1st Team All Pro - OW, Kyle "Juice" Juszczyk

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, where did that narrative come from anyways?

Me thinks, in an effort to not appear to be a "homer" some are going a million clicks in the other direction.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, where did that narrative come from anyways?

I think cuz we havent scored yet and hat fble looked bad

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
S**t with the way Hoyer has been playing don't know about that, we may be calling for beathard much before our bye

Since when has Hoyer been playing awful? He looked alright. Yeah he had a really stupid turnover with the ball slipping out of his hand but otherwise he's been fine in terms of accuracy and ball placement. Even Greg Cosell talked about him looking good in this offense. When you consider that he's just your stopgap quarterback, you could certainly do worse.

Yeah, other than that crazy turnover I don't see how Hoyer has been awful as people are describing.

Same here. Besides that turnover, he played fine. I don't see a 4000 yard passer but he will play a hell of a lot better that gabbert and kap.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:

S**t with the way Hoyer has been playing don't know about that, we may be calling for beathard much before our bye

Since when has Hoyer been playing awful? He looked alright. Yeah he had a really stupid turnover with the ball slipping out of his hand but otherwise he's been fine in terms of accuracy and ball placement. Even Greg Cosell talked about him looking good in this offense. When you consider that he's just your stopgap quarterback, you could certainly do worse.

Yeah, other than that crazy turnover I don't see how Hoyer has been awful as people are describing.

Yeah, where did that narrative come from anyways?

Theres a few too many with the guilty till proven innocent approach and dont like it when theyre high then eventually have those certain moments when they come down cause football isnt perfect and those players "fooled" them.

IMO Hoyer has already LOOKED above average. But guys wanna see more before labeling him anything.
Thats fair but lets on s**t in him cause the percentages right now say he wont be good to great cause of his past.

Above average to good+ isnt bad either.

My first thoughts of him were please be better than 2011/2012 Alex Smith.

Safe to say as much as Alex is still my boy Hoyer is easily the better pocket passer.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:

That play is a perfect usage for Juice. Heavy playaction, look deep, nothing there, check it down. Juice gets in a good "lead block", and the LB assigned to Juice was behind in coverage the whole way.

He's gonna play a huge role on that shanny WCO PA deep cross play. That play always has a Post route coupled with either a deep cross or a deep IN from the other side. It also contains the FB on i form type formation going to the flat.

I love to post a picture of the play art, buy tiny pics is down and my photobucket acct is acting up. Anyways on mike Shanahan's version of this type of play it treats it as a half field read and the primary between the post and deep cross is determined on presnap converage read. The FB to the flat is the secondary. I wonder if Kyle treats he like this as well.

It did look like a 2 route concept similar to what you described. Juice was clearly the checkdown. One thing I have not seen is Juice as the 3rd down back which he was in BAL.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:

That play is a perfect usage for Juice. Heavy playaction, look deep, nothing there, check it down. Juice gets in a good "lead block", and the LB assigned to Juice was behind in coverage the whole way.

He's gonna play a huge role on that shanny WCO PA deep cross play. That play always has a Post route coupled with either a deep cross or a deep IN from the other side. It also contains the FB on i form type formation going to the flat.

I love to post a picture of the play art, buy tiny pics is down and my photobucket acct is acting up. Anyways on mike Shanahan's version of this type of play it treats it as a half field read and the primary between the post and deep cross is determined on presnap converage read. The FB to the flat is the secondary. I wonder if Kyle treats he like this as well.

It did look like a 2 route concept similar to what you described. Juice was clearly the checkdown. One thing I have not seen is Juice as the 3rd down back which he was in BAL.

Hmmm.. Interesting .

Could see it come regular season on 3rd and shorts.

Vance/Kittle as the lead blocker

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:

That play is a perfect usage for Juice. Heavy playaction, look deep, nothing there, check it down. Juice gets in a good "lead block", and the LB assigned to Juice was behind in coverage the whole way.

He's gonna play a huge role on that shanny WCO PA deep cross play. That play always has a Post route coupled with either a deep cross or a deep IN from the other side. It also contains the FB on i form type formation going to the flat.

I love to post a picture of the play art, buy tiny pics is down and my photobucket acct is acting up. Anyways on mike Shanahan's version of this type of play it treats it as a half field read and the primary between the post and deep cross is determined on presnap converage read. The FB to the flat is the secondary. I wonder if Kyle treats he like this as well.

It did look like a 2 route concept similar to what you described. Juice was clearly the checkdown. One thing I have not seen is Juice as the 3rd down back which he was in BAL.

Please tell me y'all spotted the "spider 2 y banana" call?!? My wife couldn't figure out why o was yelling it out during the game, haha

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Please tell me y'all spotted the "spider 2 y banana" call?!? My wife couldn't figure out why o was yelling it out during the game, haha

We have a FB again! Which play are you talking about? Not the catch and run with Juice right?

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Please tell me y'all spotted the "spider 2 y banana" call?!? My wife couldn't figure out why o was yelling it out during the game, haha

We have a FB again! Which play are you talking about? Not the catch and run with Juice right?

Youre gonna like this..actually wins and might make the catch if Hoyer doesn't stumble.

I want Juice to line up at TE when not at FB. In other words, he should never leave the field!

Originally posted by 49ers808:

I want Juice to line up at TE when not at FB. In other words, he should never leave the field!

Better hands than vance

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Please tell me y'all spotted the "spider 2 y banana" call?!? My wife couldn't figure out why o was yelling it out during the game, haha

We have a FB again! Which play are you talking about? Not the catch and run with Juice right?

I'd like to see a 2 TE set with a FB ,RB and 1 WR

with Juice, Kittles and McDonald , we could run the ball with power and pass the ball out of that set also, being Juice and Kittles can get involved in the passing game out of that set as well

Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
I'd like to see a 2 TE set with a FB ,RB and 1 WR

with Juice, Kittles and McDonald , we could run the ball with power and pass the ball out of that set also, being Juice and Kittles can get involved in the passing game out of that set as well

I can definitely see this happening. Kyle's 2016 offense was near the top of the league in 3TE usage, and it was a very even distribution of run/pass. He also used a lot of 2 back sets, also near the top of the league at 21 personnel usage. With Juice, Kyle can trot out 22 personnel then use Juice as a FB/TE hybrid to switch between 22 (2rb/2te) and 13 (1rb/3te).

https://www.theringer.com/2017/6/2/16037836/nfl-offensive-strategy-going-big-a8e0ae117091
Using tight ends and fullbacks also allows offenses to create mismatches, some of which may seem counterintuitive at first glance. Those varied advantages are why, as defenses get uniformly fast, the league's smartest offenses are countering by getting big.

...Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz did his best to explain why heavier packages can be a pain to game plan against. "If you don't know exactly what you're doing on defense, 13 personnel can wear your ass out," Schwartz said, referring to offensive sets that feature one back and three tight ends. It's not about the complexity of the play concepts, he explained. The issue comes from simple core designs that are cloaked in unfamiliar formations. "Guys don't practice those gap controls very much," he said, "so I'd say probably, from a preparation standpoint, 22 and 13 are probably the most difficult things because you don't see very much of it."

By calling for typical run formations on typical run downs (the above play is a first-and-10), Shanahan was able to pick up easy gains through formation alone, to say nothing of the talent advantage Atlanta's pass catchers may have had. His approach will almost certainly be similar in San Francisco, and now, in Juszczyk, he'll have an ideal candidate to get the most out of some of those plays.
---------------------------
https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/6/3/15733106/robert-mays-article-49ers-kyle-shanahan-juszczyk
Part of what makes Shanahan's offense powerful is how unpredictable it is. Most teams use 13 personnel only as their jumbo package to pick up a yard or two for a first down or TD. But Shanny actually passed out of it more than he ran last year (41 to 36 plays).

Originally posted by thl408:

I can definitely see this happening. Kyle's 2016 offense was near the top of the league in 3TE usage, and it was a very even distribution of run/pass. He also used a lot of 2 back sets, also near the top of the league at 21 personnel usage. Kyle can trot out 22 personnel then use Juice as a FB/TE hybrid to switch between 22 (2rb/2te) and 13 (1rb/3te).

https://www.theringer.com/2017/6/2/16037836/nfl-offensive-strategy-going-big-a8e0ae117091
Using tight ends and fullbacks also allows offenses to create mismatches, some of which may seem counterintuitive at first glance. Those varied advantages are why, as defenses get uniformly fast, the league's smartest offenses are countering by getting big.

...Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz did his best to explain why heavier packages can be a pain to game plan against. "If you don't know exactly what you're doing on defense, 13 personnel can wear your ass out," Schwartz said, referring to offensive sets that feature one back and three tight ends. It's not about the complexity of the play concepts, he explained. The issue comes from simple core designs that are cloaked in unfamiliar formations. "Guys don't practice those gap controls very much," he said, "so I'd say probably, from a preparation standpoint, 22 and 13 are probably the most difficult things because you don't see very much of it."

By calling for typical run formations on typical run downs (the above play is a first-and-10), Shanahan was able to pick up easy gains through formation alone, to say nothing of the talent advantage Atlanta's pass catchers may have had. His approach will almost certainly be similar in San Francisco, and now, in Juszczyk, he'll have an ideal candidate to get the most out of some of those plays.
.....
https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/6/3/15733106/robert-mays-article-49ers-kyle-shanahan-juszczyk
Part of what makes Shanahan's offense powerful is how unpredictable it is. Most teams use 13 personnel only as their jumbo package to pick up a yard or two for a first down or TD. But Shanny actually passed out of it more than he ran last year (41 to 36 plays).

The bold is what I think makes him an OW as opposed to just being a traditional FB. Along with being able to bounce between 22 and 13 you can also bounce between 21 and 12 real easy when you can have a guy that can occupy the FB, H-back and TE position. I want to see what mad scientist stuff Kyle comes up with.