people realize that Joe is actually a disciple of the whole cover 2 tree. Came highly recommended from Monte (Kiffin) and Gus Bradley, who I think the world of obviously. They're my mentors. He is a believer in fundamentals, technique over scheme. That's something that Hafley did a great job of and we wanted to make sure we had great continuity in that regard.
"He comes from our school of thinking with regards to our system and it's gonna be seamless with the way he teaches and the things that he believes in … I'm really excited with what we're doing. I think it's gonna be a really cool working dynamic."
Yes, I'm sure...with this comment alone. I consulted an actual player who played within Kocurek's W9 and he said outright, it would be a full time schematic change...not the little wrinkle Saleh thought. In fact, it's pretty opposite to the scheme Saleh was versed in with Big Ends and 5T and S-NICKEL too. And that's certainly held true all season. Saleh runs a C3.
So you think Saleh brought in Kocurek and Woods on his own?
Not on his own, I think it came from a post season sit down with Kyle about how to improve the defense.
Saleh was versed in C3 in Seattle and Jacksonville but also in other fronts and coverages during his career as a coach and on those stops. Gus Bradley coached under Monte Kiffin like Carroll did, and Monte was a Tampa 2 and Cover 2 guy who also did some Cover 3 stuff and that was used in Seattle and Jacksonville.
Saleh also coached under Frank Bush and Richard Smith who ran more traditional 4-3 but with some Cover 2 as well. I don't think Saleh should be exclusively pigeon holed as only being versed in Cover 3.
When and where did Saleh say it would only be a wrinkle?
To the bold, same here. And to his credit, he made the most of it and ran with it. I think he wasn't sure how to philisophically make it work right away though. It probably didn't go down like, "OK, we're going to target X, Y and Z...to accomplish A, B and C."
I think Kocurek and Woods happen to be out there and they brought them in and figured they'd figure it out as they go.
There was a podium interview and he was saying the W9 was a wrinkle they already used so it wasn't a big deal and he didn't anticipate anything different. He didn't seem to realize it was a full philosophical switch to 100% of the time and the C2 also became far more regular as well off his C3. He was literally just starting year 3...hard to expand at that point in your career/installation esp. philisophically.
I give him credit for being open to mold his own philosophy with theirs. I give Kyle credit for expanding the defense and believing Saleh could make it work.
Like a physician, if you're trained within a certain medical model, that's how you see the world; through that model going forward. That's why there's always been a disconnect with holistic diagnosis in Western Medicine...see symptom A, prescribe treatment B.
Saleh did it.
The wide 9 philosophy is fast, aggressive and physical. Literally meshes perfectly with Saleh's philosophical approach on D, the all gas no brakes mantra : fast, physical, violent and attacking.
What changed was from a schematic standpoint in appearance and assignments.
Originally posted by TheWooLick:2nd best defense in the NFL, headed to the NFC Championship thanks to the defense and still people hating on Saleh so they don't have to admit they were wrong.
Go Niners, disappoint the haters by dominating GB again.
Originally posted by NCommand:
You're so defensive of your boy. Literally, nobody is "hating on him."
Originally posted by CatchMaster80:Originally posted by NCommand:You're so defensive of your boy. Literally, nobody is "hating on him."
It's part of posting on this forum. Any constructive criticism or observations are viewed as being a hater. Nothing could be further from the truth. Most fans that say 'negative things' are actually die hard fans that just want this team to be the best in every area.
Originally posted by Ensatsu:Joe Woods leaving doesn't sound so good. I don't have confidence in this secondary if he takes the Browns job. Moseley has been vastly over performing my expectations, maybe in large part due to him
Originally posted by NCommand:
W9 was a wrinkle Saleh used in nickel with the Karate Kid mostly; basically predictable 3rd down rushing. It was never meant to be used in base, let alone, every down like it is now. Saleh is all about big personnel (learned from his time in Jacksonville with big ends)...so much so he carried 100 different 5T's and used "stout" personnel (basically run defending personnel) even in his nickel...so much so that Hero tabbed it S-Nickel (Stout-Nickle). As a result, our big personnel was great at shutting down the run and the big lumbering personnel got lots of slow QB pressures but very few sacks and consequently, it meant historic lows in T.O.'s on the back end. Philisophically, predominantly W9 is polar opposite. Saleh is 100% about stopping the run first and foremost. All gas no brakes doesn't apply when you have all big personnel. Now, with 9T's, 2i's and 3T's, all are shooting gaps and playing in the backfield.
Adding C2 as much as it's been run this year to a C3 is also counter to his upbringing.
This defense, including how the personnel has been used, is vastly different from the first two years.
Originally posted by libertyforever:Saleh's defense has always been mostly 1 gap, shoot the gaps and playing in the backfield. In addition, the team has been emphasizing the pass defense over run defense by getting speedy stack linebackers who can cover since 2017. All gas no brakes apply all the way back.
