Injuries - 9-Year Analysis

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Kyle's scheme is very explosive, but it uses up a lot of OLinemen. My preference for depth is depth at the Tackle position. If you have good depth at tackle, you satisfy the left tackle issue if Trent goes down. The Starting Right Tackle can also move to the Left Tackle position, if he's a legitimate starter. Same with Center, if Mack goes, then one of the Starting Guards can shift to center as a backup to Mack. Now the depth player (trained at tackle) can be plugged in at Guard respectively. Personally, I think the Guard position is really dependent on the Tackles in pass protections because the best speed rushers are usually put on either OT's, and it's the stunts and dogs where the Guard and the Tackle have to switch when the new guy is being plugged in and doesn't have those reps with the starting tackles. All the guards have to do is be is able to clog the pass rush lanes to protect the QB, if the team has a good pair of Tackles.

Having said all that, you have very limited draft capital, and one of the things that ShanaLynch have done very well is getting those day three gems. Those day three gems save cap space because they don't have to spend a big chunk of cap space (for example) on a free agent RB when you have Mitchell. That cap space can be used for a young and promising up coming OLineman that will be paid above average because he has above average (but not elite) talent, that hopefully, can be developed to be an elite player.

Ultimately, the bottom line is good player evaluation, and if you don't have good player evaluation, you have to depend a lot on free agency and trades to restock your team that has been pillaged by bottom feeding teams robbing your young talented depth (Laken, Arden Key, DJ Jones, Mostert - for example).

Your last point,, altho self evident, is truly an excellent one, Giedi. We all know that we lose great talent to other teams when draft picks at the bottom of the list end up being excellent players who end up starters, but were chosen from a group of players we didn't expect to become that talented. And, therefore, at end of 3 or 4 yr contract, they earn themselves into the upper echelon of pay amongst players.

I don't recall anyone making this point before and it works out for us like kind of planned obsolesence….ie , we thot they were lower tier, and then they breakout and become upper tier, giving us 2, maybe 3 yrs of top flite play, but then move on when contract expires, because they have proven themselves to be well above where they were drafted.

In a way, we get penalized for making great choices in lower rds, and then after 2-3 yrs have to do it all over again…or add yet another top dollar player to the elite payroll. The only answer here is to continue to draft several , maybe 2, 3 or 4 guys each draft who are terrific talents but just haven't shown it yet.

Nobody aside from you has made a point of that to my knowledge but it is sitting right there for all to see. And it is here, as you mention above, that Kyle and JL have had to not depend solely on past college performance, but where is the Mostert-MItchell-DJJones "football heart" in these lower rd draftees?
It doesn't show up on film and hence film junkies like kyle can't see the unseen desire , (perhaps), in these lower rd picks.

A final plaudit for your "workout warrior" comment. I've read it before, but after thinking back to Jerry and Roger, it is true. When those guys worked out yr round, (and ruggedly so), the team as a whole always seemed to :"miraculously" be healthy. If THAT is what it takes to keep a team from ending up "Most injured" every yr, then we not only should look for players like that in FA/trade/draft, KS and JL should be encouraging the team as a whole to become of that mindset.

Yeah, it sucks to lose good talent that you have developed. Sucks to lose guys like McDaniel, Lefleur, and Mostert, Laken and Arden Key.

But those are the new rules, at least we got 5 Lombardy's out of the old rules. The game seems to have become even more popular since the rules changes and the emphasis on passing nowadays.

It's still possible to have a dynasty, but not like the dominating dynasties of old. You have the Patriots as an example of good drafting and development and trades. Drafting well and developing well does save on the cap space. Everybody knows about Trey's rookie cap space savings - vs Jimmy, for example. You can, in a sense, hold on to a guy like Jimmy because guys like Deebo (on their rookie contract), Aiyuk, Mitchell, etc... are also on their rookie contract. In other words, having guys in their rookie contract saves cap space. It's a no brainer, but usually we think of a blue chip QB as a cap space saver, and not guys like Deebo, Mitchell, and Aiyuk on their rookie contracts.

Workout Warrior ethos, I actually got that from you, when you said that Fatigue does correlate with injuries. So actually Kudos to you. Got any more ideas we can pass to the Strength and conditioning guys? But yeah, I'd like to see the 49ers get back to that kind of workout warrior culture that they had so much of in the past. The obstacles to that may be the fact that you don't have year round coaching anymore. The rules (I think) forbid the coaches from working out the players regularly in the offseason, but hopefully the players themselves can motivate themselves to have that kind of ethos.

^^^Thx, Random, as i had neatly put that in the "Fuggedaboudit" past. 1st time HC , 1st time GM, shidddy team , virtually no talent, and a kid with the million dollar smile, and even better had just batted 1000 on the Jon Gruden coaches' chalkboard. Gruden grilled Reuben on live TV and gave him every sneaky situation he could think of and for every one, Reuben was fantastic. He answered every question w/r/to where should he be in this situation, or that? The kid knew 'em all. It was the best Q/A chalkboard Gruden ever did and Reuben never missed a step, plus he did it as soon as Gruden finished the question. It was an amazing performance, the best of any QB, or any other player I've ever seen. Reuben was sensational. The kid knew football LBer and when and where to be in any situation. On the field…he was always where the ball was.

BUTTTTTTTTT……1st yr for GM/HC (they were both green), an incredible football talent…slips to #31 , and JL leaps with Kyle's ok. Only later did we find out he was haywire upstairs, and the shoulder issue was not a minor one. Add to that the now dead giveaway of the combine, when Reuben got kicked out (has that ever happened before?), and the story went that he verbally abused a lowly xray tech at the hospital where everybody underwent their medical exams and testing. I knew about that before draft and chose to discount it. But in retrospect, i knew …the prize was just so fantastic, that I chose to ignore the flags…as in Red ones.

Fast forward, and now JL would NEVER make that mistake again, and surely his and Kyle's thots must have gone somewhat along the line as mine. It's not an excuse, more than HOW it happened…and obviously, never should have. Glad you reposted that tho, Random, as a reminder . It was a very, very expensive mistake, and none of us around for it will ever forget it.

You posted this, however, in the "49ers lead league in injuries last 9 yrs" thread, as a reminder, that injuries just cannot be overlooked as was done with Reuben. The combine, thing , however, should have been the death knell for anyone taking Reuben in anything but 6th or 7th round. Ignoring the injury PLUS the "mental" thing, was disastrous. And …we paid for it. Did we ever.

There is a difference here , an uncommon one, with Turay and his broken ankle. Yes it was an injury. But he also, came back last yr with 5.5 sacks, hurries , TFLs ,etc. Basically, for a yr anyway, he has proven that he can play and at a high level. This isn't a Frank Gore story, but same type of result. So for Turay, yeah, I'd rather he not have had the ankle , but since he has had a good yr of recovery with good results, this is an injury "exception", altho not of the Frank Gore importance. Still, it is a whole lot better than a Verrett, or Dee Ford, or Hurd, or McKinnon, or Pettis story. Here, at least, we got a guy who had a broken ankle, rehabbed and then had a fairly decent yr. So in this one case, I'm okay with it.

Overall, tho , i am dead set against moneyball, or pre-existing injury players… unless they have a yr or more proven high end production and no lengthy loss of playing time.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Kyle's scheme is very explosive, but it uses up a lot of OLinemen. My preference for depth is depth at the Tackle position. If you have good depth at tackle, you satisfy the left tackle issue if Trent goes down. The Starting Right Tackle can also move to the Left Tackle position, if he's a legitimate starter. Same with Center, if Mack goes, then one of the Starting Guards can shift to center as a backup to Mack. Now the depth player (trained at tackle) can be plugged in at Guard respectively. Personally, I think the Guard position is really dependent on the Tackles in pass protections because the best speed rushers are usually put on either OT's, and it's the stunts and dogs where the Guard and the Tackle have to switch when the new guy is being plugged in and doesn't have those reps with the starting tackles. All the guards have to do is be is able to clog the pass rush lanes to protect the QB, if the team has a good pair of Tackles.

Having said all that, you have very limited draft capital, and one of the things that ShanaLynch have done very well is getting those day three gems. Those day three gems save cap space because they don't have to spend a big chunk of cap space (for example) on a free agent RB when you have Mitchell. That cap space can be used for a young and promising up coming OLineman that will be paid above average because he has above average (but not elite) talent, that hopefully, can be developed to be an elite player.

Ultimately, the bottom line is good player evaluation, and if you don't have good player evaluation, you have to depend a lot on free agency and trades to restock your team that has been pillaged by bottom feeding teams robbing your young talented depth (Laken, Arden Key, DJ Jones, Mostert - for example).

Your last point,, altho self evident, is truly an excellent one, Giedi. We all know that we lose great talent to other teams when draft picks at the bottom of the list end up being excellent players who end up starters, but were chosen from a group of players we didn't expect to become that talented. And, therefore, at end of 3 or 4 yr contract, they earn themselves into the upper echelon of pay amongst players.

I don't recall anyone making this point before and it works out for us like kind of planned obsolesence….ie , we thot they were lower tier, and then they breakout and become upper tier, giving us 2, maybe 3 yrs of top flite play, but then move on when contract expires, because they have proven themselves to be well above where they were drafted.

In a way, we get penalized for making great choices in lower rds, and then after 2-3 yrs have to do it all over again…or add yet another top dollar player to the elite payroll. The only answer here is to continue to draft several , maybe 2, 3 or 4 guys each draft who are terrific talents but just haven't shown it yet.

Nobody aside from you has made a point of that to my knowledge but it is sitting right there for all to see. And it is here, as you mention above, that Kyle and JL have had to not depend solely on past college performance, but where is the Mostert-MItchell-DJJones "football heart" in these lower rd draftees?
It doesn't show up on film and hence film junkies like kyle can't see the unseen desire , (perhaps), in these lower rd picks.

A final plaudit for your "workout warrior" comment. I've read it before, but after thinking back to Jerry and Roger, it is true. When those guys worked out yr round, (and ruggedly so), the team as a whole always seemed to :"miraculously" be healthy. If THAT is what it takes to keep a team from ending up "Most injured" every yr, then we not only should look for players like that in FA/trade/draft, KS and JL should be encouraging the team as a whole to become of that mindset.

Yeah, it sucks to lose good talent that you have developed. Sucks to lose guys like McDaniel, Lefleur, and Mostert, Laken and Arden Key.

But those are the new rules, at least we got 5 Lombardy's out of the old rules. The game seems to have become even more popular since the rules changes and the emphasis on passing nowadays.

It's still possible to have a dynasty, but not like the dominating dynasties of old. You have the Patriots as an example of good drafting and development and trades. Drafting well and developing well does save on the cap space. Everybody knows about Trey's rookie cap space savings - vs Jimmy, for example. You can, in a sense, hold on to a guy like Jimmy because guys like Deebo (on their rookie contract), Aiyuk, Mitchell, etc... are also on their rookie contract. In other words, having guys in their rookie contract saves cap space. It's a no brainer, but usually we think of a blue chip QB as a cap space saver, and not guys like Deebo, Mitchell, and Aiyuk on their rookie contracts.

Workout Warrior ethos, I actually got that from you, when you said that Fatigue does correlate with injuries. So actually Kudos to you. Got any more ideas we can pass to the Strength and conditioning guys? But yeah, I'd like to see the 49ers get back to that kind of workout warrior culture that they had so much of in the past. The obstacles to that may be the fact that you don't have year round coaching anymore. The rules (I think) forbid the coaches from working out the players regularly in the offseason, but hopefully the players themselves can motivate themselves to have that kind of ethos.

Giedi, you are kinda hard to keep up with, with some mighty good ideas above. One thing overlooked but of interest was your suggesting a payroll cut or however it could be worked out, for coming into camp overweight. My favorite player some 7-8 yrs ago was the later rd pick of a huge LT in (another) Trent, tho he was anything but best OT in the league, or even near that. He was just a huge guy, who liked to eat and did well in man blocking. He was just hard to get around and …he had good hands. But once KS/JL arrived, his time here was done, as a big overweight kid just couldn' t make it in Kyle's ZBS. Went to the PATS on a 1 yr show me, got a SB ring and ended up in Raidersville, but conditioning wasn't his thing and he went downhill.

Bring this up because now, in retrospect, it seems that ANYONE who comes in out of shape , should be given the door. Maybe put it in the contract, if you aren't in shape, contract is voided. That's just a wild reach, wouldn't work for 3 or 4 reasons, but still , like you, there should be something we could do that WOULD work. Otherwise, would be interested in a psychiatrist taking a swing at this , with some kind of mental testing, probably interviewing by a psychiatrist that might just pick up what kyle cannot see on tape. If a kid has it, somebody ought to be able to pick it out ….somehow. Also, if the psychiatrist is top flite, i would suspect he would have picked up on the other Reuben Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde we didn't know about.. Would have saved us a lot of grief, but really with Reuben, some of us, coaches included , just ignored what was always there and in plain sight.

Perhaps our need is for a "Mind doc" to interview those draftees who would be in later 3rd day picks, to see if he could separate out the wheat from the chafe. Again, this is probably not doable, because of time constraints, the actual carrying it out being mostly impossible, or whatever. Probably we will just go on as we have last 5 yrs, getting good players on tape, interviewing them for "extra heart" or whatever you call it, and doing best we can.

My recollection of during the low-light years 2000 to 2016, is that we didn't come up with a lot of Mitchells, DJJones, Kittle, Mosterts, in those bad years, whereas now, we seem to be getting them in drips and drabs. Even so, drips and drabs is not that bad when one looks at the talent of last 5 yrs under JL and Kyle. And even if there is only 1 or 2 "drip or drab" in the draft from rd 6,7, or UDFA, that is just "found money". The fact we can do it at all is fantastic, if we get a starter that late. It's still hard to believe Mitchell.

Maybe Kyle's "film" doesn't pick up some of the late rd guys who later become Mostert, DJJ, Mitchell, but when you look back at the last couple yrs, one would have to say between Kyle's film and the scouting pros/EVP/GM/coaches et al, they have done a bang up job when you compare to rest of league. Whatever they are doing , I'd just say keep it coming.

why can't we just lock this thread already. I hate seeing it. It's done nothing but harm since its inception.

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
why can't we just lock this thread already. I hate seeing it. It's done nothing but harm since its inception.

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
why can't we just lock this thread already. I hate seeing it. It's done nothing but harm since its inception.

So we have found the real reason for the injuries. Good. Now we can all get some sleep.

Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
why can't we just lock this thread already. I hate seeing it. It's done nothing but harm since its inception.

So we have found the real reason for the injuries. Good. Now we can all get some sleep.

Haha. If anything, I was years late to starting this thread (2017). The injury issue started (2013) long before I created this thread.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Kyle's scheme is very explosive, but it uses up a lot of OLinemen. My preference for depth is depth at the Tackle position. If you have good depth at tackle, you satisfy the left tackle issue if Trent goes down. The Starting Right Tackle can also move to the Left Tackle position, if he's a legitimate starter. Same with Center, if Mack goes, then one of the Starting Guards can shift to center as a backup to Mack. Now the depth player (trained at tackle) can be plugged in at Guard respectively. Personally, I think the Guard position is really dependent on the Tackles in pass protections because the best speed rushers are usually put on either OT's, and it's the stunts and dogs where the Guard and the Tackle have to switch when the new guy is being plugged in and doesn't have those reps with the starting tackles. All the guards have to do is be is able to clog the pass rush lanes to protect the QB, if the team has a good pair of Tackles.

Having said all that, you have very limited draft capital, and one of the things that ShanaLynch have done very well is getting those day three gems. Those day three gems save cap space because they don't have to spend a big chunk of cap space (for example) on a free agent RB when you have Mitchell. That cap space can be used for a young and promising up coming OLineman that will be paid above average because he has above average (but not elite) talent, that hopefully, can be developed to be an elite player.

Ultimately, the bottom line is good player evaluation, and if you don't have good player evaluation, you have to depend a lot on free agency and trades to restock your team that has been pillaged by bottom feeding teams robbing your young talented depth (Laken, Arden Key, DJ Jones, Mostert - for example).

Your last point,, altho self evident, is truly an excellent one, Giedi. We all know that we lose great talent to other teams when draft picks at the bottom of the list end up being excellent players who end up starters, but were chosen from a group of players we didn't expect to become that talented. And, therefore, at end of 3 or 4 yr contract, they earn themselves into the upper echelon of pay amongst players.

I don't recall anyone making this point before and it works out for us like kind of planned obsolesence….ie , we thot they were lower tier, and then they breakout and become upper tier, giving us 2, maybe 3 yrs of top flite play, but then move on when contract expires, because they have proven themselves to be well above where they were drafted.

In a way, we get penalized for making great choices in lower rds, and then after 2-3 yrs have to do it all over again…or add yet another top dollar player to the elite payroll. The only answer here is to continue to draft several , maybe 2, 3 or 4 guys each draft who are terrific talents but just haven't shown it yet.

Nobody aside from you has made a point of that to my knowledge but it is sitting right there for all to see. And it is here, as you mention above, that Kyle and JL have had to not depend solely on past college performance, but where is the Mostert-MItchell-DJJones "football heart" in these lower rd draftees?
It doesn't show up on film and hence film junkies like kyle can't see the unseen desire , (perhaps), in these lower rd picks.

A final plaudit for your "workout warrior" comment. I've read it before, but after thinking back to Jerry and Roger, it is true. When those guys worked out yr round, (and ruggedly so), the team as a whole always seemed to :"miraculously" be healthy. If THAT is what it takes to keep a team from ending up "Most injured" every yr, then we not only should look for players like that in FA/trade/draft, KS and JL should be encouraging the team as a whole to become of that mindset.

Yeah, it sucks to lose good talent that you have developed. Sucks to lose guys like McDaniel, Lefleur, and Mostert, Laken and Arden Key.

But those are the new rules, at least we got 5 Lombardy's out of the old rules. The game seems to have become even more popular since the rules changes and the emphasis on passing nowadays.

It's still possible to have a dynasty, but not like the dominating dynasties of old. You have the Patriots as an example of good drafting and development and trades. Drafting well and developing well does save on the cap space. Everybody knows about Trey's rookie cap space savings - vs Jimmy, for example. You can, in a sense, hold on to a guy like Jimmy because guys like Deebo (on their rookie contract), Aiyuk, Mitchell, etc... are also on their rookie contract. In other words, having guys in their rookie contract saves cap space. It's a no brainer, but usually we think of a blue chip QB as a cap space saver, and not guys like Deebo, Mitchell, and Aiyuk on their rookie contracts.

Workout Warrior ethos, I actually got that from you, when you said that Fatigue does correlate with injuries. So actually Kudos to you. Got any more ideas we can pass to the Strength and conditioning guys? But yeah, I'd like to see the 49ers get back to that kind of workout warrior culture that they had so much of in the past. The obstacles to that may be the fact that you don't have year round coaching anymore. The rules (I think) forbid the coaches from working out the players regularly in the offseason, but hopefully the players themselves can motivate themselves to have that kind of ethos.

Giedi, you are kinda hard to keep up with, with some mighty good ideas above. One thing overlooked but of interest was your suggesting a payroll cut or however it could be worked out, for coming into camp overweight. My favorite player some 7-8 yrs ago was the later rd pick of a huge LT in (another) Trent, tho he was anything but best OT in the league, or even near that. He was just a huge guy, who liked to eat and did well in man blocking. He was just hard to get around and …he had good hands. But once KS/JL arrived, his time here was done, as a big overweight kid just couldn' t make it in Kyle's ZBS. Went to the PATS on a 1 yr show me, got a SB ring and ended up in Raidersville, but conditioning wasn't his thing and he went downhill.

Bring this up because now, in retrospect, it seems that ANYONE who comes in out of shape , should be given the door. Maybe put it in the contract, if you aren't in shape, contract is voided. That's just a wild reach, wouldn't work for 3 or 4 reasons, but still , like you, there should be something we could do that WOULD work. Otherwise, would be interested in a psychiatrist taking a swing at this , with some kind of mental testing, probably interviewing by a psychiatrist that might just pick up what kyle cannot see on tape. If a kid has it, somebody ought to be able to pick it out ….somehow. Also, if the psychiatrist is top flite, i would suspect he would have picked up on the other Reuben Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde we didn't know about.. Would have saved us a lot of grief, but really with Reuben, some of us, coaches included , just ignored what was always there and in plain sight.

Perhaps our need is for a "Mind doc" to interview those draftees who would be in later 3rd day picks, to see if he could separate out the wheat from the chafe. Again, this is probably not doable, because of time constraints, the actual carrying it out being mostly impossible, or whatever. Probably we will just go on as we have last 5 yrs, getting good players on tape, interviewing them for "extra heart" or whatever you call it, and doing best we can.

My recollection of during the low-light years 2000 to 2016, is that we didn't come up with a lot of Mitchells, DJJones, Kittle, Mosterts, in those bad years, whereas now, we seem to be getting them in drips and drabs. Even so, drips and drabs is not that bad when one looks at the talent of last 5 yrs under JL and Kyle. And even if there is only 1 or 2 "drip or drab" in the draft from rd 6,7, or UDFA, that is just "found money". The fact we can do it at all is fantastic, if we get a starter that late. It's still hard to believe Mitchell.

Maybe Kyle's "film" doesn't pick up some of the late rd guys who later become Mostert, DJJ, Mitchell, but when you look back at the last couple yrs, one would have to say between Kyle's film and the scouting pros/EVP/GM/coaches et al, they have done a bang up job when you compare to rest of league. Whatever they are doing , I'd just say keep it coming.

Yup, the emphasis on workout warrior-ness doesn't seem to be emphasized in most NFL contracts (or at least in Paraag's contracts) the way TD's, Sacks, making all-pro, interceptions, and passing yards. In other words, being a workout-warrior is kind of vague and indefinite, versus measurables as yards per carry, or yards per catch etc... But I do know that the Patriots measure your 50 yards times, every year to see if you have deteriorated in speed. I believe they also measure other conditioning/athletic metrics like flexibility very year. I believe they also measure how far Tom can throw the ball every year, how fast he runs, his flexibility, his 3-cone drill, the height of his jumps, every year. I would think they would measure every player on the Patriots team, not just Tom, and more likely than not have a mention of that stuff in their player contracts and probably award significant money towards achieving those conditioning measurables.

Why not get some workout-warrior measurables like conditioning, strength, and put those more in the contracts vs just saying you worked out during the year, and you showed up at your assigned weight. If being in condition is so important, then the coaching and conditioning staff should reward players for working out all year with much more money -- and with more specificity like how the Patriots seem to measure their player's physical talents every year.

It goes back to the idea of a big part of ability -- is *availability*.

As for employing a psychologist - Walsh did that, I believe, with Dr. Harry Edwards who was a sociologist and as well as - I think - he had a background in psychology. He was one of the most renowned and pre-eminent professors at Cal.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerPrideinNJ:
why can't we just lock this thread already. I hate seeing it. It's done nothing but harm since its inception.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Yup, the emphasis on workout warrior-ness doesn't seem to be emphasized in most NFL contracts (or at least in Paraag's contracts) the way TD's, Sacks, making all-pro, interceptions, and passing yards. In other words, being a workout-warrior is kind of vague and indefinite, versus measurables as yards per carry, or yards per catch etc... But I do know that the Patriots measure your 50 yards times, every year to see if you have deteriorated in speed. I believe they also measure other conditioning/athletic metrics like flexibility very year. I believe they also measure how far Tom can throw the ball every year, how fast he runs, his flexibility, his 3-cone drill, the height of his jumps, every year. I would think they would measure every player on the Patriots team, not just Tom, and more likely than not have a mention of that stuff in their player contracts and probably award significant money towards achieving those conditioning measurables.

Why not get some workout-warrior measurables like conditioning, strength, and put those more in the contracts vs just saying you worked out during the year, and you showed up at your assigned weight. If being in condition is so important, then the coaching and conditioning staff should reward players for working out all year with much more money -- and with more specificity like how the Patriots seem to measure their player's physical talents every year.

It goes back to the idea of a big part of ability -- is *availability*.

As for employing a psychologist - Walsh did that, I believe, with Dr. Harry Edwards who was a sociologist and as well as - I think - he had a background in psychology. He was one of the most renowned and pre-eminent professors at Cal.

I never really knew what Dr Edwards did, but then again, psychologists and psychiatrists are never going to tell you what they are doing or with whom. That being said, this is sure a time when a Dr Edwards would be nice to have around to be able to sit down with Deebo and hear what his complaints are, and to get them righted.

Maybe we do have someone and i just don't know it. …but here, yes we could use all the help we can get. This is a knotty problem and it is going to take someone with a lot of knowledge to get this back on the rails.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Yup, the emphasis on workout warrior-ness doesn't seem to be emphasized in most NFL contracts (or at least in Paraag's contracts) the way TD's, Sacks, making all-pro, interceptions, and passing yards. In other words, being a workout-warrior is kind of vague and indefinite, versus measurables as yards per carry, or yards per catch etc... But I do know that the Patriots measure your 50 yards times, every year to see if you have deteriorated in speed. I believe they also measure other conditioning/athletic metrics like flexibility very year. I believe they also measure how far Tom can throw the ball every year, how fast he runs, his flexibility, his 3-cone drill, the height of his jumps, every year. I would think they would measure every player on the Patriots team, not just Tom, and more likely than not have a mention of that stuff in their player contracts and probably award significant money towards achieving those conditioning measurables.

Why not get some workout-warrior measurables like conditioning, strength, and put those more in the contracts vs just saying you worked out during the year, and you showed up at your assigned weight. If being in condition is so important, then the coaching and conditioning staff should reward players for working out all year with much more money -- and with more specificity like how the Patriots seem to measure their player's physical talents every year.

It goes back to the idea of a big part of ability -- is *availability*.

As for employing a psychologist - Walsh did that, I believe, with Dr. Harry Edwards who was a sociologist and as well as - I think - he had a background in psychology. He was one of the most renowned and pre-eminent professors at Cal.

I never really knew what Dr Edwards did, but then again, psychologists and psychiatrists are never going to tell you what they are doing or with whom. That being said, this is sure a time when a Dr Edwards would be nice to have around to be able to sit down with Deebo and hear what his complaints are, and to get them righted.

Maybe we do have someone and i just don't know it. …but here, yes we could use all the help we can get. This is a knotty problem and it is going to take someone with a lot of knowledge to get this back on the rails.

Agree. I think (back in Walsh's days) a young African American jumping from the inner slums of America to the pinnacle of NFL wealth and influence, is a jarring experience. He helped a lot of players and coaches to make good decisions. He was a father figure to a lot of them, and in a sense, from a psychological point of view -- enabled guys (for example) like a Tony Dungy or Ray Rhoads to make good decisions with their lives. The whole Walsh coaching fellowship is now NFL wide and expanding internationally, I think our Young OLIneman - Gutierrez - is a reflection of that.

One thing that Dr. Harry Edwards helped A TON, was to *exclude* draftable players based on their background. In other words, Harry had a strict set of criteria as to who the 49ers should - and more importantly *SHOULD NOT* -- draft from a psychological/sociological point of view. One thing that stuck with me was him saying in an old interview - any commitment of a *felony* by a young NFL draftee should automatically exclude him from being drafted by the 49ers. He listed a whole bunch of other criteria, in that interview but that one stuck with me.

A Dr. Harry Edwards 2.0 might be able to help Kyle weed out guys who wouldn't be able to handle the NFL pressure and high intensity culture from the git go. Maybe avoid guys like Pettis or Reuben Foster from the beginning. I'm thinking of a Dr. Harry Edwards 2.0 that would help Kyle safely draft very talented players with a more sketchy past than regular gold helmeted players, and maybe have the dual function of being a mentor/life coach to make sure these young millionaire athletes stay in shape and preserve their primary asset to make wealth, which is their bodies. A lot of these young NFL rookies got by with talent in college vs good conditioning work habits, but possibly with some sort of life coaching - develop their life habits on self development, which includes long term physical development. It will make developed players (like Brieda and Bourne, for example) much more valuable to other teams because of their ability to stay productive despite moving to another team with a different scheme.

^^^thx for info on Dr. Edwards. I never actually heard him speak, or read a quote. It was always someone else complimenting him…and that is a good trait for someone given that responsibility.

Change the Title to Always Injured, Injuries analysis.

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
Change the Title to Always Injured, Injuries analysis.

I mean, I'd try everything at this point to reverse this annual trend! Loooooooooooong overdue.

Everyone is prepared for The annual two key players to tear MCLs during OTAs, right.