1st Team All Pro - OW, Kyle "Juice" Juszczyk

Originally posted by lamontb:

I would say Garcon, Mckinnon, Juice, and Smith were all bad contracts. Juice a good player but no need to pay him so much. Mckinnon just hasn't shown anything to deserve that payday. And Malcolm Smith was and still is garbage. Plenty of ppl said who cares how much they over pay Garcon and Smith they know the system they will make guys better. Who have they made better?

It's a bad thing, but not the type f bad thing that has bitten them yet. If things pan out, they won't have to spend much in FA next year. We won't know if it works out until next year. Also Garcon looked pretty damn good in 2017. If he produced at the same level in 2018, it's definitely not a bad contract. He got hurt and fell off a cliff. And for the record, everyone overpays in free agency unless you wait until everything dies down and sign whoever is leftover. This overpaying for free agents isn't exclusive to the 49ers.

Originally posted by OsBoogie:

Originally posted by walker807:

Overpaying nfl players is done by 32 teams in the league. It's worse for teams in high COL, high tax locations because teams like the 49ers need to offer more for the player to take home the same amount as they would playing for Miami. At the end of the day not one of those guys that's overpaid is preventing the 49ers from making moves or handicapping the cap in the future.

again, due to rolling cap, that money spent on Malcolm, Juice, and Jet could pay for a lot

Like a crystal ball to predict who will get injured and who won't.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Like a crystal ball to predict who will get injured and who won't.

like overpaying a position by a landslide
by overpaying a LB coming off an awful season in OAK
like overpaying a RB who's never carried the load as a top 3 RB (when Coleman's contract this season shows it was way over market value)
like overpaying a LB coming off an ACL and making him our 4th highest paid player
like overpaying an old slow WR well over market value

Juice is a baller, plain and simple. The article writes about how he gets nearly twice as much as any FB, but he's probably twice as good as them as well. No one does what Juice can do, when you couple that with the fact that Kyle wants his skills for his offense it's a no brainer.

Pay him whatever he wants, because at the end of the day Robbie Gould would get a similar deal if he signed one. It's pittance

Originally posted by OsBoogie:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Like a crystal ball to predict who will get injured and who won't.

like overpaying a position by a landslide
by overpaying a LB coming off an awful season in OAK
like overpaying a RB who's never carried the load as a top 3 RB (when Coleman's contract this season shows it was way over market value)
like overpaying a LB coming off an ACL and making him our 4th highest paid player
like overpaying an old slow WR well over market value

A landslide is 2.5 million??? What an enormous impact. Please tell me what team doesn't overpay with situations just like yours listed above. No GM has a crystal ball and you've written guys like Jet off before they have even had an opportunity to touch the ball. You have no idea what there market value is any more than I do. We dont get the luxury of seeing every offer these guys get. Have you also not noticed the theme of "omg we overpayed", and then a bunch of other guys get way more guaranteed money resetting the market.

Originally posted by OsBoogie:

Originally posted by English:

This is complete nonsense. What other bad contracts? Garoppolo? Not many other people think that is a bad contract. Claiming a pattern of poor decisions and overspending based on one contract is ridiculous. Shanahan wanted him and, at the time, we had to overpay to attract good players. If your comment about overspending had any value we would now be bumping our heads on the salary cap. Check out where we actually are.

overpaying Malcolm Smith? Overpaying McKinnon? And even if it only ends up a 1 year deal, a huge pay day for Kwon?

I'd say that's enough for a pattern.

But you havent checked out the salsry cap position, have you? A huge pay day for Kwon for a year doesnt make any difference. The salary cap situation is being well handled.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by OsBoogie:

Originally posted by English:

This is complete nonsense. What other bad contracts? Garoppolo? Not many other people think that is a bad contract. Claiming a pattern of poor decisions and overspending based on one contract is ridiculous. Shanahan wanted him and, at the time, we had to overpay to attract good players. If your comment about overspending had any value we would now be bumping our heads on the salary cap. Check out where we actually are.

overpaying Malcolm Smith? Overpaying McKinnon? And even if it only ends up a 1 year deal, a huge pay day for Kwon?

I'd say that's enough for a pattern.

But you havent checked out the salsry cap position, have you? A huge pay day for Kwon for a year doesnt make any difference. The salary cap situation is being well handled.

Exactly. As long as our cap is healthy, who cares. If they are worth it, great, if not we cut our loses. The only person who loses here is Jed, and im not losing any sleep over that.

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by OsBoogie:

Originally posted by English:

This is complete nonsense. What other bad contracts? Garoppolo? Not many other people think that is a bad contract. Claiming a pattern of poor decisions and overspending based on one contract is ridiculous. Shanahan wanted him and, at the time, we had to overpay to attract good players. If your comment about overspending had any value we would now be bumping our heads on the salary cap. Check out where we actually are.

overpaying Malcolm Smith? Overpaying McKinnon? And even if it only ends up a 1 year deal, a huge pay day for Kwon?

I'd say that's enough for a pattern.

But you havent checked out the salsry cap position, have you? A huge pay day for Kwon for a year doesnt make any difference. The salary cap situation is being well handled.

Exactly. As long as our cap is healthy, who cares. If they are worth it, great, if not we cut our loses. The only person who loses here is Jed, and im not losing any sleep over that.

Right, the day we let guys like Buck walk we can worry about salary cap, but it hasn't happened yet, and paying a great FB 5.3 a year doesn't move the needle.

You'd think the cash was coming out our pockets judging by some of the responses.

Getting the right players to fit Kyle's WCO--who might not otherwise be inclined to join a loser team--is the point.

The goal isn't to be the Bean Counter Champions of the World.

We have a chance to win now. That's better than being penny wise but pound foolish.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Right, the day we let guys like Buck walk we can worry about salary cap, but it hasn't happened yet, and paying a great FB 5.3 a year doesn't move the needle.

You'd think the cash was coming out our pockets judging by some of the responses.

I am trying to imagine how wide open this guy is going to be with all the other weapons on offense. He's going to be like the 10th concern of every DC in the league.

Originally posted by Bluesbro:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Right, the day we let guys like Buck walk we can worry about salary cap, but it hasn't happened yet, and paying a great FB 5.3 a year doesn't move the needle.

You'd think the cash was coming out our pockets judging by some of the responses.

I am trying to imagine how wide open this guy is going to be with all the other weapons on offense. He's going to be like the 10th concern of every DC in the league.

.... and why would defenses make him any concern over that?? a FB is the easiest one to allow to be free..

he's good, but OVER PAID...

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Juice is a baller, plain and simple. The article writes about how he gets nearly twice as much as any FB, but he's probably twice as good as them as well. No one does what Juice can do, when you couple that with the fact that Kyle wants his skills for his offense it's a no brainer.

Pay him whatever he wants, because at the end of the day Robbie Gould would get a similar deal if he signed one. It's pittance

Ditto!

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
Exactly. As long as our cap is healthy, who cares. If they are worth it, great, if not we cut our loses. The only person who loses here is Jed, and im not losing any sleep over that.

Good post

Originally posted by OsBoogie:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
Like a crystal ball to predict who will get injured and who won't.

like overpaying a position by a landslide
by overpaying a LB coming off an awful season in OAK
like overpaying a RB who's never carried the load as a top 3 RB (when Coleman's contract this season shows it was way over market value)
like overpaying a LB coming off an ACL and making him our 4th highest paid player
like overpaying an old slow WR well over market value

1. It's fullback. Not QB. Not DE. Not any type of big money position. You tried to use the 2.5 times the value thing with QB, but if there were some type of trend here, shouldn't they have given Jimmy G a contract that would make an NBA player take notice?

2. Generally overpay in FA. They wanted a guy that knew the scheme. It's the reason Garcon and Hoyer were brought in. Once they were no longer useful, what happened?

3. No argument from me on this one. Even with the overpaying in FA thing, I really don't think they had to go that high. But it's interesting that you mention the McKinnon contract as being way over market value, but do you give that same front office for signing Coleman to such a cheap deal?

4. Is this 1970? 1980? Do players not recover from ACLs?

5. Did you call Garcon old and slow in 2017, year 1 of his deal, or is this a hindsight assessment?

Whatever we paid him, it was worth it. He could have been used way more on pass routes, but there are just so many O plays and only 1 football. He got way underused this yr due to the multiple other targets.

Now, wait until this yr...with Hurd and Deebo, and Jet showing up, plus Pettis healed (hopefully) . Guys are going to wonder why we use Au jus so little. Answer is the same...1 football, 10 targets.

The beauty of Au Jus is tho, that he can line up as WR, RB, TE...and play all 3 slots. So even if he doestn' get the ball, he is still a threat and has to be covered. In the end...he will earn his money, JUst not wth a lot of receptions. And the guy can flat out BLOCK.