Coaches Film Analysis: 2017 Season

Originally posted by thl408:

This is the keyframe right here when I thought the FS was flat footed and Goodwin was streaking across the field. The next pic you posted, Goodwin was already open and Hoyer was already about to get sacked. I can't tell what Hoyer's progression is on this play, but there's no doubt that the deep cross is later in the progression since deep crosses are late developing. I didn't think Hoyer gave Goodwin's route a chance by going to it (staying with it).

SEA isn't going to give big windows anywhere, especially the red zone. imo, Kyle called this play at the perfect time because the safety (Kam) was rotating down to a Hook zone, gets occupied by Kittles, and the area behind him is there to attack (yellow circle). If Hoyer lobs a pass to the bottom of the 'K' in "Seahawks" of the endzone, it's 6 points. Earl Thomas was flat footed.

Was this the play that was undercenter 2x2 and the back motioned just a bit to give it that offset look in the backfield?

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Staley sucks at the most crucial times. hoyer need just a little more time

I can't blame Staley on this one. He gave Hoyer enough time to throw against Michael Bennet, whom Nate Solder couldn't contain. IMO the entire O-line gave him enough time and if he climbs the pocket like he's supposed to, he's gonna be able to make that throw 10/10 times.

you wanted Hoyer in a fraction of a second to throw to a spot that has 3 to 2 coverage. I doubt he even sees anyone breaking free with all that traffic over there

maybe Hyde out of the back field ?

Laken should have took the inside block so Hoyer can move to the outside..

No, I don't expect him to see and and throw in a fraction of a second. That's what I got frustrated with CK about, he had to see it before he let it rip. He just had a strong enough arm that he got away with it for a while. I said at the top, he needs to anticipate it. That's what good QB's do. He needs to trust the concept, read the defense and not look for the open man, but know where his routes are going and how the defense will react to them. If he recognizes the "mable" coverage he'll know Chancellor isn't going to break off Kittle and he'll know Sherm is going to cut with Garcon and leave that area open. You got the fastest man in the NFL crossing into open territory, no need to worry, if he's even, he's leavin'.

Originally posted by Niners816:
Was this the play that was undercenter 2x2 and the back motioned just a bit to give it that offset look in the backfield?

yup. One of them.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Staley sucks at the most crucial times. hoyer need just a little more time

One smart thing Seattle did was they gave up trying to rush against Brown so they started overloading Staley's side and Hoyer got annihilated 3 times as as result...Clark and Richardson in particular.

yeah, that's also on Kilgore. He slid protection the wrong way several times.

Yeah, someone noted that last game too...no quicker way to get your QB killed!

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Oh C'mon....noted Xs and Os genius Grant Cohn says the only way to attack cover 3 is "All Verts" and "Y Stick N Nod" (his last articles was saying just this and ripping Kyle for not doing it ).

haha, funny thing is, if you scroll to the bottom of that article I blasted him in the comments section....lol

Haha....I blasted him here in the Cohn thread

Originally posted by Niners816:

I love Grant's whole narrative of calling more Deep plays. It's really shows his lack of knowledge of how concepts and plays are constructed in football. Basically Kyle told him this when he stated the following "Depending on how they play is when you go deep. You just don't call plays that say go deep or go short. It depends on what you're going against."

That's why it's cute having Grant say "he doesn't but it" and then begins to tell Kyle what plays he should have called You see "he just needed to call Four Verticals or Y stick N Nod" Yep, those are the "only" cover 3 beaters

Seriously though, there are tons of concepts to attack cover 3. I mean Kyle coulda called:

-Drive concept
-Sail concept
-Speedo concept
-Curl-Flat
-Slant-Flat
-All Curls
-Double Slant
-Spacing
-Sticks
-Trail concept
-Shallow Cross

Wait a tick, in the play Grant was harping on Kyle in fact did call a shallow cross......

Point is, there's several ways to attack all coverages in football. For someone like Grant to throw s**t at real football guys is hilarious especially when he tries to act like the coaches don't know what they are doing.

Yep, if you ignore the concepts I list above then "all verts and stick nod" are the only things that work

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Oh C'mon....noted Xs and Os genius Grant Cohn says the only way to attack cover 3 is "All Verts" and "Y Stick N Nod" (his last articles was saying just this and ripping Kyle for not doing it ).

haha, funny thing is, if you scroll to the bottom of that article I blasted him in the comments section....lol

Which poster are you? Love seeing that dbag torn a new one.

Here's another instance where the "mable" coverage got Hoyer. It's the very next drive, inside 30 seconds and another 3rd down. This time, 3rd and 1.



Here we're going to run an outside mesh concept and then on the other side we'll run a streak up the seam with kittle and have Garcon on a slant. Taylor is going to run a curl over the middle. Some call is a "snag" route.

Sea is once again in "mable". they like to do this against 3 receiver sides. So, the 2 receiver side is in man-coverage with the outside coverage guy reading any route on that side. He'll look for a vertical releasing route. The MLB will look for any shallow crossers or hook routes and on the other side you'll have a deep 1/3 zone, outside hook zone that will carry vertical routes and out breaking mid routes and a flat zone defender. The idea is, the 3 receiver side won't be able to run 'flood' routes(to the Cohn article, he also said "flood" concepts worked against Seattle's cover 3 zone - Grant....take a lesson....[does that sound arrogant???])



At the snap you can see Seattle's "mable" really well here. You see the defenders in zone(sherm especially) with Chancellor keying Kittle to see if he'll go vertical or out. You also see Garcon manned up on the other side.



Staley's responsibility on this play is to cut down the EMLOS to make way for the slant - so it is a read on this play. You see the flat defender taking away that route and the hook/curl on the zone side taking away the middle in. It appears as if Taylor is open. He'd have to be getting the ball right away, that's tough from this close and Wagner is already driving on the route - that's what I was meaning that he's going to be looking for the crosser/middle hook route. The QB has to realize that against a "mable' defense. Wagner is going to get an "under, under under!" call from the hook/curl on the trips side and look to drive on that route. Chancellor is carrying Kittle vertical.



Now, we might disagree here. I think Staley did a poor job cutting the EMLOS, but I do believe if the ball had been thrown right before this pic the lane was there and he had Garcon on the slant. You can see he's got the separation as the ball was in the air. On the flip side, Taylor does look open, though Wagner is driving on the ball. If Taylor makes this catch, it's a non-issue, but that's a tough task against that guy for a slot receiver when Wagner is going to be looking for that route. To me, if I know I'll have Garcon 1v1 in space against their #2 guy when he's running a slant - I'm going there with the ball. No question.

The thing to me is, I think he should've been looking Garcon's way the whole time against this coverage. Just my opinion though.

Originally posted by DASeiler49:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Niners816:
Oh C'mon....noted Xs and Os genius Grant Cohn says the only way to attack cover 3 is "All Verts" and "Y Stick N Nod" (his last articles was saying just this and ripping Kyle for not doing it ).

haha, funny thing is, if you scroll to the bottom of that article I blasted him in the comments section....lol

Which poster are you? Love seeing that dbag torn a new one.

Jonnydell....hahaha



I guess I shouldn't say I "blasted" him. I was probably too cordial, though I was writing from my phone and didn't want to take the time or energy to really get into it.

Here's the play from post #32, the missed opportunity to Goodwin. It happens fast, so you gotta look at the keyframe posted by jd to see how it was possible to hit Goodwin. The defender being attacked here is Kam as he rotates to his Hook zone.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by DASeiler49:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Niners816:

Oh C'mon....noted Xs and Os genius Grant Cohn says the only way to attack cover 3 is "All Verts" and "Y Stick N Nod" (his last articles was saying just this and ripping Kyle for not doing it ).

haha, funny thing is, if you scroll to the bottom of that article I blasted him in the comments section....lol

Which poster are you? Love seeing that dbag torn a new one.

Jonnydell....hahaha



I guess I shouldn't say I "blasted" him. I was probably too cordial, though I was writing from my phone and didn't want to take the time or energy to really get into it.

I can only imagine him 3 words into it saying, "Haha, didn't read!"

Originally posted by thl408:

Here's the play from post #32, the missed opportunity to Goodwin. It happens fast, so you gotta look at the keyframe posted by jd to see how it was possible to hit Goodwin. The defender being attacked here is Kam as he rotates to his Hook zone.

The gifs really help. Thank you.

Man, what has happened to Hoyer? Dude just lost his mojo the second the season started and s**t got real. Some guys are just psychologically weak or not gamers...but great practice players.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by Niners816:
Oh C'mon....noted Xs and Os genius Grant Cohn says the only way to attack cover 3 is "All Verts" and "Y Stick N Nod" (his last articles was saying just this and ripping Kyle for not doing it ).

haha, funny thing is, if you scroll to the bottom of that article I blasted him in the comments section....lol

Haha....I blasted him here in the Cohn thread

Originally posted by Niners816:
I love Grant's whole narrative of calling more Deep plays. It's really shows his lack of knowledge of how concepts and plays are constructed in football. Basically Kyle told him this when he stated the following "Depending on how they play is when you go deep. You just don't call plays that say go deep or go short. It depends on what you're going against."

That's why it's cute having Grant say "he doesn't but it" and then begins to tell Kyle what plays he should have called You see "he just needed to call Four Verticals or Y stick N Nod" Yep, those are the "only" cover 3 beaters

Seriously though, there are tons of concepts to attack cover 3. I mean Kyle coulda called:

-Drive concept
-Sail concept
-Speedo concept
-Curl-Flat
-Slant-Flat
-All Curls
-Double Slant
-Spacing
-Sticks
-Trail concept
-Shallow Cross

Wait a tick, in the play Grant was harping on Kyle in fact did call a shallow cross......

Point is, there's several ways to attack all coverages in football. For someone like Grant to throw s**t at real football guys is hilarious especially when he tries to act like the coaches don't know what they are doing.

Yep, if you ignore the concepts I list above then "all verts and stick nod" are the only things that work

Yeah, I noted in this game we ran, and this is just off the top of my head from what I remember:
slant/flat
curl/flat
all curls variant(we ran one streak and 4 curls)
trail
drive
double slant(IIRC that's when we got picked off, they were in cover 1 "lurk") and we ran a "stick" on the other side.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
From what I remember on the TD pass play, we had two defenders collide in the pocket and help RW to escape.

If someone could post this still pic, that would be great. How the hell does that little hobbit get out of this forest...again.

https://twitter.com/BR_DougFarrar/status/909879616008896512

...

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
Here's the play from post #32, the missed opportunity to Goodwin. It happens fast, so you gotta look at the keyframe posted by jd to see how it was possible to hit Goodwin. The defender being attacked here is Kam as he rotates to his Hook zone.

The gifs really help. Thank you.

Man, what has happened to Hoyer? Dude just lost his mojo the second the season started and s**t got real. Some guys are just psychologically weak or not gamers...but great practice players.

Yes, thanks for the GIF. If he just climbs the pocket a little and let's it go when Goodwin is even with Thomas it's a TD - supposing Goodwin catches the ball, lol.

PM da links to rewatch the game.

NFL Network can suck it this year.

BTW I too was surprised that seattle let wilson , their sole prized golden boy, run and scramble against a rival team so much. I don't blame Kyle for daring them to do it and risking that little manlet basterd getting rolled on.