Coaches Film Analysis: 2017 Season

Originally posted by Young2Rice:
Brown manhandling a first team all pro.

He just needs to get more consistent at it. It a near exact play on 1st and 10 on our last drive, when we needed to score to win the game in the 4th, Bennett manhandled him.

Was hoping we could get a breakdown of Jaq Tartt.

It seemed he was playing the single high safety a lot during the game, and did a pretty good job. He popped Jimmy G on one play, forcing a drop, and seemed to be solid on the back end of the defense. He is really flashing the last two games. Granted, he has made a few mistakes, but overall it looks like he has really progressed.

Any thoughts?

Originally posted by thl408:
Versus CAR, the 49ers rarely blitzed, but when they did they played man coverage behind it. I think this is the first zone blitz they showed this season. Blitz tendencies is something I wanted to note as we learn about what Saleh wants to do.
This is on SEA's first drive. Watching this live, I thought the 49ers played extremely soft for a 3rd & 6. They brought pressure and wanted to go for 'safe pressure', the principle behind a zone blitz, but this wasn't fire zone (3 deep).

mirrored Inverted Smash vs 4 deep with 2 underneath zone (5 rushers)


49ers overload the right side of the OL and the blitz gets picked up. With just two underneath defenders, any underneath route is going to have a good chance of being open as the 49ers keep everything in front of them. No protecting the sticks here, just don't get burned deep.




Blitz Tartt and Reid, drop Lynch back into a zone. Interesting.

On this play I felt like there was confusion between Reid and Tartt or Dumervil on who was coming. The way they drop it's like a fire zone and Reid and Tartt go for the same rush lane(though Tartt does get shoved). I wonder if Reid or Dumervil were supposed to drop in coverage. I could see Dumervil supposed to, that's a pretty common call, drop your 2 ends in curl/flat coverage on a fire zone while bringing a nickel and LB(Tartt). Then again, I could be wrong altogether and it could be a 3 deep 2 under zone.

Originally posted by thl408:
My goodness Hoyer was terrible in this game. Late on throws, throwing behind WRs (at least twice), that terrible INT. The longest completion in this game was 14 yards on a pop pass to Kittles. The 49ers were 2-12 on 3rd downs, and one of the two conversions was on a 3rd & 12 'we give up' Hyde draw play that ended up going for +27.

Below are the distances to go on the 3rd downs. Six were considered 3rd & long (3rd & 7+).
* = shown in cut up

3rd & 1 (Hyde stuffed)
3rd & 8 (post #23, pass thrown behind Taylor)
3rd & 15 (intentional grounding made it 3rd & long)
3rd & 6 (post #32)
3rd & 12 (Hyde draw play, converted)
3rd & 1 (post #49)
3rd & 2 (Goodwin catch , coverted)
3rd & 6 (offensive PI)
3rd & 15 (sacked for -6 on 2nd down)
3rd & 16 (Kilgore hold set up 3rd and long)
3rd & 6 (Sherman holding on Garcon not called)
3rd & 9 (Celek slant, tackled short)

It's my hope that it's just a symptom of Hoyer getting comfortable with the offense, the offensive concepts and the new players playing. I think the biggest factor is confidence in his offensive line. The run game got untracked in this game, and that will help the pass protection going forward, if the line can continue to have success on the ground. I know Hoyer isn't the QB of the future, not at 30+ years of age. He's no Jim Plunkett in my opinion - unless he starts threading some unbelievable throws like the Post to the Ghost passes. But neither is BeatHard ready either. We're stuck with Hoyer until BeatHard is ready and/or we draft a freak WR Julio Jones/Jerry Rice type of Wideout next draft cycle. I have the feeling that Kyle (even if BeatHard does well as a replacement for Hoyer) he's going to draft a QB in next years draft if they can't get Cousins. But I think Hoyer can improve his game, he just needs more reps, and more confidence in his O LIne. I think if a QB doesn't have confidence in his O Line he's not going to see the whole field (specially the routes that take a lot of time) because he doesn't believe his pass protection will give him the necessary time to get the deep balls out.

Originally posted by thl408:
Here's a few key plays from SEA's TD drive. Pretty frustrating watching the missed holds, Wilson scramble for easy yards, the DJ pass interference, then Wilson being a magician.
This is the first 3rd down SEA faced on the drive and they chose to pass.
Spot vs Cover3


AA facing a block from a RB, he'll toss the RB aside. Wilson looks to the Spot concept and I think AA is in the passing lane so Wilson doesn't pull the trigger to the flat route.


That's a hold.


AA easily gets by the RB but takes a bad angle to RW. Don't run at where he is, run at where you think he'll want to go. AA runs at where Wilson is and just like that he's gone.


That's a hold.


+7

Carradine got held twice, from the endzone you could see the RT hold him before the Guard did, lol. He wraps his arm around his back and grabs the back of his jersey, you'll see it tug up when that happens.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

what? not at all. kap sees the streaking receiver go across the field and let's it rip every time. dont bring your bias into here, lol. kap is better than hoyer despite not being a good fit for this system.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by jreff22:

How much separation are the WR's getting? Are they breaking off routes to come back to Hoyer?

the wide outs can not catch a ball., the o line is awful but in no way shape or form am i deflecting blame. hoyer is garbage, when i think to him talking about how much fun he was having. and how i was told his best years were when he was with kyle. i bought into it. sadly., once again and thought he would be good for us. i think the crap he does not can not be fixed no matter who the coach is. but we are stuck cuz the rookie is no answer. lovely

Poco a poco, cc, or little by little. First step was a rare baalke hit, Trenton. Now with a full yr starting under his belt, this huge man who is light on his feet, agile, and at 350 lbs can dunk a basketball, has come into his own, along with Joe, giving us two top flite OTs. Problems are OG C OG. Well, day before final cuts , John snagged Laken, and one game in, he is remarkably better than Beadles. Also, we picked up Magnus in UDFA, a C/OT/ OG. He will be next man up and take place of Fusco or Kilgore. I'm guessing Fusco. If he plays as well as in PS, we got one more piece of the OL puzzle figured out.

That still has yet to happen though, but once it does, then we are just one man shy of a complete OL. And once we get an OL, even Hoyer HAS to do better. I mean can he do worse? Key to hoyer is proctecting him, and he does better. Right now his head is somewhere else, like Pluto...or Jupiter. It sure ain't on the field. OL protection will bring that. Donald will be a load for Fusco, so i am a bit ambivalent about starting Magnus opposite him for his first nite out. So maybe we struggle thru the rams game...but if hoyer just gets killed by Fusco getting beat every play for the first few series, then i would bring in Magnus. What? He's going to do worse than Fusco? Probably not.

And that is the way we move our O forward...fractionally, one small step...or in this case...one functional OL at a time. Magnus is next guy up. Won't be too hard to improve on Fusco.

And then we see just how much we can get from hoyer, even if kilgore remains at C. My hope is wiht Magnus on one side and Laken on the other, hopefully kilgore plays better. If not, move Magnus to C, bring Fusco back and remove kilgore. We still end up one guy short on the OL, even if Magnus does well. But taht is a helluva lot better than a freeway between the D and Hoyer...with beadles, kilgore and fusco. Lord that was a horrid middle of the OL. But cc, OL is getting better...and with that Hoyer has to get better also. Poco a poco.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Carradine got held twice, from the endzone you could see the RT hold him before the Guard did, lol. He wraps his arm around his back and grabs the back of his jersey, you'll see it tug up when that happens.

The officials can pretty much call a hold on every play. Just my opinion. I think the key to this game was our offense scoring more points than their offense. Not saying the defense was not being held, or saying that the officials didn't screw up. But saying that our offense was the cause of the loss, and not the defense or really the officials. Hoyer definitely has to step up, and I think he can, once he has an O Line he had confidence in - in giving him time to see the whole field, not just the quick 3 step drop routes. Again, thanks for the Awesome Gifs and anaylysis JD.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Carradine got held twice, from the endzone you could see the RT hold him before the Guard did, lol. He wraps his arm around his back and grabs the back of his jersey, you'll see it tug up when that happens.

The officials can pretty much call a hold on every play. Just my opinion. I think the key to this game was our offense scoring more points than their offense. Not saying the defense was not being held, or saying that the officials didn't screw up. But saying that our offense was the cause of the loss, and not the defense or really the officials. Hoyer definitely has to step up, and I think he can, once he has an O Line he had confidence in - in giving him time to see the whole field, not just the quick 3 step drop routes. Again, thanks for the Awesome Gifs and anaylysis JD.

Then the refs should call it on every play. again and again and again until the o-liners learned the lesson.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by thl408:

My goodness Hoyer was terrible in this game. Late on throws, throwing behind WRs (at least twice), that terrible INT. The longest completion in this game was 14 yards on a pop pass to Kittles. The 49ers were 2-12 on 3rd downs, and one of the two conversions was on a 3rd & 12 'we give up' Hyde draw play that ended up going for +27.

Below are the distances to go on the 3rd downs. Six were considered 3rd & long (3rd & 7+).
* = shown in cut up

3rd & 1 (Hyde stuffed)
3rd & 8 (post #23, pass thrown behind Taylor)
3rd & 15 (intentional grounding made it 3rd & long)
3rd & 6 (post #32)
3rd & 12 (Hyde draw play, converted)
3rd & 1 (post #49)
3rd & 2 (Goodwin catch , coverted)
3rd & 6 (offensive PI)
3rd & 15 (sacked for -6 on 2nd down)
3rd & 16 (Kilgore hold set up 3rd and long)
3rd & 6 (Sherman holding on Garcon not called)
3rd & 9 (Celek slant, tackled short)

It's my hope that it's just a symptom of Hoyer getting comfortable with the offense, the offensive concepts and the new players playing. I think the biggest factor is confidence in his offensive line. The run game got untracked in this game, and that will help the pass protection going forward, if the line can continue to have success on the ground. I know Hoyer isn't the QB of the future, not at 30+ years of age. He's no Jim Plunkett in my opinion - unless he starts threading some unbelievable throws like the Post to the Ghost passes. But neither is BeatHard ready either. We're stuck with Hoyer until BeatHard is ready and/or we draft a freak WR Julio Jones/Jerry Rice type of Wideout next draft cycle. I have the feeling that Kyle (even if BeatHard does well as a replacement for Hoyer) he's going to draft a QB in next years draft if they can't get Cousins. But I think Hoyer can improve his game, he just needs more reps, and more confidence in his O LIne. I think if a QB doesn't have confidence in his O Line he's not going to see the whole field (specially the routes that take a lot of time) because he doesn't believe his pass protection will give him the necessary time to get the deep balls out.

TBF, when he has been hit, he's been absolutely hammered. I'm genuinely surprised he's not hurt. We can only dream of hitting a QB that hard.

That said, with his knowledge of the offense, he should be the most confident out there and that clearly is not the case. And when your QB isn't confident, it's over.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:

Here's a few key plays from SEA's TD drive. Pretty frustrating watching the missed holds, Wilson scramble for easy yards, the DJ pass interference, then Wilson being a magician.
This is the first 3rd down SEA faced on the drive and they chose to pass.
Spot vs Cover3


AA facing a block from a RB, he'll toss the RB aside. Wilson looks to the Spot concept and I think AA is in the passing lane so Wilson doesn't pull the trigger to the flat route.


That's a hold.


AA easily gets by the RB but takes a bad angle to RW. Don't run at where he is, run at where you think he'll want to go. AA runs at where Wilson is and just like that he's gone.


That's a hold.


+7

Carradine got held twice, from the endzone you could see the RT hold him before the Guard did, lol. He wraps his arm around his back and grabs the back of his jersey, you'll see it tug up when that happens.

Yeah. I can see it. I don't understand why the referees is not honestly to call. But our head coach Shannon should tell the referees check the Offensive lines holding and holding. Then. Don't be yelling at the referees. If the referees can allow about holding for 1 mins than 2 mins as foul call?

Next time, just tell the referees need pay attention them again and just be patience with referees. Just move on let referees will figure out and be nice for us. They will. Trust me..

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Let's not ruin the best thread in football talking about 2012.

2016*

try again

Still a shell of himself. Either way, you completely sidestepped the point.

my point was referring to QB play in general between the 2 and comparing how they'd fair in the same situation. yours was just specifically referring to them vs. only teams like seattle and ARI

No, the discussion was on Hoyer and what is wrong with him...he's not throwing it even when it's right there. It's like he has a mental block similar to what we've seen from Gabbert after a few shots and Kaepernick playing AZ or Seattle.

You saw: someone said something negative about Kap...must defend (Will ignore reference to Gabbert though)

because Kap was better than gabbert, lol. my point was Kap never had THAT mental block. at least not in the season we saw him in last

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
what? not at all. kap sees the streaking receiver go across the field and let's it rip every time. dont bring your bias into here, lol. kap is better than hoyer despite not being a good fit for this system.

you're right. if goodwin was nekked hoyer might have saw him.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Poco a poco, cc, or little by little. First step was a rare baalke hit, Trenton. Now with a full yr starting under his belt, this huge man who is light on his feet, agile, and at 350 lbs can dunk a basketball, has come into his own, along with Joe, giving us two top flite OTs. Problems are OG C OG. Well, day before final cuts , John snagged Laken, and one game in, he is remarkably better than Beadles. Also, we picked up Magnus in UDFA, a C/OT/ OG. He will be next man up and take place of Fusco or Kilgore. I'm guessing Fusco. If he plays as well as in PS, we got one more piece of the OL puzzle figured out.

That still has yet to happen though, but once it does, then we are just one man shy of a complete OL. And once we get an OL, even Hoyer HAS to do better. I mean can he do worse? Key to hoyer is proctecting him, and he does better. Right now his head is somewhere else, like Pluto...or Jupiter. It sure ain't on the field. OL protection will bring that. Donald will be a load for Fusco, so i am a bit ambivalent about starting Magnus opposite him for his first nite out. So maybe we struggle thru the rams game...but if hoyer just gets killed by Fusco getting beat every play for the first few series, then i would bring in Magnus. What? He's going to do worse than Fusco? Probably not.

And that is the way we move our O forward...fractionally, one small step...or in this case...one functional OL at a time. Magnus is next guy up. Won't be too hard to improve on Fusco.

And then we see just how much we can get from hoyer, even if kilgore remains at C. My hope is wiht Magnus on one side and Laken on the other, hopefully kilgore plays better. If not, move Magnus to C, bring Fusco back and remove kilgore. We still end up one guy short on the OL, even if Magnus does well. But taht is a helluva lot better than a freeway between the D and Hoyer...with beadles, kilgore and fusco. Lord that was a horrid middle of the OL. But cc, OL is getting better...and with that Hoyer has to get better also. Poco a poco.

Practice Squadders, Willaims and Flynn are my candidates to replace Kilgore. If Magnuson can replace Fusco. Kilgore was a practice squadder a few years ago, and I think these guys can be much better than Kilgore. The problem with replacing Kilgore is that Kilgore makes all the line protection calls. I'd rather have Laken move to center and either Magnuson or one of our practice Squadders replace Laken or Fusco at Guard. That way Laken can make the line protection calls, because I think he's probably more intelligent than Kilgore. The O Line was decent in the Seadderall game, and I take that game (even though we lost) as a victory because everybody had us losing by two touchdowns. I am so looking forward to seeing what ShanaLynch is going to come up with as O Line solutions this next offseason cycle as they now have a bit more time to prepare, vs last year when they only had from February on to prepare for the last offseason cycle.

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Carradine got held twice, from the endzone you could see the RT hold him before the Guard did, lol. He wraps his arm around his back and grabs the back of his jersey, you'll see it tug up when that happens.

The officials can pretty much call a hold on every play. Just my opinion. I think the key to this game was our offense scoring more points than their offense. Not saying the defense was not being held, or saying that the officials didn't screw up. But saying that our offense was the cause of the loss, and not the defense or really the officials. Hoyer definitely has to step up, and I think he can, once he has an O Line he had confidence in - in giving him time to see the whole field, not just the quick 3 step drop routes. Again, thanks for the Awesome Gifs and anaylysis JD.

Then the refs should call it on every play. again and again and again until the o-liners learned the lesson.

Yeah, well they'll call a hold on Kilgore and Fusco on every play then. I think the refs go through what they call an evaluation process over the offseason as to what to call, and I think they can only call blatantly clear holding. In a close game like this, the ref calls will get a lot of attention, and I think (unless they are being paid by the mob) won't make game changing calls at the end of a close game. (Like the Crabtree PI non-calls in the Harb-brothers Bowl)