The Iron-Pyrite-Lining Thread (Negative people come on in!)

this thread is way more interesting than the silver-lining LUL

Originally posted by paulk205:
It was a legit post about my fears on the team.

Oh, and I forgot to mention again our genius coach had the greatest choke job in the history of the SB, and the second worst in the history of the playoffs only after Houston's collapse vs Buffalo. And that our great hope for redemption is that an overrated former teacher's pet in the NFL's second most dysfunctional franchise will choose the NFL's most dysfunctional franchise next offseason as the source for his exorbitant contract who will cripple their cap space for years. Woo-hoo! I feel full of hope.

BTW, why iron-pyrite (a rather pretty if common compound)? Surely it should be coal which is opposed to treasure.

Originally posted by paulk205:

BTW, why iron-pyrite (a rather pretty if common compound)? Surely it should be coal which is opposed to treasure.

Compress it enough and line up those carbon atoms, and you get diamonds.

Really, I don't see the value in all this doom and gloom.

When no results of anything Lynch and Shanahan have done are yet visible, it seems to me they should be given the benefit of the doubt. When you actually see they're stepping on their d*#^s, have at them. Then it has a shot of being fair. To attack them on your made up "ifs" is clearly not.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
Any realistic, objective person KNOWS for certain these guys aren't ever going to hoist a trophy. They won't (unless you get a defense like the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Buccs, 2013 Seahawks). So a realistic person takes the unknown (Trubisky, Rosen, Josh Allen maybe, etc).

How can any realistic and objective person know for certain the outcome of future events ?

Even Ozzie Newsome drafted Kyle Boller. My track record on QBs is f***ing phenomenal. I got like 4 or 5 wrong and like 40 right.

So even Ozzie couldn't predict the outcome of future events ? And we are to believe you can based off of your claimed track record ? Cool story.

The plan is to rebuild the foundation of this team, beginning to create a new culture here and leave no stone unturned in the search for the QBOTF. Obviously they did not see that QB in the early round picks within this class but did take a mid round guy they saw some potential in. That guy may or may not be the franchise guy, but they also have never claimed him to be or claimed they were putting all their chips in his basket either. You don't just take over a team and automatically find your QBOTF in that first offseason. If you do, then good for you but so many new regimes have taken longer than that to find their guy. Finding a franchise QB is a tall task for anyone and everyone working in the league.

And just because your personal opinions on Trubs seems to differ from the FO's does not make you right. It also does not mean they have no plan. You seemingly have chosen not to separate your opinion from objectively looking at what Kyle and John are currently doing, or (correct me if I am wrong) at least that is how I am perceiving your posts.

Originally posted by thl408:
f**k Jed's broken toy

Originally posted by paulk205:

Originally posted by paulk205:

It was a legit post about my fears on the team.

Oh, and I forgot to mention again our genius coach had the greatest choke job in the history of the SB, and the second worst in the history of the playoffs only after Houston's collapse vs Buffalo. And that our great hope for redemption is that an overrated former teacher's pet in the NFL's second most dysfunctional franchise will choose the NFL's most dysfunctional franchise next offseason as the source for his exorbitant contract who will cripple their cap space for years. Woo-hoo! I feel full of hope.

Yet that "choke-artist" was one of the main reasons why they were in the SB and had a chance to win it....I'm sure that ATL D giving up 570 yards, pats allowing only 2.6 ypc in the 2nd half, the holding penalty, or freeman totally whiffing on a block had nothing to do with the outcome of that game. Takes a whole team to win and lose.

Also the biggest choke job in SB history was the Seattle game

Please explain what it is about Kirk that you don't like? Is it the avg comp% of 68.4, avg 4,500 yards, is it the 63 total TDs vs 23 ints, or the 5th and 7th overall QB rating in his first two yrs as a starter? Or the fact that he had the 21st and 28th ranked run game and defense last yr to help him out?

Here's a nice little article explaining in depth about kirk's 2016 season

http://www.espn980.com/2017/01/27/the-truth-about-kirk-cousins-2016-season/

Also who said kyle is throwing in all his chips on Kirk? The media mainly...I got no problem drafting a QB, but bringing in someone that does know Kyle's complex system and someone that he believes in is huge. It also helps with bringing in FAs. Throw in we most likely have a top 5 pick which can be moved to a team that needs a QB and we can get a f**k load for it based on the QB class...think like the titans we could build the OL, get a pass rusher, and a WR with all those picks on top of the extra ones lynch got us....cheap rookie contracts.

We're gonna have over $80 million in cap space and who to spend it on? There's not much worth spending on currently for this team and FA is a crap shoot. He makes $25 million SF is STILL in the top end of the league in cap space.

I really don't see the issue at all

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Yet that "choke-artist" was one of the main reasons why they were in the SB and had a chance to win it....I'm sure that ATL D giving up 570 yards, pats allowing only 2.6 ypc in the 2nd half, the holding penalty, or freeman totally whiffing on a block had nothing to do with the outcome of that game. Takes a whole team to win and lose.

Sure, but it does help to try to play keepball a little, especially when it's obvious that your defence is gassed. Even colossal Boston homers like Bill Simmons agreed that the only way the comeback could have happened is for Atlanta's bizarre insistence to refuse to run the clock out (in general, not just when in FG range). We can dress it up any way we want, say that it's the HC's and not the OC's responsibility, that they got there by being aggressive, yadda^3, but for me it walks like a choke and quacks like a choke. Either way, the team choked, and our genius coach was associated, and was arguably instrumental, in this failure.

I have to stress here that these are fears, not convictions. The whole of the forum is full of kool-aid threads, just like every other sports fan forum is before training camp. Everybody starts at 0-0. All rookies are potential stars, all FAs the best possible fits, new coaching regimes will turn things round (especially if they have bona fide "geniuses", or "whisperers", or "experts"). It's great. That's why we keep coming back. I also watch stupid videos with players in shorts making great TC plays, just as I am ecstatic at every Spring Training home run, or every time the new vaunted Arsenal signing (another painful story, right there) scores a wondergoal against Shanghai Select XI in mid-July. But this is the FeS2 Thread and where the rose tinted glasses should come off. This is where fears should be expressed. They are not any more "rational" than all the delusional hopes that every break will fall right, and every rookie will pan out, and nobody will get injured, and noone ever calls the wrong play, ever. They're emotions, not reason. But they're as legitimate, and as likely, as those emotions found in the silver, golden, or cubic zirconia lining threads.

As for Cousins. Bully for the man, a lower rounder who has made good, and outperformed expectations (not to mention his ridiculously hyped co-draftee who BTW was partly ruined by our genius as part of the wider Genius Trust then running Washington). I like the man, and the "you like that?" moment should fill with hope every one of us who has felt like an underdog in life. I think he has proved himself as eminently serviceable. He's certainly more proven than Matt Cassel Mk2 over in Boston (or should I say Elvis Grbac MkII?), who will make a packet for making 4-5 good starts with an all time great team. But to wait for him like the second coming of [insert favourite redeemer, religious or secular] is a bit thick. He may prove great. He may prove awful. He almost certainly will prove "all right". And he will definitely prove expensive. Which brings me to: you don't just spend cap space because you have it. By all means spend some on FA, heck, even Cousins if he's the best out there and you think it will work out. But he will not be a guaranteed success, and worrying about spending the sorts of cash that are being thrown around as possible deals when the team sucks on every level and in every position, well, it makes me a little uncomfortable.

BTW, I hope that all those Trubisky comments are not meant for me. I was (and am) a Thomas fanboi in this draft, and change colours and get spots when I think of the entirely unproven QB class of this year's draft. Even Grbac/Cassel Jr would have been better than any of them.

Originally posted by paulk205:
It was a legit post about my fears on the team. I am an optimist by nature (honest!) and like everyone else before the season starts I fantasise about all the breaks coming our way and we outperform expectations. Sometimes it works (e.g. 2011). More often it doesn't (e.g. 2007). To give you another example about another of my teams, the Phillies (I am not a 9ers fan from the Bay Area, in fact I am European and lived in Philly a few years in the 90s, including the almost magical '93 season). Anyway, everyone knows that the team is in heavy rebuilding mode, that it all depends on prospects panning out in the minors and getting promoted quickly, that this season was a writeoff but we'd like to see progress. I hoped that our uninspired FA signings would work out, that our prospects would progress and that the team would, against expectations, improve to play .500 ball and so attract big name FA next offseason by a narrative of a young core and improvement. I hoped that the baseball version of The Process would work out, and that against all signs our FO and manager would prove to be hidden geniuses. Well, the FAs have been a disaster (one DL'ed for the season, another DFA'ed a month before the break, a third going in and out of the DL all year); the prospects have regressed; and the team is on target for losing 110 this year. Ouch.

So, to bring it back to the Niners. I fear the worst. I do. Our starting QB has a past missing major chunks of seasons and, though very serviceable (he's no Gabbert) he's not exactly lights out either. If he plays at an Alex Smith '11 level it will be amazing, and Alex (whom I actually like) is merely "good" at his best. Our receivers are the same mix of "potential" plus one big name that we had the last season. Our projected tight ends don't even have that one big name - it's all "potential" and former busts. Our OL hasn't been good for years; Staley is awesome, but he's also a year older from last season's disastrous campaign. The rest of the line MAY have gelled - or not. If it's "not" then I expect Hoyer to be in the IR by Week 6. Our running backs have "potential": a veteran that has shown flashes and never stays healthy; and the coach's personal draft crush who may be amazing, or a headcase, or merely serviceable. But who is DEFINITELY a rookie, therefore who knows? On D we have a former All Pro who is coming back from his second career threatening injury; 3 top picks on the DL who are entirely unproven and who may not even be able to play together at the same time due to scheme (for the record, Buckner and Thomas were my own draft crushes, so I'm not against the players). Who else? Safety looks OK, though Tartt (another oddball pick, which I really, REALLY wanted to pan out, but hasn't so far) is still at "potential" level. Corners have "potential", though the one proven veteran (who was no hot shakes at that) was correctly fired for being a woman-beating bum. The other two LBs are an underperforming veteran and a rookie with an injury cloud over him.

And we finally have our managerial team. An owner who is a known meddler, messer-up and entitled silver spoon. A CEO-type (whatever his title is this month) whose image the team are trying really hard to rehabilitate, but who has been accused of messing with management in the past to disastrous effect. We have a rookie GM, who granted has been saying all the right things and seeming like he's actually doing the right things (I like the man!). And we have another "genius" coach, to follow from our genius from last year, who followed (with a one year plumber-at-the-helm interlude) a "quarterback whisperer" (who did wonderfully but who was apparently an insufferable headcase), who followed a HOFer with vaunted motivational skills, who followed another "genius" (defensive variant) from a defensively storied franchise, who followed a college genius, who followed... hang on, we're back to Mariucci now, and I liked Mariucci!

We are justly mocked as "Whiners". It's true. We whine. I am as bad (heck, my other American sports team is a Philadelphia team. Boooooooo! QED). But living through the dynasty years will do that to you. I liked going into a game expecting a victory and into a season expecting the championship game at worst. The only time I felt like this since 1999 was about 6 months into the 2002 season, and again in 2012-3. I miss that. "Silver linings" are no substitute.

Holy crap brother have some compassion and get some paragraphs going ;)

I think things become much better if you realize that this is not a one year fix and you have to treat it as such. We took a big step to helping our defense this offseason and I'm sure that will reflect on the field but given the youth out there it may not be a worst to first type of situation. I think if we're up in the 15-23 defenses then it's a huge step up from what we had last year.

QB is clearly an issue and given the signings and the draft I think it's safe to say we're not done addressing the position.

Now anyone expecting playoffs this year will be in for a disappointment(although I felt the same heading into the 2011 season so who the heck knows).

I think the offense will struggle just to the new scheme and lack of talent but we won't be a laughing stock either. If we win 6 games I think that would be a huge improvement.

And don't forget at one point Bill Walsh was just a "genius" and first time NFL HC(he did act as Stanford's HC for 2 years prior but still NFL is a different ball game)

Let's see what happens first.

Originally posted by paulk205:
Oh, and I forgot to mention again our genius coach had the greatest choke job in the history of the SB, and the second worst in the history of the playoffs only after Houston's collapse vs Buffalo. And that our great hope for redemption is that an overrated former teacher's pet in the NFL's second most dysfunctional franchise will choose the NFL's most dysfunctional franchise next offseason as the source for his exorbitant contract who will cripple their cap space for years. Woo-hoo! I feel full of hope.

lol cut it out. Falcons had a 28-3 lead. Playcalling did not lose them that game. That's absolutely ridiculous. You could say he got over aggressive but there was a whole lot of other events happening in that game for the Falcons to blow that lead...including surrendering all those points on DEFENSE.

Everyone loved Shanahan when his aggressive playcalling was routing teams and turning Matt Ryan into a league MVP. Suddenly it's all Kyle's fault because Ryan eats a sack a guy like Tom Brady never takes and the Falcons let Brady march down the field at will?

And btw you should look at our cap situation. Cousins' contract even if he got the highest QB contract at the time(won't happen) will not cripple the team considering every season QBs get the "highest QB contract" and every season the salary cap climbs like crazy.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by paulk205:

Originally posted by paulk205:

It was a legit post about my fears on the team.

Oh, and I forgot to mention again our genius coach had the greatest choke job in the history of the SB, and the second worst in the history of the playoffs only after Houston's collapse vs Buffalo. And that our great hope for redemption is that an overrated former teacher's pet in the NFL's second most dysfunctional franchise will choose the NFL's most dysfunctional franchise next offseason as the source for his exorbitant contract who will cripple their cap space for years. Woo-hoo! I feel full of hope.

Yet that "choke-artist" was one of the main reasons why they were in the SB and had a chance to win it....I'm sure that ATL D giving up 570 yards, pats allowing only 2.6 ypc in the 2nd half, the holding penalty, or freeman totally whiffing on a block had nothing to do with the outcome of that game. Takes a whole team to win and lose.

Also the biggest choke job in SB history was the Seattle game

Please explain what it is about Kirk that you don't like? Is it the avg comp% of 68.4, avg 4,500 yards, is it the 63 total TDs vs 23 ints, or the 5th and 7th overall QB rating in his first two yrs as a starter? Or the fact that he had the 21st and 28th ranked run game and defense last yr to help him out?

Here's a nice little article explaining in depth about kirk's 2016 season

http://www.espn980.com/2017/01/27/the-truth-about-kirk-cousins-2016-season/

Also who said kyle is throwing in all his chips on Kirk? The media mainly...I got no problem drafting a QB, but bringing in someone that does know Kyle's complex system and someone that he believes in is huge. It also helps with bringing in FAs. Throw in we most likely have a top 5 pick which can be moved to a team that needs a QB and we can get a f**k load for it based on the QB class...think like the titans we could build the OL, get a pass rusher, and a WR with all those picks on top of the extra ones lynch got us....cheap rookie contracts.

We're gonna have over $80 million in cap space and who to spend it on? There's not much worth spending on currently for this team and FA is a crap shoot. He makes $25 million SF is STILL in the top end of the league in cap space.

I really don't see the issue at all

Not to mention our OWN choke job where actual play calling killed our perfect Superbowl record vs. execution issues (Atlanta) where play calling was fine given the context of the game.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Not to mention our OWN choke job where actual play calling killed our perfect Superbowl record vs. execution issues (Atlanta) where play calling was fine given the context of the game.

Kap had 3 choices of plays at any given time. One run that looked like it would have worked had he been able to call that play in time.

Matt had a play that would have worked had there not been a blown block.

Both are execution issues.

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Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Not to mention our OWN choke job where actual play calling killed our perfect Superbowl record vs. execution issues (Atlanta) where play calling was fine given the context of the game.

Kap had 3 choices of plays at any given time. One run that looked like it would have worked had he been able to call that play in time.

Matt had a play that would have worked had there not been a blown block.

Both are execution issues.

"You just have to do your best job to execute the play that's called." ~ Colin Kaepernick

But I was talking about play calling and poor situational awareness and poor preparation the entire game, not just the final 4 plays although those were a microcosm of all our offensive issues as well, wrapped up in one nice package too.

Originally posted by NCommand:
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"You just have to do your best job to execute the play that's called." ~ Colin Kaepernick

But I was talking about play calling and poor situational awareness and poor preparation the entire game, not just the final 4 plays although those were a microcosm of all our offensive issues as well, wrapped up in one nice package too.

Not to bring up those bad memories or derail this thread but when you have two weeks to prepare for the biggest game of your life and you come out with an illegal formation penalty...well that's just bad prep by the coaches. For all the love Harbaugh got that was a game we should've won 9 times out of 10.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by NCommand:

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"You just have to do your best job to execute the play that's called." ~ Colin Kaepernick

But I was talking about play calling and poor situational awareness and poor preparation the entire game, not just the final 4 plays although those were a microcosm of all our offensive issues as well, wrapped up in one nice package too.

Not to bring up those bad memories or derail this thread but when you have two weeks to prepare for the biggest game of your life and you come out with an illegal formation penalty...well that's just bad prep by the coaches. For all the love Harbaugh got that was a game we should've won 9 times out of 10.

10/10. We had much more talent and depth IMHO. Granted, the Ravens got to play with a separate set of rules that Jim was unaware of but...