Coaches Film Analysis: 2017 Season

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
It's also a play that highlights the great O-line play. Look how clean that pocket is on an 18 yard out route - that's gonna take a few seconds

big boy throw

Agreed...from the far hash, an out at the sideline, in between defenders and in a spot that allowed for YAC. Big boy is right.

ur a big boi

Concepts like curl/flat, all curl, slant/flat, all go, smash, etc. are just route combos using one of three Gillman base concepts... he structured his combos based on horizontal stretch of the undercoverage, horizontal stretch of the deep coverage, and vertical stretch of 1/3 column of the field... you could make a case for the BYU oblique stretch being a fourth base concept that I think Chow developed but I could never convince myself that is was any different than the three base Gilman concepts...

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
did you notice it's the exact same friggin play?....lol I just did.... McVay doing his best Chip impression, lol.

Similar to Chip in that it's a simple concept, Spacing, but dressed up with tempo.

so considering we got beat TWICE on it, what do you call to beat it?

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
Concepts like curl/flat, all curl, slant/flat, all go, smash, etc. are just route combos using one of three Gillman base concepts... he structured his combos based on horizontal stretch of the undercoverage, horizontal stretch of the deep coverage, and vertical stretch of 1/3 column of the field... you could make a case for the BYU oblique stretch being a fourth base concept that I think Chow developed but I could never convince myself that is was any different than the three base Gilman concepts...

The term 'concept' is used loosely in this thread to save from typing out 'route combination'. All route combinations are trying to achieve one of these 4 things - horizontal stretch, vertical stretch, triangle/oblique stretch, rub/pick play - which I think you are referring to as concepts.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
did you notice it's the exact same friggin play?....lol I just did.... McVay doing his best Chip impression, lol.

Similar to Chip in that it's a simple concept, Spacing, but dressed up with tempo.

so considering we got beat TWICE on it, what do you call to beat it?

For that specific play, Cover2 Zone. It puts 5 underneath defenders in position to cover 5 underneath routes. It's a good coverage call versus any 3 step timing play which is what that play is.

Originally posted by thl408:
The term 'concept' is used loosely in this thread to save from typing out 'route combination'. All route combinations are trying to achieve one of these 4 things - horizontal stretch, vertical stretch, triangle/oblique stretch, rub/pick play - which I think you are referring to as concepts.

Yes agreed! I should have added in press coverage pick combos as you have, that for sure is a stand alone base concept... just call them combos then there is no confusion with concept.

Also agree, the concepts use one of the base concepts but in different parts of the field... horizontal stretches attack the undercoverage or the deep coverage, vertical stretches attack one third columns of the field which occupy an undercoverage defender and a deep defender where the columns are delineated by the hashes (outside third or middle third)... so there are basically 5 unique areas of the field to attack versus zone coverage.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
did you notice it's the exact same friggin play?....lol I just did.... McVay doing his best Chip impression, lol.

Similar to Chip in that it's a simple concept, Spacing, but dressed up with tempo.

so considering we got beat TWICE on it, what do you call to beat it?

I'd call a cover 2 zone hard flat and tell your hook/curl defender away from the bunch to trail the out breaking route from the TE. Have your CB take the RB out of the backfield. On the other side, you'll have it covered. With a cover 2 zone you'll have those 5 underneath defenders to defend the 5 underneath routes.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
Concepts like curl/flat, all curl, slant/flat, all go, smash, etc. are just route combos using one of three Gillman base concepts... he structured his combos based on horizontal stretch of the undercoverage, horizontal stretch of the deep coverage, and vertical stretch of 1/3 column of the field... you could make a case for the BYU oblique stretch being a fourth base concept that I think Chow developed but I could never convince myself that is was any different than the three base Gilman concepts...

The term 'concept' is used loosely in this thread to save from typing out 'route combination'. All route combinations are trying to achieve one of these 4 things - horizontal stretch, vertical stretch, triangle/oblique stretch, rub/pick play - which I think you are referring to as concepts.

Exactly. Like the "dagger" concept is a vertical stretch of the hook/curl defender but we use the 'dagger' to refer to the inside route being a streak, outside route being a DIG and an underneath shallow crossing route. Like you said, all the concepts are doing one of 4 things, it's just a specific way to do one of those 4 things through specific route combinations - many of which Bill Walsh came up with or incorporated.

It looked like C2 *Man with a Mike as a robber....

*edit

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:
It looked like C2 *Man with a Mike as a robber....

*edit

I thought about that for a second, but then that would leave 1 receiver uncovered as you'd have 3 zone players and we rushed 4, so you'd only have 4 man defenders against 5 receivers. Also, that 2nd "safety" is CB Dontae Johnson. Considering Saleh runs a simple defense I figured he doesn't have a defense where it rotates over and you have one of your corners playing a 2 deep zone.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
did you notice it's the exact same friggin play?....lol I just did.... McVay doing his best Chip impression, lol.

Similar to Chip in that it's a simple concept, Spacing, but dressed up with tempo.

so considering we got beat TWICE on it, what do you call to beat it?

For that specific play, Cover2 Zone. It puts 5 underneath defenders in position to cover 5 underneath routes. It's a good coverage call versus any 3 step timing play which is what that play is.

can you even tell what we called on one of those plays initially? we look way out of position on the catch to Watkins

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I thought about that for a second, but then that would leave 1 receiver uncovered as you'd have 3 zone players and we rushed 4, so you'd only have 4 man defenders against 5 receivers. Also, that 2nd "safety" is CB Dontae Johnson. Considering Saleh runs a simple defense I figured he doesn't have a defense where it rotates over and you have one of your corners playing a 2 deep zone.

what I see is that #1 and #2 are manned up on both sides of the ball... DJ doesn't appear to be manned on anyone and is just reading anything past the undercoverage going deep on his side, Mike fakes a fire then drops and not manned on anyone unless he was spying Goff... just my opinion

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I thought about that for a second, but then that would leave 1 receiver uncovered as you'd have 3 zone players and we rushed 4, so you'd only have 4 man defenders against 5 receivers. Also, that 2nd "safety" is CB Dontae Johnson. Considering Saleh runs a simple defense I figured he doesn't have a defense where it rotates over and you have one of your corners playing a 2 deep zone.

what I see is that #1 and #2 are manned up on both sides of the ball... DJ doesn't appear to be manned on anyone and is just reading anything past the undercoverage going deep on his side, Mike fakes a fire then drops and not manned on anyone unless he was spying Goff... just my opinion

Sure, I'm not arguing that - I'm meaning, that means Bow(mike) Ward(FS) and DJ(CB) are all in zone coverage and then 4 guys are in man?

What I think we're in is a cover 3 "mable" defense. Where there's a flat, outside hook/curl and deep 1/3 zone on one side, a middle hook in the middle and a flat/follow the route if it breaks vertical for the other 2 underneath coverages and the single receiver side is in man-coverage.



This is what it looked like to me. That way, it looks like man-coverage on the opposite side, and it is, sort of. The kicker was, Goff's pump fake to the 2 receiver side moved the Mike(Bowman) and really opened up the lane.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Sure, I'm not arguing that - I'm meaning, that means Bow(mike) Ward(FS) and DJ(CB) are all in zone coverage and then 4 guys are in man?

What I think we're in is a cover 3 "mable" defense. Where there's a flat, outside hook/curl and deep 1/3 zone on one side, a middle hook in the middle and a flat/follow the route if it breaks vertical for the other 2 underneath coverages and the single receiver side is in man-coverage.



This is what it looked like to me. That way, it looks like man-coverage on the opposite side, and it is, sort of. The kicker was, Goff's pump fake to the 2 receiver side moved the Mike(Bowman) and really opened up the lane.

You know it could be that for sure.... I think Goff clutched and came off it to #3 so fast, that was good...

I looked at it again, and it's almost like DJ was loose manned up on Sammy Wadkins and he just screwed it up badly! then is could be C1 robber

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Sure, I'm not arguing that - I'm meaning, that means Bow(mike) Ward(FS) and DJ(CB) are all in zone coverage and then 4 guys are in man?

What I think we're in is a cover 3 "mable" defense. Where there's a flat, outside hook/curl and deep 1/3 zone on one side, a middle hook in the middle and a flat/follow the route if it breaks vertical for the other 2 underneath coverages and the single receiver side is in man-coverage.



This is what it looked like to me. That way, it looks like man-coverage on the opposite side, and it is, sort of. The kicker was, Goff's pump fake to the 2 receiver side moved the Mike(Bowman) and really opened up the lane.

You know it could be that for sure.... I think Goff clutched and came off it to #3 so fast, that was good...

I looked at it again, and it's almost like DJ was loose manned up on Sammy Wadkins and he just screwed it up badly! then is could be C1 robber

could be that too and the bunch formation confused them on who had who in man-coverage. It was one where I had a hard time knowing who was at fault, but was pretty sure someone was, lol. I'd love to be in the meeting room when they went over that play.