1st Team All Pro - OW, Kyle "Juice" Juszczyk

It is a pittance that means nothing in the grand scheme of the team's salary cap. Non issue.

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
It is a pittance that means nothing in the grand scheme of the team's salary cap. Non issue.

with a rolling cap, it does mean something. Perhaps not a huge deal, but it's not nothing. When combined with other bad contracts, it's becoming a pattern of poor decisions and overspending.

Originally posted by OsBoogie:
I agree, it was a bad contract but it helped getting us going. Hopefully, we get out of the bad contract and either get him for cheaper or replace him with the weapons we have been adding.

+1

The real contract to watch out for is the next FB contract whether it's Juice or someone else (hopefully Juice, I like him).

And while I get the percentage portion is often a more accurate indicator than the outright number, IMO it's less applicable when you factor in how much his overall cap expenditure was; $5MM APY versus say $2.5MM APY is not as big a deal as potentially $15MM APY versus $7.5. I mean, seriously are we gonna pretend there's any NFL GM that would pay Aaron Donald $32MM a year or Russell Wilson $60MM a year?

Also I feel it does matter that the 49ers are a team with generous cap space the entirety of the ShanaLynch era.

If the 49ers finally have the good season we've been waiting for, I'm pretty sure all of the future FA contracts will be nice and tight where they should be. The overpaying of Garcon and Malcolm Smith I can sympathize with other Niner fans as being poor contracts in hindsight, whereas with Juice it's different.

As much as the article points out these stats that Juice's presence on the field did little versus being off the field, I think it's better to think of intangibles and consider how unique the Shanahan offense is -- the positions that are unique, and the value they play overall. Clearly in a 21 personnel offense where the FB is considered essential, it's cool to have the best in the league (esp. at receiving). TE is also important, and with Kittle you're top 3 in the league if not already best.

At some point in the future if an elite C becomes available in FA, I wouldn't mind the FO overpaying for him.

The rest of the offense is treated with less reverence at the other typically more glamorous positions - WR, HB. The mantra with Kyle isn't necessarily get the best of the best at each spot (X, Y, Z), but make sure the X, Y, and Z are what they need to be, at least above average. This may seem obvious, but Kyle would have been annoyed OCing some of the Harbaugh WR groups we had after losing Moss and Manningham (and also Walker). It appears the 49ers are closer to their WR ideal now more than they've been in a long time.

Lastly, I forget our FB during the Garrison Hearst days, but for the WCO prime we saw under Walsh & Seifert, you have Craig, Rathman, and Floyd.......ballers certainly.

Let's respect the tradition.

Originally posted by NineFourNiner:
It is a pittance that means nothing in the grand scheme of the team's salary cap. Non issue.

This

Especially "Non-Issue"

Juice been durable, but who's the backup?

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Juice been durable, but who's the backup?

When Juice missed a few games mid-2017, it was Kittle that lined up in the backfield as a lead blocker when that was what the play needed (rare). But nearly all the rest of the time, when Kyle wanted the base defense to stay on the field, he used 2TEs inline (12 personnel). I'm looking at the 2017 WAS/DAL games. So there is no real backup for Juice. It'd be nice if the 3rd TE was an H back type of player - not quite as tall as a TE so he can be an effective lead blocker out of I formations.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Juice been durable, but who's the backup?

When Juice missed a few games mid-2017, it was Kittle that lined up in the backfield as a lead blocker when that was what the play needed (rare). But nearly all the rest of the time, when Kyle wanted the base defense to stay on the field, he used 2TEs inline (12 personnel). I'm looking at the 2017 WAS/DAL games. So there is no real backup for Juice. It'd be nice if the 3rd TE was an H back type of player - not quite as tall as a TE so he can be an effective lead blocker out of I formations.

TE Tyree Mayfield. Your post seems to reinforced what I thought Mayfield can be. Backing up Juice.

Originally posted by OsBoogie:

with a rolling cap, it does mean something. Perhaps not a huge deal, but it's not nothing. When combined with other bad contracts, it's becoming a pattern of poor decisions and overspending.

This is complete nonsense. What other bad contracts? Garoppolo? Not many other people think that is a bad contract. Claiming a pattern of poor decisions and overspending based on one contract is ridiculous. Shanahan wanted him and, at the time, we had to overpay to attract good players. If your comment about overspending had any value we would now be bumping our heads on the salary cap. Check out where we actually are.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by OsBoogie:

with a rolling cap, it does mean something. Perhaps not a huge deal, but it's not nothing. When combined with other bad contracts, it's becoming a pattern of poor decisions and overspending.

This is complete nonsense. What other bad contracts? Garoppolo? Not many other people think that is a bad contract. Claiming a pattern of poor decisions and overspending based on one contract is ridiculous. Shanahan wanted him and, at the time, we had to overpay to attract good players. If your comment about overspending had any value we would now be bumping our heads on the salary cap. Check out where we actually are.

Some fans wish the reality is what they think it is. Paraag has done very well with contracts. Got our FQB paid, pass rusher paid, MLB paid, even our Lt is locked up another couple years. One guy, DeFo, needs to be paid. Top 5 in available cap space while people act like were bottom 5 because they dont understand NFL contracts. That's all without getting into how guaranteed money is getting front loaded to provide future flexibility.

Originally posted by English:
This is complete nonsense. What other bad contracts? Garoppolo? Not many other people think that is a bad contract. Claiming a pattern of poor decisions and overspending based on one contract is ridiculous. Shanahan wanted him and, at the time, we had to overpay to attract good players. If your comment about overspending had any value we would now be bumping our heads on the salary cap. Check out where we actually are.

overpaying Malcolm Smith? Overpaying McKinnon? And even if it only ends up a 1 year deal, a huge pay day for Kwon?

I'd say that's enough for a pattern.

Originally posted by walker807:
Some fans wish the reality is what they think it is. Paraag has done very well with contracts. Got our FQB paid, pass rusher paid, MLB paid, even our Lt is locked up another couple years. One guy, DeFo, needs to be paid. Top 5 in available cap space while people act like were bottom 5 because they dont understand NFL contracts. That's all without getting into how guaranteed money is getting front loaded to provide future flexibility.

Paraag is great at his job. He makes it easy to cut our losses after a year or tow usually. However, the decision to spend that much on players generally comes down to Shanalynch. We certainly have overpaid for those guys.

Originally posted by OsBoogie:

Originally posted by English:
This is complete nonsense. What other bad contracts? Garoppolo? Not many other people think that is a bad contract. Claiming a pattern of poor decisions and overspending based on one contract is ridiculous. Shanahan wanted him and, at the time, we had to overpay to attract good players. If your comment about overspending had any value we would now be bumping our heads on the salary cap. Check out where we actually are.

overpaying Malcolm Smith? Overpaying McKinnon? And even if it only ends up a 1 year deal, a huge pay day for Kwon?

I'd say that's enough for a pattern.

Jimmy Ward

I would say Garcon, Mckinnon, Juice, and Smith were all bad contracts. Juice a good player but no need to pay him so much. Mckinnon just hasn't shown anything to deserve that payday. And Malcolm Smith was and still is garbage. Plenty of ppl said who cares how much they over pay Garcon and Smith they know the system they will make guys better. Who have they made better?

Originally posted by OsBoogie:

Originally posted by walker807:

Some fans wish the reality is what they think it is. Paraag has done very well with contracts. Got our FQB paid, pass rusher paid, MLB paid, even our Lt is locked up another couple years. One guy, DeFo, needs to be paid. Top 5 in available cap space while people act like were bottom 5 because they dont understand NFL contracts. That's all without getting into how guaranteed money is getting front loaded to provide future flexibility.

Paraag is great at his job. He makes it easy to cut our losses after a year or tow usually. However, the decision to spend that much on players generally comes down to Shanalynch. We certainly have overpaid for those guys.

Overpaying nfl players is done by 32 teams in the league. It's worse for teams in high COL, high tax locations because teams like the 49ers need to offer more for the player to take home the same amount as they would playing for Miami. At the end of the day not one of those guys that's overpaid is preventing the 49ers from making moves or handicapping the cap in the future.

Originally posted by walker807:
Overpaying nfl players is done by 32 teams in the league. It's worse for teams in high COL, high tax locations because teams like the 49ers need to offer more for the player to take home the same amount as they would playing for Miami. At the end of the day not one of those guys that's overpaid is preventing the 49ers from making moves or handicapping the cap in the future.

again, due to rolling cap, that money spent on Malcolm, Juice, and Jet could pay for a lot