Preseason 2017: 49ers vs Broncos

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Thanks for taking the time to put this together, NC. Only thing i see that really got my attn was Darrel Williams, 4 plays. That doesn't sound like someone making the 53...unless they already have him penciled in. Or as Smokes suggested, they want to "hide" him for stashing on PS. I guess it could be any of those, but really, it sounded like a nite for geting good looks at guys on the bubble. And Williams doesn't look like he'll be there. As long as magnuson makes it, I'll be happy. Williams is more a project....Magnus could actually help us this yr.

I drew that same conclusion. Williams Jr. certainly earned the right to run with the 2's like Magnuson but only 4 snaps? Next week's snap counts for him will tell you all you need to know...goal is to stash him or let him play and see if he performs better than Theus and make the 53. Garnett's injury muddies this a bit.

Seattle needs tackles. Theyre not stealing s**t this year. Trade every guy to the Broncos if you have to

Id trade them Zane for somen.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Seattle needs tackles. Theyre not stealing s**t this year. Trade every guy to the Broncos if you have to

Id trade them Zane for somen.

I don't know. Wilson looks good. His quickness is at a RB level so he can quickly dodge the pass rush and get reset in a split second. He has better receiving talent this year as well and SEA first 3 running backs are legit.

I just get frustrated that teams repeatedly let him find the seams and the slants on his very few timing throws.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Seattle needs tackles. Theyre not stealing s**t this year. Trade every guy to the Broncos if you have to

Id trade them Zane for somen.

I don't know. Wilson looks good. His quickness is at a RB level so he can quickly dodge the pass rush and get reset in a split second. He has better receiving talent this year as well and SEA first 3 running backs are legit.

I just get frustrated that teams repeatedly let him find the seams and the slants on his very few timing throws.

Let them play backyard ball... s**t only gets you so far especially in that system where i believe Wilson is actually being held back. Same with Cam but well see this year.

Originally posted by Joecool:

The truth:

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/49ers-14-broncos-33-grades/

Giving the coaches a D is pretty harsh considering it was stupid turnovers that changed this game. The offensive game was working in the first half and actually ended up with more yardage than the Broncos. To me, the poor performance was more on the players.

Originally posted by Fanaticofnfl:

Originally posted by Joecool:

The truth:

http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/49ers-14-broncos-33-grades/

Giving the coaches a D is pretty harsh considering it was stupid turnovers that changed this game. The offensive game was working in the first half and actually ended up with more yardage than the Broncos. To me, the poor performance was more on the players.

Yeah, coaches want to put players in tough situations in preseason and don't game plan, what are they evaluating?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SoCold:
That's a lot of words about snap counts. lol Didn't read it all.

When you have 4 TO in the first half snap counts don't mean much. Offensive guys should have double the snaps without the turnovers and defensive guys should have a lot less. Vance only had 9 because he took himself out of the game after a big shot he took. Came back in for another play then left again. Injuries and outcome of plays dictate snap counts.

Kyle said he wanted the young guys to watch the vet RBs. Has nothing to do with seeing enough of them.

I suggest you read the Q/A with Kyle. He talks about breaking down the film after the fact.

Haha...I don't blame you for not reading. Another poster asked what I may have seen as as result of snap counts this week compared to last.

Yeah, clearly they were trying to get some looks for the veterans and injured players coming back. I'm sure the young ones weren't impressed. Haha.

I said I didn't read it all because I didn't need to read the snap counts. lol

This was your opening statement.

Snap counts are an excellent way to SEE what the coaches were trying to achieve in the game and find out which players they were "trying out."

That's what I disagreed with. Game situations dictate the snap counts. Not the coaches.

Kittle played more because Vance took himself out of the game. It's not like the coaches said hey I'm gonna get this guy twice as many snaps as the other guy.

4 turnovers dictated how many plays were run in the first half.

Hoyer was taken out right before the half. Not because of snap counts. Because Kyle wanted to see CJ in the two min drill.

Barkley only had 4 snaps because he fumbled on his 4th snap and didn't get the ball back because they scored on a KR TD. I'm sure Kyle would have liked to see him get a couple long drives in. So again his snap count means nothing.

You've put a lot of stock in snap counts the last few years. Not sure why? Maybe because tiny spreed sheets?

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SoCold:

That's a lot of words about snap counts. lol Didn't read it all.

When you have 4 TO in the first half snap counts don't mean much. Offensive guys should have double the snaps without the turnovers and defensive guys should have a lot less. Vance only had 9 because he took himself out of the game after a big shot he took. Came back in for another play then left again. Injuries and outcome of plays dictate snap counts.

Kyle said he wanted the young guys to watch the vet RBs. Has nothing to do with seeing enough of them.

I suggest you read the Q/A with Kyle. He talks about breaking down the film after the fact.

Haha...I don't blame you for not reading. Another poster asked what I may have seen as as result of snap counts this week compared to last.

Yeah, clearly they were trying to get some looks for the veterans and injured players coming back. I'm sure the young ones weren't impressed. Haha.

I said I didn't read it all because I didn't need to read the snap counts. lol

This was your opening statement.

Snap counts are an excellent way to SEE what the coaches were trying to achieve in the game and find out which players they were "trying out."

That's what I disagreed with. Game situations dictate the snap counts. Not the coaches.

Kittle played more because Vance took himself out of the game. It's not like the coaches said hey I'm gonna get this guy twice as many snaps as the other guy.

4 turnovers dictated how many plays were run in the first half.

Hoyer was taken out right before the half. Not because of snap counts. Because Kyle wanted to see CJ in the two min drill.

Barkley only had 4 snaps because he fumbled on his 4th snap and didn't get the ball back because they scored on a KR TD. I'm sure Kyle would have liked to see him get a couple long drives in. So again his snap count means nothing.

You've put a lot of stock in snap counts the last few years. Not sure why? Maybe because tiny spreed sheets?

LMAO...yeah, tiny spreadsheets.

BTW agree on your points on snaps for pre season games. Obviously the coaches come in with a plan (I highlighted) but if there are 5 TO's and penalties killing drives, it pushes down the second level players for snaps.

But you can still see the plans as they correlate to snaps. Week 1 they wanted to get right to bubble players and youth and this week was reversed. Next week the snap counts will correlate more to the "starters." You can see certain players elevated too this week like Magnuson.

It's not the tell-all because of the context you added but it does help reveal the coaches goals each week.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SoCold:
That's a lot of words about snap counts. lol Didn't read it all.

When you have 4 TO in the first half snap counts don't mean much. Offensive guys should have double the snaps without the turnovers and defensive guys should have a lot less. Vance only had 9 because he took himself out of the game after a big shot he took. Came back in for another play then left again. Injuries and outcome of plays dictate snap counts.

Kyle said he wanted the young guys to watch the vet RBs. Has nothing to do with seeing enough of them.

I suggest you read the Q/A with Kyle. He talks about breaking down the film after the fact.

Haha...I don't blame you for not reading. Another poster asked what I may have seen as as result of snap counts this week compared to last.

Yeah, clearly they were trying to get some looks for the veterans and injured players coming back. I'm sure the young ones weren't impressed. Haha.

I said I didn't read it all because I didn't need to read the snap counts. lol

This was your opening statement.

Snap counts are an excellent way to SEE what the coaches were trying to achieve in the game and find out which players they were "trying out."

That's what I disagreed with. Game situations dictate the snap counts. Not the coaches.

Kittle played more because Vance took himself out of the game. It's not like the coaches said hey I'm gonna get this guy twice as many snaps as the other guy.

4 turnovers dictated how many plays were run in the first half.

Hoyer was taken out right before the half. Not because of snap counts. Because Kyle wanted to see CJ in the two min drill.

Barkley only had 4 snaps because he fumbled on his 4th snap and didn't get the ball back because they scored on a KR TD. I'm sure Kyle would have liked to see him get a couple long drives in. So again his snap count means nothing.

You've put a lot of stock in snap counts the last few years. Not sure why? Maybe because tiny spreed sheets?

LMAO...yeah, tiny spreadsheets.

BTW agree on your points on snaps for pre season games. Obviously the coaches come in with a plan (I highlighted) but if there are 5 TO's and penalties killing drives, it pushes down the second level players for snaps.

But you can still see the plans as they correlate to snaps. Week 1 they wanted to get right to bubble players and youth and this week was reversed. Next week the snap counts will correlate more to the "starters." You can see certain players elevated too this week like Magnuson.

It's not the tell-all because of the context you added but it does help reveal the coaches goals each week.

There's a common formula for pre season games.
Wk 1 - Starters play 1/2 series then backups.
Wk 2 - Starters play 1 half then backups.
Wk 3 - Starters play 1/2 series after half time after adjustments.
Wk 4 - Starers sit all backups play.

Coaches don't determine the number of plays run. The outcome of plays decide how many are run. Hoyer could have 30 snaps or 10 depending on how many times they have the ball in the time he's out there. It's not like Kyle is going to make Hoyer play in the 4th pre season game if he doesn't get enough snaps in the 3rd game. At least I hope he's not as dumb as Tomsula. lol

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SoCold:

That's a lot of words about snap counts. lol Didn't read it all.

When you have 4 TO in the first half snap counts don't mean much. Offensive guys should have double the snaps without the turnovers and defensive guys should have a lot less. Vance only had 9 because he took himself out of the game after a big shot he took. Came back in for another play then left again. Injuries and outcome of plays dictate snap counts.

Kyle said he wanted the young guys to watch the vet RBs. Has nothing to do with seeing enough of them.

I suggest you read the Q/A with Kyle. He talks about breaking down the film after the fact.

Haha...I don't blame you for not reading. Another poster asked what I may have seen as as result of snap counts this week compared to last.

Yeah, clearly they were trying to get some looks for the veterans and injured players coming back. I'm sure the young ones weren't impressed. Haha.

I said I didn't read it all because I didn't need to read the snap counts. lol

This was your opening statement.

Snap counts are an excellent way to SEE what the coaches were trying to achieve in the game and find out which players they were "trying out."

That's what I disagreed with. Game situations dictate the snap counts. Not the coaches.

Kittle played more because Vance took himself out of the game. It's not like the coaches said hey I'm gonna get this guy twice as many snaps as the other guy.

4 turnovers dictated how many plays were run in the first half.

Hoyer was taken out right before the half. Not because of snap counts. Because Kyle wanted to see CJ in the two min drill.

Barkley only had 4 snaps because he fumbled on his 4th snap and didn't get the ball back because they scored on a KR TD. I'm sure Kyle would have liked to see him get a couple long drives in. So again his snap count means nothing.

You've put a lot of stock in snap counts the last few years. Not sure why? Maybe because tiny spreed sheets?

LMAO...yeah, tiny spreadsheets.

BTW agree on your points on snaps for pre season games. Obviously the coaches come in with a plan (I highlighted) but if there are 5 TO's and penalties killing drives, it pushes down the second level players for snaps.

But you can still see the plans as they correlate to snaps. Week 1 they wanted to get right to bubble players and youth and this week was reversed. Next week the snap counts will correlate more to the "starters." You can see certain players elevated too this week like Magnuson.

It's not the tell-all because of the context you added but it does help reveal the coaches goals each week.

There's a common formula for pre season games.
Wk 1 - Starters play 1/2 series then backups.
Wk 2 - Starters play 1 half then backups.
Wk 3 - Starters play 1/2 series after half time after adjustments.
Wk 4 - Starers sit all backups play.

Coaches don't determine the number of plays run. The outcome of plays decide how many are run. Hoyer could have 30 snaps or 10 depending on how many times they have the ball in the time he's out there. It's not like Kyle is going to make Hoyer play in the 4th pre season game if he doesn't get enough snaps in the 3rd game. At least I hope he's not as dumb as Tomsula. lol

True on the theme. But they do set snaps going in generally too (general plan). Not always. Like Kyle said, he wanted to get the starters 20 snaps but that took almost the whole first half to get to because of the context you provided. Clearly, like Kyle said, they wanted the veterans to get more snaps this week which is why Hightower and Bibbs saw far more snaps than Williams and Breida this week. We might get hints into what the coaches are thinking based on snap counts too. For instance, Williams Jr. only got 4 snaps after playing excellent last week. Magnuson was elevated and got the most. So perhaps they view Garnett on the initial 53 and Magnuson making the 53 but want to hide Williams Jr. for the PS. I could be reading too much into it but with each game, the snaps typically reveal the general plan IMHO of who and what groups they want to review on film that week. The game context may screw it up or delay it though...like you noted.

Mods, close this puppy up, we are on to Minnesota.

Originally posted by mayo49:
Mods, close this puppy up, we are on to Minnesota.

doesn't work that way, mayo

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SoCold:
That's a lot of words about snap counts. lol Didn't read it all.

When you have 4 TO in the first half snap counts don't mean much. Offensive guys should have double the snaps without the turnovers and defensive guys should have a lot less. Vance only had 9 because he took himself out of the game after a big shot he took. Came back in for another play then left again. Injuries and outcome of plays dictate snap counts.

Kyle said he wanted the young guys to watch the vet RBs. Has nothing to do with seeing enough of them.

I suggest you read the Q/A with Kyle. He talks about breaking down the film after the fact.

Haha...I don't blame you for not reading. Another poster asked what I may have seen as as result of snap counts this week compared to last.

Yeah, clearly they were trying to get some looks for the veterans and injured players coming back. I'm sure the young ones weren't impressed. Haha.

I said I didn't read it all because I didn't need to read the snap counts. lol

This was your opening statement.

Snap counts are an excellent way to SEE what the coaches were trying to achieve in the game and find out which players they were "trying out."

That's what I disagreed with. Game situations dictate the snap counts. Not the coaches.

Kittle played more because Vance took himself out of the game. It's not like the coaches said hey I'm gonna get this guy twice as many snaps as the other guy.

4 turnovers dictated how many plays were run in the first half.

Hoyer was taken out right before the half. Not because of snap counts. Because Kyle wanted to see CJ in the two min drill.

Barkley only had 4 snaps because he fumbled on his 4th snap and didn't get the ball back because they scored on a KR TD. I'm sure Kyle would have liked to see him get a couple long drives in. So again his snap count means nothing.

You've put a lot of stock in snap counts the last few years. Not sure why? Maybe because tiny spreed sheets?

LMAO...yeah, tiny spreadsheets.

BTW agree on your points on snaps for pre season games. Obviously the coaches come in with a plan (I highlighted) but if there are 5 TO's and penalties killing drives, it pushes down the second level players for snaps.

But you can still see the plans as they correlate to snaps. Week 1 they wanted to get right to bubble players and youth and this week was reversed. Next week the snap counts will correlate more to the "starters." You can see certain players elevated too this week like Magnuson.

It's not the tell-all because of the context you added but it does help reveal the coaches goals each week.

There's a common formula for pre season games.
Wk 1 - Starters play 1/2 series then backups.
Wk 2 - Starters play 1 half then backups.
Wk 3 - Starters play 1/2 series after half time after adjustments.
Wk 4 - Starers sit all backups play.

Coaches don't determine the number of plays run. The outcome of plays decide how many are run. Hoyer could have 30 snaps or 10 depending on how many times they have the ball in the time he's out there. It's not like Kyle is going to make Hoyer play in the 4th pre season game if he doesn't get enough snaps in the 3rd game. At least I hope he's not as dumb as Tomsula. lol

True on the theme. But they do set snaps going in generally too (general plan). Not always. Like Kyle said, he wanted to get the starters 20 snaps but that took almost the whole first half to get to because of the context you provided. Clearly, like Kyle said, they wanted the veterans to get more snaps this week which is why Hightower and Bibbs saw far more snaps than Williams and Breida this week. We might get hints into what the coaches are thinking based on snap counts too. For instance, Williams Jr. only got 4 snaps after playing excellent last week. Magnuson was elevated and got the most. So perhaps they view Garnett on the initial 53 and Magnuson making the 53 but want to hide Williams Jr. for the PS. I could be reading too much into it but with each game, the snaps typically reveal the general plan IMHO of who and what groups they want to review on film that week. The game context may screw it up or delay it though...like you noted.

The bold is my entire point. Williams Jr running plays with the 3rd team OL and QB. Barkley coughed up the ball on his 4th play and the offense didn't get the ball back in the 4th Q. I'm sure Kyle wanted to see those players in the entire 4th quarter. All those players lost snap counts because of a turnover and ST touchdown. Those players could have had two 10 play drives and Williams Jr would have had 20 snaps instead of just 4. Has nothing to do with trying to hide him on the practice squad. lol

So my final point on this is just looking at snap count numbers means nothing without knowing the complete context of the game.

Originally posted by ChazBoner:

Originally posted by mayo49:
Mods, close this puppy up, we are on to Minnesota.

doesn't work that way, mayo

It just clutters up the board.

Originally posted by SoCold:

The bold is my entire point. Williams Jr running plays with the 3rd team OL and QB. Barkley coughed up the ball on his 4th play and the offense didn't get the ball back in the 4th Q. I'm sure Kyle wanted to see those players in the entire 4th quarter. All those players lost snap counts because of a turnover and ST touchdown. Those players could have had two 10 play drives and Williams Jr would have had 20 snaps instead of just 4. Has nothing to do with trying to hide him on the practice squad. lol

So my final point on this is just looking at snap count numbers means nothing without knowing the complete context of the game.

I gotcha man!!!

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
Seattle needs tackles. Theyre not stealing s**t this year. Trade every guy to the Broncos if you have to

Id trade them Zane for somen.

I don't know. Wilson looks good. His quickness is at a RB level so he can quickly dodge the pass rush and get reset in a split second. He has better receiving talent this year as well and SEA first 3 running backs are legit.

I just get frustrated that teams repeatedly let him find the seams and the slants on his very few timing throws.

Let them play backyard ball... s**t only gets you so far especially in that system where i believe Wilson is actually being held back. Same with Cam but well see this year.

That's the thing, when they don't play backyard ball, it seems like teams don't watch any film against them because Wilson repeatedly finds wide open seam and slant routes on his 1, 2 and 3 step drops.