The Iron-Pyrite-Lining Thread (Negative people come on in!)

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Wait, WHAAAAAT??? You want to give the biggest contract in NFL history for a stopgap QB? If you sign You-Like-That, it's for the long term.

And if the long-term plan is Beathard, then expect Steve-Mariucci-like results (when he was with the Lions).

1. Who said he'd get the biggest contract in NFL history?
2. Even if he did it would be a bargain within a season or two as other QBs came up for new deals.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Wait so a QB who's pretty much top 10 in all the qb stats in the NFL isn't exciting but a QB that has 13 starts in college is? I'll take proven talent vs unknown talent

He's gotta be trolling. Like I said I'm not a huge Cousins fan but there's no questioning how well he's played last two years. My biggest issue with him is his age. But his accuracy has been great and he can certainly win games with a good team around him.

Originally posted by BOI49er:
I certainly don't think Kyle can mold whatever into a FQB. Never said that. What I said is that what he can mold into a FQB will not always be found at the top of other people's board.

You may be right. Maybe his guy is at the top of next year's draft. So, what's your solution. Tank the season?

I think it will be moot, because here's what I think will happen. I think we Will get Cousins, Hoyer is signed for another year already, Beathard will be going into his second year, we won't need a quarterback, and we use that first pick on our Julio Jones. With a second off season and draft, we'll be back already.

It took Cousins three years to get good, it took Carr three years to get good, and it will take Beathard three years to get good, but we'll already be cooking with two veterans at the helm and a youngster coming along. With your rookie, not so much. Or is that just my vision of how to be smart running this franchise. Listening to what Kyle and Kirk have said, I don't think so. You may disagree.

good post.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by genus49:
Getting Kirk would give us a lot of flexibility in finding the next guy up and not having to rush anyone while still giving us a chance to win games.

Wait, WHAAAAAT??? You want to give the biggest contract in NFL history for a stopgap QB? If you sign You-Like-That, it's for the long term.

And if the long-term plan is Beathard, then expect Steve-Mariucci-like results (when he was with the Lions).

Who said he's a stop-gap QB....you? Lol

Ummmmm... "Getting Kirk would give us a lot of flexibility in finding the next guy up." -genius49

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Wait so a QB who's pretty much top 10 in all the qb stats in the NFL isn't exciting but a QB that has 13 starts in college is? I'll take proven talent vs unknown talent

He's gotta be trolling. Like I said I'm not a huge Cousins fan but there's no questioning how well he's played last two years. My biggest issue with him is his age. But his accuracy has been great and he can certainly win games with a good team around him.

I'm glad expectations have risen to the level of "he can win games." Everything except SB trophies are boring to me. And Cousins is not going to win one of those. Ever.

But if Romo-like postseason exits are your thing, then strap in for an exciting ride.

Originally posted by norcal49er864:

This thread is stupid.

Ya got that right..

Originally posted by Bali-Niner:

Originally posted by norcal49er864:
This thread is stupid.

Ya got that right..

The truth hurts sometimes. Come back in 3 or 4 years when the Niners haven't won a single playoff game & say this thread was stupid.

...They might win 1. Maybe 2 (but not in the same year). And even if they reach that peak, they'll the start to decline again.

If they draft Rosen (maybe Josh Allen or maybe, maybe, maybe Sam Darnold) then I'll take it back, but I don't see that happening.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

I'm glad expectations have risen to the level of "he can win games." Everything except SB trophies are boring to me. And Cousins is not going to win one of those. Ever.

But if Romo-like postseason exits are your thing, then strap in for an exciting ride.

Love to see some facts on why he can't....butt hurt about cooks and now turbisky is all I'm hearing.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

The truth hurts sometimes. Come back in 3 or 4 years when the Niners haven't won a single playoff game & say this thread was stupid.

...They might win 1. Maybe 2 (but not in the same year). And even if they reach that peak, they'll the start to decline again.

If they draft Rosen (maybe Josh Allen or maybe, maybe, maybe Sam Darnold) then I'll take it back, but I don't see that happening.

1st sentence says we won't win a single playoff game, then the 2nd second says we might win 2 man if only we drafted Conner cook

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Ummmmm... "Getting Kirk would give us a lot of flexibility in finding the next guy up." -genius49

I will respectfully disagree with genius on that...if our HC thinks he can win with Kirk (which he's stated) then I'm gonna listen to him vs the zone

This whole thread, which I think there is a place for seems to be about you not getting the QB or HC you wanted, not the "direction" or lack there of that you're trying to proceed it to be.

No matter which way we look at the roster shanny took over, they knew they wanted a near complete turnover. Whether we get a QB this year or next is more of a reflection of how many holes we had. Shanny obviously felt better about next years class since we passed on this years available QBs but adding picks for next year.

If beathard pans out, this draft and overhaul might be one of the better off seasons in recent memory.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Love to see some facts on why he can't....butt hurt about cooks and now turbisky is all I'm hearing.

Do you realize why that's a stupid post? You want "facts" to disprove a.... future event? Can we at least have some coherence?

Here's my track record on QBs over the years (I didn't have an opinion on all of 'em). I'll do 1st & 2nd only round only to keep the list short:

Liked: Trubisky, Goff, Luck, Sanchez, Eli Manning, Watson

Thought were ok to pretty decent: Tannehill, Stafford, Dalton, Henne, Cutler, Aaron Rodgers (underestimated), Mariota, Kizer, Palmer

Thought were below-average: EJ Manuel, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, Bortles, Bridgewater, Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton (still say I was right), Colin Kaepernick, Matt Ryan, Alex Smith

Thought would bust out completely: Hackenberg, Paxton Lynch, Johnny Manziel, Geno Smith, Brandon Weeden, Ponder, Bradford (called him "Bustford"), Tebow, Clausen, Josh Freeman, Jamarcus, Quinn, Kolb, Beck, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jason Campbell, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman, Joey Harrington

That's a pretty, f***ing, great track record on QBs. Getting trashed over the years for saying the likes of Leftwhich, Freeman, Leinart, Bradford, Young, etc. busts were fun posts to bump.

...But the point of this thread isn't the QBs the Niners aren't going to have; the point is the QB there's a good chance they WILL have: Kirk Cousins. He's an ok / decent QB. That's the worst kind of QB to have. JUST good enough to make you relevant but not even close to good enough to win a SB (think Jeff Garcia).

Cousins is a death trap for any team who likes SB trophies unless you put together a 2002 Buccs' defense.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

This whole thread, which I think there is a place for seems to be about you not getting the QB or HC you wanted, not the "direction" or lack there of that you're trying to proceed it to be.

QB and HC are the most & 2nd-most important pieces of a franchise (tied for 2nd is GM). Of course it has to do with that. But it's about Kirk Cousins and / or friggn' Beathard or Brian Hoyer.

You have 2 options: going with guys like this or going with an unknown. Any realistic, objective person KNOWS for certain these guys aren't ever going to hoist a trophy. They won't (unless you get a defense like the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Buccs, 2013 Seahawks). So a realistic person takes the unknown (Trubisky, Rosen, Josh Allen maybe, etc).

When Cousins, Beathard & Brian Hoyer all retire, they will have won a combined ZERO super bowls.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Do you realize why that's a stupid post? You want "facts" to disprove a.... future event? Can we at least have some coherence?

Here's my track record on QBs over the years (I didn't have an opinion on all of 'em). I'll do 1st & 2nd only round only to keep the list short:

Liked: Trubisky, Goff, Luck, Sanchez, Eli Manning, Watson

Thought were ok to pretty decent: Tannehill, Stafford, Dalton, Henne, Cutler, Aaron Rodgers (underestimated), Mariota, Kizer, Palmer

Thought were below-average: EJ Manuel, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, Bortles, Bridgewater, Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton (still say I was right), Colin Kaepernick, Matt Ryan, Alex Smith

Thought would bust out completely: Hackenberg, Paxton Lynch, Johnny Manziel, Geno Smith, Brandon Weeden, Ponder, Bradford (called him "Bustford"), Tebow, Clausen, Josh Freeman, Jamarcus, Quinn, Kolb, Beck, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jason Campbell, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman, Joey Harrington

That's a pretty, f***ing, great track record on QBs. Getting trashed over the years for saying the likes of Leftwhich, Freeman, Leinart, Bradford, Young, etc. busts were fun posts to bump.

...But the point of this thread isn't the QBs the Niners aren't going to have; the point is the QB there's a good chance they WILL have: Kirk Cousins. He's an ok / decent QB. That's the worst kind of QB to have. JUST good enough to make you relevant but not even close to good enough to win a SB (think Jeff Garcia).

Cousins is a death trap for any team who likes SB trophies unless you put together a 2002 Buccs' defense.

How can you discount the thought Cousins will play better under Kyle, when Every quarterback does, and Kyle's offense is clearly a match for Kirk's skill set?

Originally posted by BOI49er:
How can you discount the thought Cousins will play better under Kyle, when Every quarterback does, and Kyle's offense is clearly a match for Kirk's skill set?

That's why I say he's an Ok / decent QB. Do you know how passionately Niners' fans defended Jeff Garcia as a good QB? They were delusional. He was a "meh" QB. Just like Kirk.

It's better to have a QB who sucks out loud than a QB who's "meh" because at least you KNOW the sucky QB needs to be replaced. The latter will stick around for years like a wart.