1st Team All Pro - TE George Kittle Thread

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
We can agree to disagree. Allen also had better overall surrounding personnel, played in a weaker division and conference.

Moving on from Allen...
Point was Vance has value, me and NY are in the party of this is the best situation,position and system he's been in thus far and we'd like to see what we can do before trading for something less than 3rd/4th. We're also in the party of being intrigued of a 2 TE base package of Vance and Kittle.

For those in the party he's hit his ceiling of production and want him gone...fine, but you can't deny it's smarter to build his value up some by showcasing him to get max value in return.

This...people are full of s**t if they honestly don't think Vance would be better with a true offensive system and real QB throwing him the ball. Put him in Pitt or NE and he'll be more productive without question. Why not play him this yr and try and trade him? Allen had 400 yards this yr as the main man in Indy and they got a 4th for him with his sizable contract.

Think people, think.

The hate for AA, Vance and Hyde is unreal in NT. "Thinking" objectively clearly isn't a factor here for some.

It really surprises me. Tons of upside for all three yet disdained by a significant portion of the team's fans.

Week 1 starter BOOK IT!!!

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Sounds like he's having a good camp...two TDs today

Vance and Kittle have a chance to become a very nice 2-TE combo. Both can block, both got wheels and can go deep.
I think Shanny is gonna take a page out of BBs book due to a mediocre WR core.

that's not a bad idea. I Like it! The weakness of the 4-3 under is covering the TE position. Link. The problem we've had facing Seadderall is the fact that we really didn't have quality tight ends. If Kittle can be a good pass catcher and Vance develops into a good pass catcher, we'll own Cheat Carroll's 4-3 under.

Under Front Weaknesses:
Limited Coverages to a nub tight end
Weakside A gap provides good angles
Weakside safety can be manipulated with twins/slot looks
Tight end trade
Fullback motioning to a wing position next to the tight end

I get what you saying about increasing his value for trade bait. But you don't take away reps from guys you feel are better just to do that. You just cut bait and let him move on. You don't say let's play Vance this series so other teams can see him on tape and his trade value becomes better. Then Vance drops a TD pass that guys you clearly think are better players might have caught if they were in the game. That's just dumb. He hasn't been in the best of systems but he also hasn't made the most out of the opportunities he has had.

And of course if he played in a better system he would be more productive but that doesn't make him a better player. Just makes him Dallas Clark.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

We can agree to disagree. Allen also had better overall surrounding personnel, played in a weaker division and conference.

Moving on from Allen...
Point was Vance has value, me and NY are in the party of this is the best situation,position and system he's been in thus far and we'd like to see what we can do before trading for something less than 3rd/4th. We're also in the party of being intrigued of a 2 TE base package of Vance and Kittle.

For those in the party he's hit his ceiling of production and want him gone...fine, but you can't deny it's smarter to build his value up some by showcasing him to get max value in return.

It would be a bad idea to keep him over a better player, just to build his value. He's played in the NFL for four seasons and has had ample time to establish his value, which, after the draft trade talk, we can assume is next to nothing.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Nope, even if he was "splitting" time with fleener he still received more targets than Vance ever did. Kinda hard to make plays when you don't get your name called, especially his first two yrs in the league. Indy also had cud as their OC the past couple yrs who's all about passing the ball to the TEs.

Indy has also been in the top end of the league in pass attempts since he's been there, SF has been at the bottom. Allen has also been injury prone as well, plus had playmakers around him to actually help him get open...Vance as not.

Allen might be a little better but not much better at all...just saying.

Hard to get your number called when you catch the ball like you're wearing hulk hands.

Getting back on track, seems there's a lot of buzz for Kittle right now and he could be our #1 TE in short order. Very exciting to have a rookie show up like that!

Originally posted by kush:
Getting back on track, seems there's a lot of buzz for Kittle right now and he could be our #1 TE in short order. Very exciting to have a rookie show up like that!

This!

Originally posted by Nuns:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

We can agree to disagree. Allen also had better overall surrounding personnel, played in a weaker division and conference.

Moving on from Allen...
Point was Vance has value, me and NY are in the party of this is the best situation,position and system he's been in thus far and we'd like to see what we can do before trading for something less than 3rd/4th. We're also in the party of being intrigued of a 2 TE base package of Vance and Kittle.

For those in the party he's hit his ceiling of production and want him gone...fine, but you can't deny it's smarter to build his value up some by showcasing him to get max value in return.

This...people are full of s**t if they honestly don't think Vance would be better with a true offensive system and real QB throwing him the ball. Put him in Pitt or NE and he'll be more productive without question. Why not play him this yr and try and trade him? Allen had 400 yards this yr as the main man in Indy and they got a 4th for him with his sizable contract.

Think people, think.

The hate for AA, Vance and Hyde is unreal in NT. "Thinking" objectively clearly isn't a factor here for some.

It really surprises me. Tons of upside for all three yet disdained by a significant portion of the team's fans.

Given the low utilization, underutilization and low snap counts for a variety of reasons, I can understand being skeptical but damn...it's a bit odd.

Originally posted by kush:

Hard to get your number called when you catch the ball like you're wearing hulk hands.

It's all about reps...getting the ball thrown his way more and he's making less drops, weird how that works.

He was also top 20 among the most efficient red-zone threats in 2015

http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/63733/446/dominant-red-zone-receivers?pg=1

I like kittle and hope he turns into a stud...but to say Vance is on the outside looking in based on our current competition is stupid imo.

Originally posted by kush:

It would be a bad idea to keep him over a better player, just to build his value. He's played in the NFL for four seasons and has had ample time to establish his value, which, after the draft trade talk, we can assume is next to nothing.

Who's a better player though? Celek/Logan/bell or an UDFA who can't block to save his life?? How about we get some real competition before you actually say keep him over a "better player" lol

Originally posted by NCommand:

The hate for AA, Vance and Hyde is unreal in NT. "Thinking" objectively clearly isn't a factor here for some.

It's a broken record in here...if they don't ball out in a yr or two then throw them in the trash.

Hell Davis didn't do anything until his 4th yr, how many people were done with him before that. We live in a instant gratification age now, people have no patience and love the unknown...I mean I know nothing about this player so he HAS to be better, right lol?

Originally posted by Tru2RedNGold25:
Week 1 starter BOOK IT!!!

Kittle was a draft crush of mine, that said he's too raw to be a full time starter right off the bat. I'm sure he'll get plenty of action 2/3 TE sets, people get really excited over a few catches in red zone drills lol

I been on the side of wanting to see what Vance could do with a better qb and offense . But if others prove to be better then there's no reason to keep him. He's been put on IR 2/4 of his years playing. He could get hurt again then we get stuck paying that big contract in 2018 instead of just dumping it this year.

7 mil or so that could be used on a quality player if we're not totally convinced that Vance is the man.

The dead horse to beat with vance is his injuries. Classic Baalke player that is best in a backup role because "when healthy looks like they might develop into a solid player".