The Iron-Pyrite-Lining Thread (Negative people come on in!)

Honest thread. I like it.

Valid point that we passed on a possible fqb. (Although I am in the opinion we did the right thing- the more I saw of Trubisky, I felt he wouldn't pan out).

That being said the future guarantees nothing. So I get why you would be upset. We have no idea where we will pick and if a fqb will be there for us next year. The team could improve enough to never have a top pick gain, but also never have that fqb, making us pedestrian for the next 8 years, like the harbaugh era. If next years off-season doesn't land us a fqb, it will make things look worse.

I also am not into Cousins. Locking up massive $ for a guy already on the backend of his prime feels like a short term solution and overall just isn't that exciting.

My hope is that we improve, but I don't see more than 5-6 wins. That should be right around top 10. Then we assume they love a qb in the draft and will trade the house for him? Risky.

Basically they must have some sort of plan for the next year or two that involves solidifying the qb position.

We shall see!

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Ummmmm... "Getting Kirk would give us a lot of flexibility in finding the next guy up." -genius49

Don't take my words out of context. Having Kirk on board would give us that flexibility. Just like the Pats have it with Brady.

I never said it HAD to be within a year or two but having a guy like Kirk does give the team a luxury of addressing the position for the future when it makes sense versus reaching for a huge need...like drafting Trubisky.


IF Kyle thinks a QB worth drafting and developing is there then we take him. If there's nobody who has a chance to be better than Kirk then we address another position.

The Pats have drafted QB how many years now with Brady around? Look at Green Bay and the Aaron Rodgers pick.

It didn't make Tom Brady or Brett Favre "stop gaps". Brian Hoyer is a stop gap.

Kirk Cousins is a legit player. Certainly much better and more proven than Trubisky.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

I'm glad expectations have risen to the level of "he can win games." Everything except SB trophies are boring to me. And Cousins is not going to win one of those. Ever.

But if Romo-like postseason exits are your thing, then strap in for an exciting ride.

Romo like postseason exits? How do you figure? Because he's had so many opportunities on that team? The one postseason game he started he had over 300 yards 1 passing and 1 rushing TD and no picks.

How is that Romo like? Peyton Manning had 9 first round exists. Would you take him at 30 or is he not exciting enough for you either?

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

My negative contribution is that Lynch has attended to the defense with much better players than the offense. Only the FB is first-rate. While the defense got three top draft picks, and Dumervil. The defense already had two stars in Buckner and Bowman, perhaps also Robinson.

The offense could have had Maclin or Decker at WR, or one of the top-rated free agent OL. I know there are arguments why we shouldn't have signed these guys (too much money, etc.). But Lynch apparently didn't even take a sniff at Maclin and the others. But he piled up at HB, which is what a defensive coach would choose, to chew up clock and keep his defense off the field. But the Niners have run the run game into the ground over the last several years.

I get the creepy feeling from Lynch that he's skewed to a fault to the defense. He and Baalke played DB. Maybe that's all they know. Last year, folks were saying that Chip Kelly alone would mean 3-5 wins. Now we're saying that about Shanahan with essentially the same level of talent as last year on offense.

Maybe my negativism is only a Baalke-STD.

Dude our defense was historically horrible. Grand canyon bad. Epic proportion bad. You cant not address this immediately and have a pulse. Probably, lynch and shanny could have taken every single pick in the draft to find players who can tackle. But that wouldnt look good. So they didnt.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Do you realize why that's a stupid post? You want "facts" to disprove a.... future event? Can we at least have some coherence?

Here's my track record on QBs over the years (I didn't have an opinion on all of 'em). I'll do 1st & 2nd only round only to keep the list short:

Liked: Trubisky, Goff, Luck, Sanchez, Eli Manning, Watson

Thought were ok to pretty decent: Tannehill, Stafford, Dalton, Henne, Cutler, Aaron Rodgers (underestimated), Mariota, Kizer, Palmer

Thought were below-average: EJ Manuel, Carson Wentz, Jameis Winston, Bortles, Bridgewater, Robert Griffin III, Cam Newton (still say I was right), Colin Kaepernick, Matt Ryan, Alex Smith

Thought would bust out completely: Hackenberg, Paxton Lynch, Johnny Manziel, Geno Smith, Brandon Weeden, Ponder, Bradford (called him "Bustford"), Tebow, Clausen, Josh Freeman, Jamarcus, Quinn, Kolb, Beck, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, Jason Campbell, Byron Leftwich, Rex Grossman, Joey Harrington

That's a pretty, f***ing, great track record on QBs. Getting trashed over the years for saying the likes of Leftwhich, Freeman, Leinart, Bradford, Young, etc. busts were fun posts to bump.

...But the point of this thread isn't the QBs the Niners aren't going to have; the point is the QB there's a good chance they WILL have: Kirk Cousins. He's an ok / decent QB. That's the worst kind of QB to have. JUST good enough to make you relevant but not even close to good enough to win a SB (think Jeff Garcia).

Cousins is a death trap for any team who likes SB trophies unless you put together a 2002 Buccs' defense.

That's a horrible track record lol love how you left cooks off the liked list

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

This whole thread, which I think there is a place for seems to be about you not getting the QB or HC you wanted, not the "direction" or lack there of that you're trying to proceed it to be.

QB and HC are the most & 2nd-most important pieces of a franchise (tied for 2nd is GM). Of course it has to do with that. But it's about Kirk Cousins and / or friggn' Beathard or Brian Hoyer.

You have 2 options: going with guys like this or going with an unknown. Any realistic, objective person KNOWS for certain these guys aren't ever going to hoist a trophy. They won't (unless you get a defense like the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Buccs, 2013 Seahawks). So a realistic person takes the unknown (Trubisky, Rosen, Josh Allen maybe, etc).

When Cousins, Beathard & Brian Hoyer all retire, they will have won a combined ZERO super bowls.

Like I said you wrote this thread cause your butt hurt we didn't draft who you wanted and hire the coach you wanted lol.

This is all based off your opinion which is just that.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Any realistic, objective person KNOWS for certain these guys aren't ever going to hoist a trophy. They won't (unless you get a defense like the 2000 Ravens, 2002 Buccs, 2013 Seahawks). So a realistic person takes the unknown (Trubisky, Rosen, Josh Allen maybe, etc).

How can any realistic and objective person know for certain the outcome of future events ?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

That's a horrible track record lol love how you left cooks off the liked list

I like how Matt Ryan is below average. If he thinks Cousins is just average then I want him even more now.

Originally posted by evil:

How can any realistic and objective person know for certain the outcome of future events ?

What if they're from the future?

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
My negative contribution is that Lynch has attended to the defense with much better players than the offense. Only the FB is first-rate. While the defense got three top draft picks, and Dumervil. The defense already had two stars in Buckner and Bowman, perhaps also Robinson.

The offense could have had Maclin or Decker at WR, or one of the top-rated free agent OL. I know there are arguments why we shouldn't have signed these guys (too much money, etc.). But Lynch apparently didn't even take a sniff at Maclin and the others. But he piled up at HB, which is what a defensive coach would choose, to chew up clock and keep his defense off the field. But the Niners have run the run game into the ground over the last several years.

I get the creepy feeling from Lynch that he's skewed to a fault to the defense. He and Baalke played DB. Maybe that's all they know. Last year, folks were saying that Chip Kelly alone would mean 3-5 wins. Now we're saying that about Shanahan with essentially the same level of talent as last year on offense.

Maybe my negativism is only a Baalke-STD.

Ugh...how naive are you?

First of all Shanahan calls the shots even though John has the title. How many offensive free agents did we sign and how many defensive? Our offense was actually better than our defense last year.

This isn't a one year turnaround process. The idea that we are forgetting the offense is dumb as hell. Maclin and Decker want to go to teams that can win now and cost a lot of money...plus where would they fit here?

Stop being so short sighted.

I'm so naive I don't listen to the voice in your head telling you that Shanahan calls the shots. The number of FA signings is immaterial. And I never said the offense was forgotten. Again, that voice that speaks only in your head. The quality of those players is what I question. Last year's defense also suffered more significant injuries to key players than the offense, Bowman in particular.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

In my opinion, they have no plan.

This is the line that cracked me up.

Not only did they have a plan, I outlined what I thought they'd do and they followed it to a T: The Plan - Post #785

Not only did they have a plan, they executed it very well AND they only had a couple months as a unit to put it all together. If you can't figure out what the plan was, that speaks more to your acumen as a football fan than anything.

Originally posted by NinerSickness:

Originally posted by BOI49er:

How can you discount the thought Cousins will play better under Kyle, when Every quarterback does, and Kyle's offense is clearly a match for Kirk's skill set?

That's why I say he's an Ok / decent QB. Do you know how passionately Niners' fans defended Jeff Garcia as a good QB? They were delusional. He was a "meh" QB. Just like Kirk.

It's better to have a QB who sucks out loud than a QB who's "meh" because at least you KNOW the sucky QB needs to be replaced. The latter will stick around for years like a wart.

That didn't answer my question.

Only five men in NFL history have thrown for 5,000 yards in a season, the first going back to 1984, and only one more than once. Last season, Kirk Cousins threw for 4,917 yards. If Kyle Shanahan makes him any better at all, as he does with his quarterbacks every single year, Cousins will clearly be in this elite club.

Who the heck do you want?

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

I'm so naive I don't listen to the voice in your head telling you that Shanahan calls the shots. The number of FA signings is immaterial. And I never said the offense was forgotten. Again, that voice that speaks only in your head. The quality of those players is what I question. Last year's defense also suffered more significant injuries to key players than the offense, Bowman in particular.

Don't need a voice in my head to know that the hot HC candidate would have more pull with the organization after 3 years with 3 HC fires versus the first time GM who got the job because the HC liked the idea of working with him.

The idea that Lynch just wants to draft defense because he's a defensive player which is what you were implying is just lazy and dumb.

Who were these amazing free agents on offense that were available that we passed on? Maclin and Decker weren't available until after the draft was over. Who are we cutting for them and why? Who's to say they want to come here?

Which big time OL free agent did we miss out on? We were very active in free agency and most of our signings were on offense. The strength of this draft was the defense. It's a smart move to draft based on the strength of the draft vs the strength of your team...just so happened that our defense was historically poor so it worked both ways.

Fact is you need a lot more talent on defense to get legit production out of that unit. One weak link can break things and give the offense a target to pick on. On offense you can scheme around lesser talent and still get production.

Kyle knows a thing or two about offense and scheming guys open. We signed offensive free agents familiar with his system or who fit his system.

Once again I ask...who should we have signed to make you think Lynch wasn't "skewed to a fault to the defense"?

And lmfao comparing Baalke and Lynch as playing DB. First of all Lynch is a HOF candidate. Baalke played for friggin Bemidji State...let's not compare the two please.

The whole reason for the hire would be that the two guys would collaborate together and make decisions together but let's be honest...if Kyle wanted someone he'd get someone. Joe Williams pick says just that. To go from not being on the board at all to trading up for him says what Kyle wants. Kyle gets.

Originally posted by BOI49er:

That didn't answer my question.

Only five men in NFL history have thrown for 5,000 yards in a season, the first going back to 1984, and only one more than once. Last season, Kirk Cousins threw for 4,917 yards. If Kyle Shanahan makes him any better at all, as he does with his quarterbacks every single year, Cousins will clearly be in this elite club.

Who the heck do you want?

Yards aren't exciting. We all know Cousins will never ever win the Super Bowl while Mitchell Trubisky will have like 5 when he's done. Find me a guy who can win Superbowls and then we'll talk.