1st Team All Pro - OW, Kyle "Juice" Juszczyk

Originally posted by thl408:

I can definitely see this happening. Kyle's 2016 offense was near the top of the league in 3TE usage, and it was a very even distribution of run/pass. He also used a lot of 2 back sets, also near the top of the league at 21 personnel usage. With Juice, Kyle can trot out 22 personnel then use Juice as a FB/TE hybrid to switch between 22 (2rb/2te) and 13 (1rb/3te).

https://www.theringer.com/2017/6/2/16037836/nfl-offensive-strategy-going-big-a8e0ae117091
Using tight ends and fullbacks also allows offenses to create mismatches, some of which may seem counterintuitive at first glance. Those varied advantages are why, as defenses get uniformly fast, the league's smartest offenses are countering by getting big.

...Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz did his best to explain why heavier packages can be a pain to game plan against. "If you don't know exactly what you're doing on defense, 13 personnel can wear your ass out," Schwartz said, referring to offensive sets that feature one back and three tight ends. It's not about the complexity of the play concepts, he explained. The issue comes from simple core designs that are cloaked in unfamiliar formations. "Guys don't practice those gap controls very much," he said, "so I'd say probably, from a preparation standpoint, 22 and 13 are probably the most difficult things because you don't see very much of it."

By calling for typical run formations on typical run downs (the above play is a first-and-10), Shanahan was able to pick up easy gains through formation alone, to say nothing of the talent advantage Atlanta's pass catchers may have had. His approach will almost certainly be similar in San Francisco, and now, in Juszczyk, he'll have an ideal candidate to get the most out of some of those plays.
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https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/6/3/15733106/robert-mays-article-49ers-kyle-shanahan-juszczyk
Part of what makes Shanahan's offense powerful is how unpredictable it is. Most teams use 13 personnel only as their jumbo package to pick up a yard or two for a first down or TD. But Shanny actually passed out of it more than he ran last year (41 to 36 plays).

Just reading this article it's shocking to me that the highest % of what we used to call base personnel (21) was ran by Buffalo at just 29%. Seriously, I'd be willing to bet at our heyday we where in base 60-65% of the time....hence the name base. That's just a shocking number to me.

Originally posted by Niners816:
The bold is what I think makes him an OW as opposed to just being a traditional FB. Along with being able to bounce between 22 and 13 you can also bounce between 21 and 12 real easy when you can have a guy that can occupy the FB, H-back and TE position. I want to see what mad scientist stuff Kyle comes up with.

Kyle is all about mismatches so having Juice, some good TEs, and fast WRs will allow him to gameplan and attack defenses at their weakness. In 2016, OAK got praise on local radio for playing a bunch of 3TE sets against DEN to keep DEN in base defense, which kept their awesome nickel defense on the bench. But it was Kyle in ATL who did this first since ATL played DEN before OAK did. That was the game where Coleman gashed DEN for several long catches as ATL played a bunch of 2 back sets.

That game speaks to what Jim Schwartz mentioned in his clinic. If we go back to what Bill Walsh did with his WCO. He attacked LBs in pass coverage because those 80's LBs were built for stopping the run. Nowadays, LBs and defenses in general, are geared to stop the pass. Nickel is played 70% of the time. Pure run stopping LBs and old school strong safeties are getting phased out. Pass rushers are the most sought after position on defense. Now the pendulum swings back to heavier offensive personnel to attack these defenders that have become tailored to stop the passing game.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Please tell me y'all spotted the "spider 2 y banana" call?!? My wife couldn't figure out why o was yelling it out during the game, haha

We have a FB again! Which play are you talking about? Not the catch and run with Juice right?

No it was a different play, IIRC. I believe we threw the "venus" LOL, jk, I don't remember much because I think I blacked out for joy, lol

Originally posted by thl408:

Kyle is all about mismatches so having Juice, some good TEs, and fast WRs will allow him to gameplan and attack defenses at their weakness. In 2016, OAK got praise on local radio for playing a bunch of 3TE sets against DEN to keep DEN in base defense, which kept their awesome nickel defense on the bench. But it was Kyle in ATL who did this first since ATL played DEN before OAK did. That was the game where Coleman gashed DEN for several long catches as ATL played a bunch of 2 back sets.

That game speaks to what Jim Schwartz mentioned in his clinic. If we go back to what Bill Walsh did with his WCO. He attacked LBs in pass coverage because those 80's LBs were built for stopping the run. Nowadays, LBs and defenses in general, are geared to stop the pass. Nickel is played 70% of the time. Pure run stopping LBs and old school strong safeties are getting phased out. Pass rushers are the most sought after position on defense. Now the pendulum swings back to heavier offensive personnel to attack these defenders that have become tailored to stop the passing game.

Yep. Before you were gashing the slowest guys on defense with speed and quickness, now as defenses are gearing up to stop the pass and becoming more finesse oriented, you maul them with power.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

No it was a different play, IIRC. I believe we threw the "venus" LOL, jk, I don't remember much because I think I blacked out for joy, lol

"What are you doing Luck?!?....you never throw the VENUS on spider Y banana...."

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by thl408:
Kyle is all about mismatches so having Juice, some good TEs, and fast WRs will allow him to gameplan and attack defenses at their weakness. In 2016, OAK got praise on local radio for playing a bunch of 3TE sets against DEN to keep DEN in base defense, which kept their awesome nickel defense on the bench. But it was Kyle in ATL who did this first since ATL played DEN before OAK did. That was the game where Coleman gashed DEN for several long catches as ATL played a bunch of 2 back sets.

That game speaks to what Jim Schwartz mentioned in his clinic. If we go back to what Bill Walsh did with his WCO. He attacked LBs in pass coverage because those 80's LBs were built for stopping the run. Nowadays, LBs and defenses in general, are geared to stop the pass. Nickel is played 70% of the time. Pure run stopping LBs and old school strong safeties are getting phased out. Pass rushers are the most sought after position on defense. Now the pendulum swings back to heavier offensive personnel to attack these defenders that have become tailored to stop the passing game.

Yep. Before you were gashing the slowest guys on defense with speed and quickness, now as defenses are gearing up to stop the pass and becoming more finesse oriented, you maul them with power.

Wait....wasn't HaRoman getting hammered for doing this years ago? People started to hate all those massive beaf sets with DT's and OT's out there playing FB and TE???

I said it then and I'll say it again, I thought he was on to something with being seeing where the pass oriented NFL was going that we would see a trend back towards massive power football to take advantage of all the pass D stuff.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
No it was a different play, IIRC. I believe we threw the "venus" LOL, jk, I don't remember much because I think I blacked out for joy, lol

"What are you doing Luck?!?....you never throw the VENUS on spider Y banana...."

I'm so glad you caught that...LOL.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
Youre gonna like this..actually wins and might make the catch if Hoyer doesn't stumble.

A comeback route to the fullback split out wide?!! Com'onnnn now!

Fullback awesomeness. @JuiceCheck44 pic.twitter.com/XxadYIN8tT

— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) August 21, 2017

This really is crazy. He spun the defender around, and Hoyer was actually looking to hit Juice on the route. What fullback runs a deep comeback? Speaking of mad scientist ideas, this is one right here.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Wait....wasn't HaRoman getting hammered for doing this years ago? People started to hate all those massive beaf sets with DT's and OT's out there playing FB and TE???

I said it then and I'll say it again, I thought he was on to something with being seeing where the pass oriented NFL was going that we would see a trend back towards massive power football to take advantage of all the pass D stuff.

I've always thought Roman caught way more s**t then he deserved. The nonsense about him flex FB and that being bad will never make sense to me. Roman wasn't a superstar coordinator but he wasn't the piece of trash some try to paint him as.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Wait....wasn't HaRoman getting hammered for doing this years ago? People started to hate all those massive beaf sets with DT's and OT's out there playing FB and TE???

I said it then and I'll say it again, I thought he was on to something with being seeing where the pass oriented NFL was going that we would see a trend back towards massive power football to take advantage of all the pass D stuff.

I've always thought Roman caught way more s**t then he deserved. The nonsense about him flex FB and that being bad will never make sense to me. Roman wasn't a superstar coordinator but he wasn't the piece of trash some try to paint him as.

I remember he had some pretty good play design but the execution would be sloppy/bad timing on play calls

Originally posted by Niners816:
Just reading this article it's shocking to me that the highest % of what we used to call base personnel (21) was ran by Buffalo at just 29%. Seriously, I'd be willing to bet at our heyday we where in base 60-65% of the time....hence the name base. That's just a shocking number to me.

It's as if teams will go with a 2RB/2TE set on 1st down, then on 2nd down it's back to 3WRs. "Base" is no longer the norm. This is what the league wanted by the rule changes to help the passing game. So it makes sense for defenses to spend practice time and draft capital to defend the pass. So it makes sense for offenses to bolster their run game and stay out of situations that the defense practices for.

TEN does some really cool things and we'll get to see them late this season. I've watched snippets of their offense and it reminds me of Roman's run game in formation, heavy personnel, and mix of power/zone concepts.

Here's Jim Schwartz talking about 13 personnel and how it gives defenses problems:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Wait....wasn't HaRoman getting hammered for doing this years ago? People started to hate all those massive beaf sets with DT's and OT's out there playing FB and TE???

I said it then and I'll say it again, I thought he was on to something with being seeing where the pass oriented NFL was going that we would see a trend back towards massive power football to take advantage of all the pass D stuff.

I've always thought Roman caught way more s**t then he deserved. The nonsense about him flex FB and that being bad will never make sense to me. Roman wasn't a superstar coordinator but he wasn't the piece of trash some try to paint him as.

Yeah, I thought going against the grain was very smart. Granted it helped when we already had the personnel too and that happened to be what we did best and Our HC is Bo S. 2.0...Gore, Miller, Staley, Iupati, Davis, extra jumbo lineman, big blocking TE's, etc.

3 yards and a cloud of dust...plus an extra yard from Gore.

I bet you'll never guess what we'll do on first down! Haha

Miller isn't juice though he wasnt bad.

Chicken Little... err, I mean Grant Cohn tweeted Juice is wearing a blue non-contact jersey. Oh no, hit the panic button every time you see the slightest thing Grant.

Originally posted by ninerjok:
Chicken Little... err, I mean Grant Cohn tweeted Juice is wearing a blue non-contact jersey. Oh no, hit the panic button every time you see the slightest thing Grant.

LOL

I'm just dying to hear more about Grant's take on Kyle's leadership skills through 2 preseason games.