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The Iron-Pyrite-Lining Thread (Negative people come on in!)

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To take this thread away from the endless "Should of drafted X" chatter, let me go back to my much-maligned gloomy take last July, and see how foolish my fool's gold predictions look like so far
Our starting QB has a past missing major chunks of seasons and, though very serviceable (he's no Gabbert) he's not exactly lights out either. If he plays at an Alex Smith '11 level it will be amazing, and Alex (whom I actually like) is merely "good" at his best.

Hm. Better and worse than what expected. As in, he's still upright but he's pretty dreadful, in fact somewhat Gabbert-ish. Alex on the other hand is doing better than merely "good so far.

Let's call it a wash.

Our receivers are the same mix of "potential" plus one big name that we had the last season. Our projected tight ends don't even have that one big name - it's all "potential" and former busts.

I think I'm bang on here. Potential, sure, but also atrocious drops at back breaking moments, and low production all round.

Many of the former busts at TE have been already cut/traded.

Our OL hasn't been good for years; Staley is awesome, but he's also a year older from last season's disastrous campaign. The rest of the line MAY have gelled - or not. If it's "not" then I expect Hoyer to be in the IR by Week 6.

Mixed, but mostly right so far. Still on for Hoyer-in-the-IR-by-Week 6, if he doesn't get benched first.

Our running backs have "potential": a veteran that has shown flashes and never stays healthy; and the coach's personal draft crush who may be amazing, or a headcase, or merely serviceable. But who is DEFINITELY a rookie, therefore who knows?

Mostly right. Hyde has been excellent, but with his running style won't last long. Coach's Pet didn't even make the team - he got stashed in IR with a mild headache, or whatever spurious excuse we used to stash him.

On D we have a former All Pro who is coming back from his second career threatening injury. The other two LBs are an underperforming veteran and a rookie with an injury cloud over him. 3 top picks on the DL who are entirely unproven and who may not even be able to play together at the same time due to scheme (for the record, Buckner and Thomas were my own draft crushes, so I'm not against the players).

DLine has been good. We still don't have a pass-rush to speak of, but we are not being gashed for half miles on the ground any longer. Foster looked good for the 10 minutes he played, or whatever it was before a different injury got him. Bowman, thank heavens, is still healthy. I love the guy, but always fear the worst for his legs.

I'll admit I've been mostly wrong here.

Who else? Safety looks OK, though Tartt (another oddball pick, which I really, REALLY wanted to pan out, but hasn't so far) is still at "potential" level. Corners have "potential", though the one proven veteran (who was no hot shakes at that) was correctly fired for being a woman-beating bum.

Secondary has been good, though it's a moral victory - with no pass-rush worth the name they will get exposed. Ex-CB got cleared, but makes no difference to us.

Here the optimists can still hope with good cause.

And we finally have our managerial team. An owner who is a known meddler, messer-up and entitled silver spoon.

I'm cast-iron, 100% right here.

A CEO-type (whatever his title is this month) whose image the team are trying really hard to rehabilitate, but who has been accused of messing with management in the past to disastrous effect.

Ditto.

We have a rookie GM, who granted has been saying all the right things and seeming like he's actually doing the right things (I like the man!).

As you were. I still like the man and his draft picks look like they're producing (please! don't turn this into a Trubisky discussion too).

And we have another "genius" coach, to follow from our genius from last year, who followed (with a one year plumber-at-the-helm interlude) a "quarterback whisperer" (who did wonderfully but who was apparently an insufferable headcase), who followed a HOFer with vaunted motivational skills, who followed another "genius" (defensive variant) from a defensively storied franchise, who followed a college genius, who followed... hang on, we're back to Mariucci now, and I liked Mariucci!

I'm still waiting to see the genius. Benefit of the doubt, though I'm still cautious. I don't like "geniuses" not named Walsh. Win a championship with an innovative scheme, and then we talk. But it's early days, still.

Really, REALLY cautious about Our Lord and Saviour Kirk Cousins. He's a great story, and he seems like a good egg, but I just can't see how he can be this amazing solution for this otherwise very poor team in terms of talent. I listen to Tony K's show (podcast) for years now and I get rather more of the Washington fans' and reporters' take on him, and they confirm what I've always seen from him on the field: a sort of Alex Smith type of overall talent (and I liked Alex), seasoned with back breaking interceptions at the worst moment. He has cleaned up on these lately - as I said, I like the guy and he is a great story. But he will be paid like a couple of your more sybaritic kings next summer - unless he signs the Washington extension in which case we will see suicides here. Is he worth it? I don't think so. Sure, we have the cap space - NOW. But if we do start building up the rest of the team, they will want money too, and by that time the Cousins contract will be a millstone. I prefer going the boring veteran route (aka the Hoyer route) and keep drafting QBs. Perhaps one will stick.

Still insist on all the above. Cousins has been Cousinsy so far: some purple streaks, punctuated with some dreadful play. And he will command a tanker-load of money in the offseason. I still say draft QBs (I do mean it! I did not want us to draft Trubisky, so lay off the Trubisky comments please).

I hope we do ok, but I fear this will be another 4-12 or thereabouts season, with "potential" though.

In the PYMWYMI thread I actually predicted 7-9, being in truth an eternal optimist. 4-12 looks the likeliest to me at present.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
That's a horrible track record lol love how you left cooks off the liked list

82-83% beats almost every GM in the NFL over the last 20 years. You sound jelly.

And Cook (a 4th rounder; if you read closely, I was talking about 1st & 2nd rounders) is in his 2nd friggn' year. Were you also one of the guys who was talking about how Goff was already a bust last season? I'm guessing yes.

[ Edited by NinerSickness on Sep 20, 2017 at 10:09 PM ]
Originally posted by NinerSickness:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
That's a horrible track record lol love how you left cooks off the liked list

82-83% beats almost every GM in the NFL over the last 20 years. You sound jelly.

And Cook (a 4th rounder; if you read closely, I was talking about 1st & 2nd rounders) is in his 2nd friggn' year. Were you also one of the guys who was talking about how Goff was already a bust last season? I'm guessing yes.


A little late on the reply man lol. I don't care if cook was a 4th rd pick you were the one blowing him up all through the draft process and he's currently 3rd on the depth chart...I don't even think he's active on game days.

I was one of the guys who had wentz over Goff (I didn't hate Goff go look at his thread)...and let's slow down on Goff, he just played two of the worst pass Ds in the league. I hope he does well enough that the Rams don't go in another direction for QB.

I think it's laughable how you go around in here trying to stroke your own ego, like your a GM or something lol...calm down. No one cares about your "numbers" besides you.

I agree with you about Rosen, so let's just leave it at that...move along.
Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
-Thought the team really made some strides last week, especially on D

-If Hoyer has just a decent game they probably would have won. It started bad for him on his first pass, missing a wide open Goodwin 15-20 yards down the field

-Hyde and Breida showed well and could be a promising tandem going forward

-Garcon continues to show he'll be that surehanded, tough, possession WR but otherwise this team really lacks a playmaking WR. I like Taylor, both in the slot and returning punts. Seems to be adjusting to the NFL game very well. TE Kittle looks very promising, blocking and receiving...just needs to stay healthy

-The OL rebounded well from last game - a big part of this was Tomlinson already showing he's fitting in well and a no-doubt upgrade over Beadles. Wish the C Kilgore was better - he continues to show average-to-below average C play - but maybe he improves (such as in protection calls) as he gets more comfortable with this scheme. Overall, I liked the run and pass blocking, especially against one of the tougher front sevens and in such a hostile environment (no false starts?)

-The D line displayed some of the talent it has and that will only become more frequent as these guys (especially the young guys) get more refined and get more reps in this scheme. The depth on the D line was also great to see...the rookie Jones got quite a few snaps and was effective/held his own on the inside

-When Foster gets back, this D will be that much better, faster, etc. He'll also put Ray-Ray back on the bench (he's a good back-up but that's about it). Bowman, we saw the good and the bad/post-major-injuries LB play. I do like his veteran presence in the middle; however, Foster is badly needed to help this group play faster. As for Harold, I first thought he was kind of a ghost out there...but after watching it a 2nd time you see him holding his side down, being strong on the edge, and allowing other guys to make the tackle after a short or no gain. I know the jury is still out on him but he's still very young and does show promise at times

-The secondary did well for the most part...Williams was all over the field and held up well covering the tough (the punk?) Baldwin. I know Robinson gave up the winning TD but had a pretty good game otherwise (gotta catch that INT hitting you in the numbers, though). Same with Johnson - did well and stuck his nose in there tackling. The safeties impressed and gave Seattle WRs and TEs something to think about when coming over the middle (Tartt in particular). That pass in the end zone from Wilson to McEvoy...yes, it was a drop as has been pointed out, but who's to say he hangs on anyway as he was outstretched and about to get rocked. Reid looks like a different player this year and was having another good game...really hoping it's just a three-week thing with his knee. Ward was very active and impressive considering he missed pretty much all of TC and the preseason. Stay healthy, Ward - I want to see what you got in this D scheme

If this D can keep it up and play consistently at a similar level as last week, I like the team's chances vs. some of these teams coming up on the schedule (Rams, maybe Cards - not impressed w/ them, Colts, Bears, Texans, etc.). The O of course does have to do its part - it has to have some long, sustained drives that result in 7 and not just 3 - the D needs this and hopefully will not again this year play as many snaps as it did this last game.

All in all, like many, I was encouraged by last week's game but also very disappointed in the L. Let's see if the team can keep building and get better each week - both on O and D. (This post may be too positive for this thread - copying and pasting into the Positive Thread now).

dont u wanna post that in the "Post game seattle' thread?'
Posting from a negative viewpoint doesnt mean taking shots at your fellow posters.

Be nice.
Originally posted by defenderDX:
Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:
-Thought the team really made some strides last week, especially on D

-If Hoyer has just a decent game they probably would have won. It started bad for him on his first pass, missing a wide open Goodwin 15-20 yards down the field

-Hyde and Breida showed well and could be a promising tandem going forward

-Garcon continues to show he'll be that surehanded, tough, possession WR but otherwise this team really lacks a playmaking WR. I like Taylor, both in the slot and returning punts. Seems to be adjusting to the NFL game very well. TE Kittle looks very promising, blocking and receiving...just needs to stay healthy

-The OL rebounded well from last game - a big part of this was Tomlinson already showing he's fitting in well and a no-doubt upgrade over Beadles. Wish the C Kilgore was better - he continues to show average-to-below average C play - but maybe he improves (such as in protection calls) as he gets more comfortable with this scheme. Overall, I liked the run and pass blocking, especially against one of the tougher front sevens and in such a hostile environment (no false starts?)

-The D line displayed some of the talent it has and that will only become more frequent as these guys (especially the young guys) get more refined and get more reps in this scheme. The depth on the D line was also great to see...the rookie Jones got quite a few snaps and was effective/held his own on the inside

-When Foster gets back, this D will be that much better, faster, etc. He'll also put Ray-Ray back on the bench (he's a good back-up but that's about it). Bowman, we saw the good and the bad/post-major-injuries LB play. I do like his veteran presence in the middle; however, Foster is badly needed to help this group play faster. As for Harold, I first thought he was kind of a ghost out there...but after watching it a 2nd time you see him holding his side down, being strong on the edge, and allowing other guys to make the tackle after a short or no gain. I know the jury is still out on him but he's still very young and does show promise at times

-The secondary did well for the most part...Williams was all over the field and held up well covering the tough (the punk?) Baldwin. I know Robinson gave up the winning TD but had a pretty good game otherwise (gotta catch that INT hitting you in the numbers, though). Same with Johnson - did well and stuck his nose in there tackling. The safeties impressed and gave Seattle WRs and TEs something to think about when coming over the middle (Tartt in particular). That pass in the end zone from Wilson to McEvoy...yes, it was a drop as has been pointed out, but who's to say he hangs on anyway as he was outstretched and about to get rocked. Reid looks like a different player this year and was having another good game...really hoping it's just a three-week thing with his knee. Ward was very active and impressive considering he missed pretty much all of TC and the preseason. Stay healthy, Ward - I want to see what you got in this D scheme

If this D can keep it up and play consistently at a similar level as last week, I like the team's chances vs. some of these teams coming up on the schedule (Rams, maybe Cards - not impressed w/ them, Colts, Bears, Texans, etc.). The O of course does have to do its part - it has to have some long, sustained drives that result in 7 and not just 3 - the D needs this and hopefully will not again this year play as many snaps as it did this last game.

All in all, like many, I was encouraged by last week's game but also very disappointed in the L. Let's see if the team can keep building and get better each week - both on O and D. (This post may be too positive for this thread - copying and pasting into the Positive Thread now).

dont u wanna post that in the "Post game seattle' thread?'

Already did - at least I posted this in Marvin's 'Thoughts after rewatching' thread. Any thoughts on what I wrote here?
Bump for my dude CC, we're 0-3 you're allowed to think we stink (spoiler alert: we do).
Honest question - after going 2-14 last year, changing the entire front office, the entire coaching staff, and half the roster this offseason - what did you guys expect?

I never had high expectations this season - 2-5 wins tops. It was literally impossible to fix this roster in one offseason, I am thinking another two off seasons before we are competitive. What I want to see are positive steps and growth from our young players and coaches overall.

Next year I want to see a long term fqb caliber qb in place. improved o-line, and continue to fill holes (there are so many!).

In my mind ive said ok - lets get more than 2 wins, then grind to .500, then eye the playoffs etc..
Originally posted by paulk205:
To take this thread away from the endless "Should of drafted X" chatter,

Should have.
Originally posted by NinerSickness:
Should have.

Superb. Thank you for this. Very constructive.
  • Rascal
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 13,926
Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Honest question - after going 2-14 last year, changing the entire front office, the entire coaching staff, and half the roster this offseason - what did you guys expect?

I never had high expectations this season - 2-5 wins tops. It was literally impossible to fix this roster in one offseason, I am thinking another two off seasons before we are competitive. What I want to see are positive steps and growth from our young players and coaches overall.

Next year I want to see a long term fqb caliber qb in place. improved o-line, and continue to fill holes (there are so many!).

In my mind ive said ok - lets get more than 2 wins, then grind to .500, then eye the playoffs etc..

4 wins.

Why? Lynch and Shanahan are supposed to be way better than Baalke and Kelly. So, if Kelly managed 2 wins, I don't think 4 wins is too much to ask for. Plus, Lynch and Shanahan had 100% free reins to do whatever they wanted with the roster which they did. They churned over the bulk of the previous roster and they had all the cap room as well as the last draft to do exactly what they saw fit to improve the 9ers.

I have always stated my expectations and had shared it here before which was seen to be pretty reasonable:

Year 1 - 4 wins
Year 2 - 6 wins
Year 3 - 9 wins
Year 4 - Playoffs
Originally posted by Rascal:
Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Honest question - after going 2-14 last year, changing the entire front office, the entire coaching staff, and half the roster this offseason - what did you guys expect?

I never had high expectations this season - 2-5 wins tops. It was literally impossible to fix this roster in one offseason, I am thinking another two off seasons before we are competitive. What I want to see are positive steps and growth from our young players and coaches overall.

Next year I want to see a long term fqb caliber qb in place. improved o-line, and continue to fill holes (there are so many!).

In my mind ive said ok - lets get more than 2 wins, then grind to .500, then eye the playoffs etc..

4 wins.

Why? Lynch and Shanahan are supposed to be way better than Baalke and Kelly. So, if Kelly managed 2 wins, I don't think 4 wins is too much to ask for. Plus, Lynch and Shanahan had 100% free reins to do whatever they wanted with the roster which they did. They churned over the bulk of the previous roster and they had all the cap room as well as the last draft to do exactly what they saw fit to improve the 9ers.

I have always stated my expectations and had shared it here before which was seen to be pretty reasonable:

Year 1 - 4 wins
Year 2 - 6 wins
Year 3 - 9 wins
Year 4 - Playoffs

I believe your opinion to be very fair. Except this year I'm expecting 2-5 tops (I'm leaning to the lower end of that range lol). Huge turn over. New year, new schedule, other teams improve/implode etc.

I believe my year 2 lines up with yours, but again it's really how well we do this off-season for me.
I don't think it is personnel, or admin at all. I think it is the Levi Stadium curse. Should have stayed in SF.
The people who cheer for the team when they lose at this point are just smart. we need a high draft pick to continue the building process. especially with a draft class full of ripe QB's for the picking. Period.
Jimmy G?????



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