The Iron-Pyrite-Lining Thread (Negative people come on in!)

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
I think we are giving the Bears organization way too much credit with their ability to fill their QB position.

This team , arguably , has never gotten it right.

And the Niners have? Post-Debartalo?

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
My original post had 515 words in it, and one short sentence including Trubisky with the qualifier, "but I don't want to turn this into a Trubisky thread."

And I said Kyle was my top choice of coaches who were available, but I didn't like any of them all that much. "Choke artist" was harsh, but Peyton Manning was a choke artist; it didn't mean he can't win. He can win w/ a smart GM who has some vision, but the Niners don't have that.

The only coaching candidates I've really liked in recent memory were Pete Carroll (I was calling for the Niners to hire him when Mooch was still around), Jim Harbaugh, Dan Quinn, Andy Reid (not as a GM) & some college coaches who haven't made the jump yet.

Do you have any evidence to support that our current GM doesn't have a vision ?

Of course I don't. This is called a prediction. This is where I see Lynch taking the team based on what I think he's going to do. Just like I don't have any evidence that I think a draft pick is gonna be good or bad before he plays a single down, we're going to have to wait & see for this one as well. If I'm wrong, I'll come here & eat a buffet of crow. If I'm right, I'll be right.

If Cousins signs a long-term deal with the Redskins, that would change my entire outlook; and I'm rooting for that to happen.

So what do you think Lynch wants to do ? Sign Cousins I am assuming ? What else ?

He wants to sign Cousins and load up for 2018 when he should be loading up NOW for 2019 & beyond. He's just plugging holes with "meh" players, and that's not going to cut it with Cousins at QB. Garcon, Mitchell, Malcom Smith, Zuttah... That might get it done on the Packers; not the Redskins.

And signing Dumervil was a 2017 move, which only serves to have a worse draft pick next year.

It's all short-term, impatient thinking.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

And the Niners have? Post-Debartalo?

He wants to sign Cousins and load up for 2018 when he should be loading up NOW for 2019 & beyond. He's just plugging holes with "meh" players, and that's not going to cut it with Cousins at QB. Garcon, Mitchell, Zuttah... That might get it done on the Packers; not the Redskins.

And signing Dumervil was a 2017 move, which only serves to have a worse draft pick next year.

It's all short-term, impatient thinking.

Differences in opinion on trubisky aside, does passing on a qb, and receiving two extra picks in the first 3 rounds next year, not indicate planning for the future as opposed to impatient and short sighted thinking?

Then you mention how it was a bad decision to sign "meh" players. Yet in the same post, it was also a bad idea to sign an impact player in dumervil. Which is It? Should we plug holes with system experienced vets who won't wow anyone, but will help install the system for the future on team friendly contracts, or should we sign impact players who can "get it done?

And that's with the off base assumption that dumervil alone is going to translate to more wins.

Your argument is continuously about your disdain for cousins (you said your entire outlook on the team is dependent on redskins making cousins unavailable) which means that yes, this thread is indeed all about not signing trubisky instead

Originally posted by adrianlesnar:
Differences in opinion on trubisky aside, does passing on a qb, and receiving two extra picks in the first 3 rounds next year, not indicate planning for the future as opposed to impatient and short sighted thinking?

Not if he drafted a guy like Watson or tanked this season for Rosen. Heck; he could even draft Falk for about 100 milion less & just load up on talent everywhere else. The QB position would be about the same, and everywhere else would be much better 'cause he could sign top-flight talent.

And Dumervil is on the decline. It was a stupid, short-sided signing.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

I think we are giving the Bears organization way too much credit with their ability to fill their QB position.

This team , arguably , has never gotten it right.

And the Niners have? Post-Debartalo?

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

I think we are giving the Bears organization way too much credit with their ability to fill their QB position.

This team , arguably , has never gotten it right.

And the Niners have? Post-Debartalo?

Compared to Chicago we look like QB geniuses

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Compared to Chicago we look like QB geniuses

Cutler >>>>>>>>> Kaepernick.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Compared to Chicago we look like QB geniuses

Cutler >>>>>>>>> Kaepernick.

I'd take Garcia , Smith ,and Kaep over Cutler.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

He wants to sign Cousins and load up for 2018 when he should be loading up NOW for 2019 & beyond. He's just plugging holes with "meh" players, and that's not going to cut it with Cousins at QB. Garcon, Mitchell, Malcom Smith, Zuttah... That might get it done on the Packers; not the Redskins.

And signing Dumervil was a 2017 move, which only serves to have a worse draft pick next year.

It's all short-term, impatient thinking.

I fail to see how signing players the coaches seemingly wanted and or players who fit the system/schemes being installed and who can provide leadership is a bad thing. Building a long term contender is not going to be done by loading up in one off-season.

None of what you said shows any lack of vision by the men in charge of this organization. Seems your issue is not that they don't have a vision but that you have a diffrence in opinion on how to skin a cat (and there is more than one way to skin a cat) and are frustrated by them not sharing your vision. You have already written off what they are doing before a down has been played seemingly because your blueprint was not followed.

There is nothing wrong with thinking they are not doing this right. But judging by the tone of your posts you seemingly would rather be right than wrong just so you can say I told you so and toot your own horn. It's too early to know if they are building this the right way or not, gonna take at least 2 seasons IMHO to truly know that given the large roster turnover they have begun to implement.

The fact that it appears the FO and coaching staff appear to be on the same page with the players they added and subtracted is an indication of a vision being in place and being followed.

As for Cousins, if this organization pursues him hard then I'd say that Shanahan is clearly behind it and that he sees something the Cousins detractors do not. That wouldn't be all Lynch, and again would indicate they have a vision even if that vision isn't one shared by some.

This "there is no vision" is a bunch of hot air and nothing more.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
He wants to sign Cousins and load up for 2018 when he should be loading up NOW for 2019 & beyond. He's just plugging holes with "meh" players, and that's not going to cut it with Cousins at QB. Garcon, Mitchell, Malcom Smith, Zuttah... That might get it done on the Packers; not the Redskins.

And signing Dumervil was a 2017 move, which only serves to have a worse draft pick next year.

It's all short-term, impatient thinking.

I fail to see how signing players the coaches seemingly wanted and or players who fit the system/schemes being installed and who can provide leadership is a bad thing. Building a long term contender is not going to be done by loading up in one off-season.

That's exactly my point! Lynch is thinking too short term. And "fit" and "leadership" don't mean s**t if you have mediocre talent level. And a QB like Cousins is gong to need talent like Peyton Manning had with the Broncos his SB year. Guys like Zuttah, Malcom Smith, Garcon (as a #1) & declining Dumervil are not going to cut it. In fact, the 49ers with Cousins should expect about the same result as the 2017 Redskins produce.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Compared to Chicago we look like QB geniuses

Cutler >>>>>>>>> Kaepernick.

Cutler behind our OL the past two yrs wouldn't make it 3 games without getting injuried. Thank god kap could at least run.

Both aren't very good...it's like comparing who's the smartest person with Down syndrome

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

He wants to sign Cousins and load up for 2018 when he should be loading up NOW for 2019 & beyond. He's just plugging holes with "meh" players, and that's not going to cut it with Cousins at QB. Garcon, Mitchell, Malcom Smith, Zuttah... That might get it done on the Packers; not the Redskins.

And signing Dumervil was a 2017 move, which only serves to have a worse draft pick next year.

It's all short-term, impatient thinking.

I fail to see how signing players the coaches seemingly wanted and or players who fit the system/schemes being installed and who can provide leadership is a bad thing. Building a long term contender is not going to be done by loading up in one off-season.

None of what you said shows any lack of vision by the men in charge of this organization. Seems your issue is not that they don't have a vision but that you have a diffrence in opinion on how to skin a cat (and there is more than one way to skin a cat) and are frustrated by them not sharing your vision. You have already written off what they are doing before a down has been played seemingly because your blueprint was not followed.

There is nothing wrong with thinking they are not doing this right. But judging by the tone of your posts you seemingly would rather be right than wrong just so you can say I told you so and toot your own horn. It's too early to know if they are building this the right way or not, gonna take at least 2 seasons IMHO to truly know that given the large roster turnover they have begun to implement.

The fact that it appears the FO and coaching staff appear to be on the same page with the players they added and subtracted is an indication of a vision being in place and being followed.

As for Cousins, if this organization pursues him hard then I'd say that Shanahan is clearly behind it and that he sees something the Cousins detractors do not. That wouldn't be all Lynch, and again would indicate they have a vision even if that vision isn't one shared by some.

This "there is no vision" is a bunch of hot air and nothing more.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

That's exactly my point! Lynch is thinking too short term. And "fit" and "leadership" don't mean s**t if you have mediocre talent level. And a QB like Cousins is gong to need talent like Peyton Manning had with the Broncos his SB year. Guys like Zuttah, Malcom Smith, Garcon (as a #1) & declining Dumervil are not going to cut it. In fact, the 49ers with Cousins should expect about the same result as the 2017 Redskins produce.

So why can't they get a couple FAs next yr? All the guys you meationed outside of Smith don't have longer contracts and can be replaced in a yr or two (if need be). Kyle and Co wanted players who are familiar with their system, that's pretty common when coaching staffs are moved around. You can't have a bunch of 23 yr olds playing in the NFL and expect to be competitive.

They might have $115 million in cap space next yr and already have one of the youngest teams in the league man. They could get Kirk and a f**k ton of other younger FAs if they choose and still be fine with the cap....PLUS throw in they have 5 picks in the top 100 ready to roll. That's postive stuff not negative imo.

They improved the team from last yr and have a ton of flexibility to make this team better in the long-term as well.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
Compared to Chicago we look like QB geniuses

Cutler >>>>>>>>> Kaepernick.

Cutler behind our OL the past two yrs wouldn't make it 3 games without getting injuried. Thank god kap could at least run.

Both aren't very good...it's like comparing who's the smartest person with Down syndrome

Cutler's OL was worse than the Niners' OL was last year for the majority of his career in Chicago. It got better around 2014, but it was one of the worse units in the league for the beginning of his career there.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Cutler's OL was worse than the Niners' OL was last year for the majority of his career in Chicago. It got better around 2014, but it was one of the worse units in the league for the beginning of his career there.

Not according to football outsiders not even close...

SF in 2015 had the 32nd ranked run blocking OL and 31st ranked pass blocking OL. 2016 SF was 32nd in run blocking and 30th in pass blocking

Chi in 2015 was 7th in run blocking and 12th in pass blocking...2016 8th in run blocking 7th in pass blocking.

And I said the past two yrs.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
Cutler's OL was worse than the Niners' OL was last year for the majority of his career in Chicago. It got better around 2014, but it was one of the worse units in the league for the beginning of his career there.

Not according to football outsiders not even close...

SF in 2015 had the 32nd ranked run blocking OL and 31st ranked pass blocking OL. 2016 SF was 32nd in run blocking and 30th in pass blocking

Chi in 2015 was 7th in run blocking and 12th in pass blocking...2016 8th in run blocking 7th in pass blocking.

And I said the past two yrs.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Then there isn't a disagreement here if we're talking the last 2 years. But dog-s**t QB play always makes an OL look worse (Kaepernick).