The Iron-Pyrite-Lining Thread (Negative people come on in!)

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
iron pyrite is commonly mistaken for gold ("fools' gold").

and some people mistakenly thought RGIII would be/is much, much better than Kirk Cousins.

a real miner would recognize iron pyrite for what it is. 49ers were real gold miners, not fools.

moral: don't be taken in by the appearance/stats/hype/PR about a QB

My negative contribution is that Lynch has attended to the defense with much better players than the offense. Only the FB is first-rate. While the defense got three top draft picks, and Dumervil. The defense already had two stars in Buckner and Bowman, perhaps also Robinson.

The offense could have had Maclin or Decker at WR, or one of the top-rated free agent OL. I know there are arguments why we shouldn't have signed these guys (too much money, etc.). But Lynch apparently didn't even take a sniff at Maclin and the others. But he piled up at HB, which is what a defensive coach would choose, to chew up clock and keep his defense off the field. But the Niners have run the run game into the ground over the last several years.

I get the creepy feeling from Lynch that he's skewed to a fault to the defense. He and Baalke played DB. Maybe that's all they know. Last year, folks were saying that Chip Kelly alone would mean 3-5 wins. Now we're saying that about Shanahan with essentially the same level of talent as last year on offense.

Maybe my negativism is only a Baalke-STD.

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
My negative contribution is that Lynch has attended to the defense with much better players than the offense. Only the FB is first-rate. While the defense got three top draft picks, and Dumervil. The defense already had two stars in Buckner and Bowman, perhaps also Robinson.

The offense could have had Maclin or Decker at WR, or one of the top-rated free agent OL. I know there are arguments why we shouldn't have signed these guys (too much money, etc.). But Lynch apparently didn't even take a sniff at Maclin and the others. But he piled up at HB, which is what a defensive coach would choose, to chew up clock and keep his defense off the field. But the Niners have run the run game into the ground over the last several years.

I get the creepy feeling from Lynch that he's skewed to a fault to the defense. He and Baalke played DB. Maybe that's all they know. Last year, folks were saying that Chip Kelly alone would mean 3-5 wins. Now we're saying that about Shanahan with essentially the same level of talent as last year on offense.

Maybe my negativism is only a Baalke-STD.

Ugh...how naive are you?

First of all Shanahan calls the shots even though John has the title. How many offensive free agents did we sign and how many defensive? Our offense was actually better than our defense last year.

This isn't a one year turnaround process. The idea that we are forgetting the offense is dumb as hell. Maclin and Decker want to go to teams that can win now and cost a lot of money...plus where would they fit here?

Stop being so short sighted.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
iron pyrite is commonly mistaken for gold ("fools' gold").

and some people mistakenly thought RGIII would be/is much, much better than Kirk Cousins.

a real miner would recognize iron pyrite for what it is. 49ers were real gold miners, not fools.

moral: don't be taken in by the appearance/stats/hype/PR about a QB

Funny you should say that because I predicted that GRIII would be a below-average QB in the NFL (I didn't really watch Cousins enough to predict what he'd be).

I'm not saying Cousins sucks at all. It's just that you're going to pay a king's ransom for a QB who's not the least bit exciting. He could win a SB with the right defense IMO, but that'd have to be a hell of a defense.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
Funny you should say that because I predicted that GRIII would be a below-average QB in the NFL (I didn't really watch Cousins enough to predict what he'd be).

I'm not saying Cousins sucks at all. It's just that you're going to pay a king's ransom for a QB who's not the least bit exciting. He could win a SB with the right defense IMO, but that'd have to be a hell of a defense.

That's the whole point--its not the "excitement" or hype or PR that matters, its the intangibles that lead to wins that Shanahan appears to focus upon. What some call "exciting" others may see as merely "fool's gold." He passed on Trubs at #2 and took Beathard in the third cuz he didn"t see the same toughness, ability to quickly read a defense, competatve spirit, dedication, etc, in Trubs that he saw and sees in Beathard.

Originally posted by BOI49er:

I think what you are missing is that Kyle doesn't draft those 100 quarterbacks. It's not a game of statistics for him. He looks for very specific traits to fit what he wants to do, and he doesn't give a hoot where he's rated on anybody's draft board.

I, for one, would be very happy to have Cousins or Carr. I don't know of anybody else he wanted, so from my perspective, he's batting 1,000 on 4th and 2nd round picks.

We'll get a quarterback. Don't fret.

Oh, and guess what. He's already drafted a 3rd rounder for us. It might just be too easy to write him off, and if you do, it's Because he's a third round pick. I'd sure rather have JaMarcus Russell, or Jake Locker, or Vince Young, or Matt Leinart, or Steve Spurrier, or Jim Druckenmiller, or Blain Gabbert, or Christian Ponder. Oh Wait....... Of course, the list of top pick qb busts is infinate.

Here's the deal. You think the challenge is getting a franchise quarterback, and then you win. I think the challenge is getting a great offensive minded coach, and then he will get you your quarterback, and then you win. We did that.

What your missing is imo I think the top three guys do have those traits of what Kyle wants...this isn't gonna be a normal QB draft.

Carr or jimmy G would have been 1st rd picks in the past draft...every draft isn't the same.

Thinking that kyle can just mold whatever into a FQB is silly. There are a ton of very good offensives minded coaches in this league not just kyle. Talent is talent

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
Funny you should say that because I predicted that GRIII would be a below-average QB in the NFL (I didn't really watch Cousins enough to predict what he'd be).

I'm not saying Cousins sucks at all. It's just that you're going to pay a king's ransom for a QB who's not the least bit exciting. He could win a SB with the right defense IMO, but that'd have to be a hell of a defense.

While in no way am I comparing Cousins to Tom Brady...but what is "exciting" about Tom Brady?

Colin Kaepernick was exciting. How'd that go?

Honestly I'm not a huge fan of Cousins but if he can be had for just a large contract and no draft compensation then sign me the hell up. He's a proven QB in this league and one who knows Kyle's offense and Kyle is obviously very comfortable and familiar with Kirk. We have a ton of cap room. I'll have no issues if we paid him huge bucks(i'm sure there would be an easy out if somehow he sucks)

Getting Kirk would give us a lot of flexibility in finding the next guy up and not having to rush anyone while still giving us a chance to win games.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
Funny you should say that because I predicted that GRIII would be a below-average QB in the NFL (I didn't really watch Cousins enough to predict what he'd be).

I'm not saying Cousins sucks at all. It's just that you're going to pay a king's ransom for a QB who's not the least bit exciting. He could win a SB with the right defense IMO, but that'd have to be a hell of a defense.

That's the whole point--its not the "excitement" or hype or PR that matters, its the intangibles that lead to wins that Shanahan appears to focus upon. What some call "exciting" others may see as merely "fool's gold." He passed on Trubs at #2 and took Beathard in the third cuz he didn"t see the same toughness, ability to quickly read a defense, competatve spirit, dedication, etc, in Trubs that he saw and sees in Beathard.

h
'

I'm not talking about "Michael Vick" excitement; I'm talking about Ben Rosethlisberger excitement. Football-nerd excitement. Maybe I'm underestimating him, but I wouldn't be the least bit worried playing against him,

Originally posted by genus49:

Colin Kaepernick was exciting. How'd that go?

You misspelled infuriating. He was exciting up until the delay of game in the NFCCG on 3rd & 1 in the 4th quarter with 3 time outs left (or 2; i forget). At that point, I decided I was right about the guy in college.

And completions are exciting about Tom Brady. Touch downs. Winning is exciting (cheating is pretty exciting too).

Originally posted by genus49:

Getting Kirk would give us a lot of flexibility in finding the next guy up and not having to rush anyone while still giving us a chance to win games.

Wait, WHAAAAAT??? You want to give the biggest contract in NFL history for a stopgap QB? If you sign You-Like-That, it's for the long term.

And if the long-term plan is Beathard, then expect Steve-Mariucci-like results (when he was with the Lions).

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

My negative contribution is that Lynch has attended to the defense with much better players than the offense. Only the FB is first-rate. While the defense got three top draft picks, and Dumervil. The defense already had two stars in Buckner and Bowman, perhaps also Robinson.

The offense could have had Maclin or Decker at WR, or one of the top-rated free agent OL. I know there are arguments why we shouldn't have signed these guys (too much money, etc.). But Lynch apparently didn't even take a sniff at Maclin and the others. But he piled up at HB, which is what a defensive coach would choose, to chew up clock and keep his defense off the field. But the Niners have run the run game into the ground over the last several years.

I get the creepy feeling from Lynch that he's skewed to a fault to the defense. He and Baalke played DB. Maybe that's all they know. Last year, folks were saying that Chip Kelly alone would mean 3-5 wins. Now we're saying that about Shanahan with essentially the same level of talent as last year on offense.

Maybe my negativism is only a Baalke-STD.

Ugh...how naive are you?

First of all Shanahan calls the shots even though John has the title. How many offensive free agents did we sign and how many defensive? Our offense was actually better than our defense last year.

This isn't a one year turnaround process. The idea that we are forgetting the offense is dumb as hell. Maclin and Decker want to go to teams that can win now and cost a lot of money...plus where would they fit here?

Stop being so short sighted.

This...we brought in a s**t ton of offensive players in FA and drafts aren't all the same...this was top heavy on defense not offense, if it was the browns would have gonna for a QB at one. Good teams take the talent not the position.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Funny you should say that because I predicted that GRIII would be a below-average QB in the NFL (I didn't really watch Cousins enough to predict what he'd be).

I'm not saying Cousins sucks at all. It's just that you're going to pay a king's ransom for a QB who's not the least bit exciting. He could win a SB with the right defense IMO, but that'd have to be a hell of a defense.

Wait so a QB who's pretty much top 10 in all the qb stats in the NFL isn't exciting but a QB that has 13 starts in college is? I'll take proven talent vs unknown talent

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by genus49:

Getting Kirk would give us a lot of flexibility in finding the next guy up and not having to rush anyone while still giving us a chance to win games.

Wait, WHAAAAAT??? You want to give the biggest contract in NFL history for a stopgap QB? If you sign You-Like-That, it's for the long term.

And if the long-term plan is Beathard, then expect Steve-Mariucci-like results (when he was with the Lions).

Who said he's a stop-gap QB....you? Lol

He'd be getting a contract while he's in his prime, not when he's some old 36 yr old QB

Originally posted by NinerSickness:
I'm not talking about "Michael Vick" excitement; I'm talking about Ben Rosethlisberger excitement. Football-nerd excitement. Maybe I'm underestimating him, but I wouldn't be the least bit worried playing ,against him,

yes, you are underestimating Cousins--and Shanahan--hyperbolically,no doubt, but still grossly.

And that still raises a question about your football acumen when compared to that of Lynch and Shanahan, whom you have so thoroughly questioned and doubted in this thread. Disappointing.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by BOI49er:

I think what you are missing is that Kyle doesn't draft those 100 quarterbacks. It's not a game of statistics for him. He looks for very specific traits to fit what he wants to do, and he doesn't give a hoot where he's rated on anybody's draft board.

I, for one, would be very happy to have Cousins or Carr. I don't know of anybody else he wanted, so from my perspective, he's batting 1,000 on 4th and 2nd round picks.

We'll get a quarterback. Don't fret.

Oh, and guess what. He's already drafted a 3rd rounder for us. It might just be too easy to write him off, and if you do, it's Because he's a third round pick. I'd sure rather have JaMarcus Russell, or Jake Locker, or Vince Young, or Matt Leinart, or Steve Spurrier, or Jim Druckenmiller, or Blain Gabbert, or Christian Ponder. Oh Wait....... Of course, the list of top pick qb busts is infinate.

Here's the deal. You think the challenge is getting a franchise quarterback, and then you win. I think the challenge is getting a great offensive minded coach, and then he will get you your quarterback, and then you win. We did that.

What your missing is imo I think the top three guys do have those traits of what Kyle wants...this isn't gonna be a normal QB draft.

Carr or jimmy G would have been 1st rd picks in the past draft...every draft isn't the same.

Thinking that kyle can just mold whatever into a FQB is silly. There are a ton of very good offensives minded coaches in this league not just kyle. Talent is talent

I certainly don't think Kyle can mold whatever into a FQB. Never said that. What I said is that what he can mold into a FQB will not always be found at the top of other people's board.

You may be right. Maybe his guy is at the top of next year's draft. So, what's your solution. Tank the season?

I think it will be moot, because here's what I think will happen. I think we Will get Cousins, Hoyer is signed for another year already, Beathard will be going into his second year, we won't need a quarterback, and we use that first pick on our Julio Jones. With a second off season and draft, we'll be back already.

It took Cousins three years to get good, it took Carr three years to get good, and it will take Beathard three years to get good, but we'll already be cooking with two veterans at the helm and a youngster coming along. With your rookie, not so much. Or is that just my vision of how to be smart running this franchise. Listening to what Kyle and Kirk have said, I don't think so. You may disagree.