Coaches Film Analysis: 2017 Season

Kilgore is doing a fine job of being 5 yards in our own backfield...helping our QB's up off the ground. He'll hit in the running game and certainly has the ability to get to the second level but like JD noted, he's just not consistent at all...and that goes for the whole OL at times. Kilgore is currently rated as the 32nd worst C with an overall poor grade of 43.8 by PFF (just a reference point).

Originally posted by jonnydel:

No. He's calling stuff like BW used to. Has the possibility of the deep play and you look for the deep play first and work down from there. One of the issues that makes it look that way is that CJ can rush his reads. I've seen him move to the 3rd route in the progression by his 2nd drop back step and he never gave the concept the chance to work. It's hard for a guy in his position because you like a QB that can move quickly through progressions but you also have to stick with it until you can know what it will be. For example, there was a play we had a drive concept going and he moved off the drive to his 3rd progression after the LB took 2 dropback steps. The in route on the drive concept was open, but he had already moved off the concept and then hung on to the ball too long.

It'll look like the play was too long in developing but it was there to be made.

Touchdown or checkdown....that's classic WCO stuff there. Just wondering how you saw it....a certain scribe has Kyle "busting" QBs. You know the same scribe that says the only way to attack Cover 3 is "all verts" and "Y stick N Nod"....he asked Madden

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Best thread ever! Cheers guys, I watched some Coach Gibbs videos and it blew my mind.

I was then inspired to watch some Coaches film of our running game. I got the basics and from what I saw Kilgore was performing well, from how Coacch Gibbs was describing it the center is extremely important, it might explain why he hasn't yet been axed even though he's clearly struggling in the pass game.

Are you guys seeing this? He seems to consistently get to the 2nd level and get in the correct lanes

Yes and no.I see Kilgore doing a good job on the 2nd level but where he struggles IMO is on the 1st level and at the point of attack. He allows too much penetration when reach a shade which to me is problematic but to your point I think his footwork and angles are proper. He certainly struggles in pass pro, he was responsible for one of the sacks where it looked like Tomlinson got beat but Kilgore was double reading and should have had Tomlinson's inside gap but was late getting over.

While I'm at it some quick thoughts about the Seahawks game and in general.

QBs - CJ is what he is and god bless him for fighting through the beating he has taken throughout the course of his starts until the end of the game Sunday. I am more impressed with his physical talent than I thought I would be earlier in the year, has a good zip on the ball, fairly accurate, feet are solid and shown the ability to throw from unbalanced sets. However, I still don't think he sees the field well reluctantly taking the check down too often when he has time and the progression is clean. He also is reluctant to throw into some tight windows but ones that are wide open to the NFL standard. Rookie problems for sure, just doesn't have the anticipation and trust he needs to be successful.

With Jimmy G I am real interested to see if Kyle keeps the pass game pretty vanilla like he has with CJ or if expands a little bit as Jimmy G gets more comfortable. Excited to see the kid play, was a big fan of his coming out in college, something to watch with him is how well he sets his feet, something he picked up from Brady and my old tutor Tom Martinez. His balance and pocket movement is fantastic, much like Brady.

RBs - Hyde has really impressed me with his running this year, hard downhill and motivated, showed a lot of heart this season. That being said he still pretty undisciplined in the run game, and that's a big problem given the scheme (again think Coach Gibbs). He also a is minus player in the pass game. His struggles in pass pro is well documented and he is not a great route runner and obviously has shown a fair amount of drops (as the entire offense has). So as much as Lynch and Kyle are talking up Hyde, don't be surprised if they don't even offer him a contract regardless of the market rate, I think they move on.

In this system the RB being pivotal in the pass game is essential, as we saw with the Falcons last season, hoping they can find someone in the draft next year to add this dimension.

WRs - I would have cut Bourne on Monday morning for showing up the QB and being undisciplined, but that's a big pet peeve of mine, happens in the NFL too often.
This may be an unpopular opinion but I am a big fan of Goodwin. He's becoming a better route runner through the course of the year and his speed is a true weapon for the offense. He is starting to make some contested catches but still needs to improve his hands to be a consistent Z WR in the offense. Also if Goodwin is able to get better through contact, mainly at the 2nd level and improve his thought process on his routes (stems/where to attack) he'll be a great 2nd/3rd WR.

OL - If you guys need a good drinking game watch Magnuson and take a shot every time he touches a Seahawk in the run game and anytime he stops the momentum of a pass rusher. Spoiler alert - you won't be drinking much. He was a big minus player as I already stated.

Tomlinson - not a bad player just needs to be more consistent at the POA - tends to lean too much and be early with his hands, gets him in trouble.

Fusco didn't stand out to the negative or the positive. Staley is starting to age and that's hard to see. He is starting to put himself in poor body positions which is something he never used to do and it gets him beat. Still an above average LT but the end is closer in sight than I comfortable admitting.

I'll post some clips here shortly. Thanks!

Originally posted by jonnydel:
No. He's calling stuff like BW used to. Has the possibility of the deep play and you look for the deep play first and work down from there. One of the issues that makes it look that way is that CJ can rush his reads. I've seen him move to the 3rd route in the progression by his 2nd drop back step and he never gave the concept the chance to work. It's hard for a guy in his position because you like a QB that can move quickly through progressions but you also have to stick with it until you can know what it will be. For example, there was a play we had a drive concept going and he moved off the drive to his 3rd progression after the LB took 2 dropback steps. The in route on the drive concept was open, but he had already moved off the concept and then hung on to the ball too long.

It'll look like the play was too long in developing but it was there to be made.

Crazy. I have that play cutup and ready to go. I titled it "CJ too fast". If you put up the film thread I can show the rest. Unless you are referring to another play.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Kilgore is doing a fine job of being 5 yards in our own backfield...helping our QB's up off the ground. He'll hit in the running game and certainly has the ability to get to the second level but like JD noted, he's just not consistent at all...and that goes for the whole OL at times. Kilgore is currently rated as the 32nd worst C with an overall poor grade of 43.8 by PFF (just a.c. reference point).

On Point! We need a Center who can hold his ground.

Originally posted by thl408:

Crazy. I have that play cutup and ready to go. I titled it "CJ too fast". If you put up the film thread I can show the rest. Unless you are referring to another play.

Look at the personnel on this play. 21 personnel but look at the sets. "Fullback Drive"

Originally posted by Niners816:
Look at the personnel on this play. 21 personnel but look at the sets. "Fullback Drive"

Yeah. Total set up to give CJ a clear presnap read of the coverage. CBs lined up over Juice and Breida? Zone coverage all the way.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by thl408:

Crazy. I have that play cutup and ready to go. I titled it "CJ too fast". If you put up the film thread I can show the rest. Unless you are referring to another play.

Look at the personnel on this play. 21 personnel but look at the sets. "Fullback Drive"

Correction...."offensive weapon drive"

Originally posted by jgarf08:
Yes and no.I see Kilgore doing a good job on the 2nd level but where he struggles IMO is on the 1st level and at the point of attack. He allows too much penetration when reach a shade which to me is problematic but to your point I think his footwork and angles are proper. He certainly struggles in pass pro, he was responsible for one of the sacks where it looked like Tomlinson got beat but Kilgore was double reading and should have had Tomlinson's inside gap but was late getting over.

While I'm at it some quick thoughts about the Seahawks game and in general.

(snipped)

I'll post some clips here shortly. Thanks!

Good stuff jgarf. I don't take the time to spotlight players so I really dig reading jonnydel's and now your thoughts on individuals.
About Hyde's usage as a pass catcher, nearly all of his routes come out of the backfield whereas I've seen Beida get split wide and actually get targeted. This supports your argument that Hyde really isn't adept at running routes, which makes sense since Hyde is a tough inside runner and that skillset isn't going to translate well to being a good route running RB (big bodied RB). Hyde is still used often in the passing game, but not really as a way to exploit mismatches like how Kyle would line up TColeman in ATL as a slot WR to win 1v1s against LBs.

Another screen for some reason sorry I've been so attracted to it. It's 2nd and 9 and 12 pers. Seahawks are playing Man Free which they did most of the game interchanging it with Cover 3 and Cover 2 in passing situations. Picture is post motion. 49ers ran a similar concept earlier trying to hit Juice on the wheel. Was well set up and good timing on the call catching Seattle in man. Up front faking stretch like they typically do on their playaction boots. V route by #1 up top, drag by Goodwin and flat wheel by the Y.

Here it is at the release. CJ does a good job of getting width and buying time to get the ball off. Again Hyde looks like he gets too much width but I believe this one is on the Oline and more than likely poor awareness on behalf of Staley.

All 5 Linemen get out on the screen, only 1 defender left to get a big play. On any screen you should typically have 1 Linemen out to the flats, 1 to run the alley, and 1 to be a rat killer (turnback). Here all 5 Linemen looking back inside but I assure you someone was coached to pick up the defender covering the back or covering the PS flats. Poor awareness and execution and 7 yard loss.


Again, great play design and timing, but offense just not clicking. I can tell you as a OC one of the most frustrating things was getting Olinemen to understand the screen game, it is a battle but maybe that's why I'm looking for work. Imagine on the NFL level that is a easier fight, particularly with how athletic these Olinemen are getting which blows me away every time I watch the coaches film.

Originally posted by jgarf08:

Another screen for some reason sorry I've been so attracted to it. It's 2nd and 9 and 12 pers. Seahawks are playing Man Free which they did most of the game interchanging it with Cover 3 and Cover 2 in passing situations. Picture is post motion. 49ers ran a similar concept earlier trying to hit Juice on the wheel. Was well set up and good timing on the call catching Seattle in man. Up front faking stretch like they typically do on their playaction boots. V route by #1 up top, drag by Goodwin and flat wheel by the Y.

Here it is at the release. CJ does a good job of getting width and buying time to get the ball off. Again Hyde looks like he gets too much width but I believe this one is on the Oline and more than likely poor awareness on behalf of Staley.

All 5 Linemen get out on the screen, only 1 defender left to get a big play. On any screen you should typically have 1 Linemen out to the flats, 1 to run the alley, and 1 to be a rat killer (turnback). Here all 5 Linemen looking back inside but I assure you someone was coached to pick up the defender covering the back or covering the PS flats. Poor awareness and execution and 7 yard loss.


Again, great play design and timing, but offense just not clicking. I can tell you as a OC one of the most frustrating things was getting Olinemen to understand the screen game, it is a battle but maybe that's why I'm looking for work. Imagine on the NFL level that is a easier fight, particularly with how athletic these Olinemen are getting which blows me away every time I watch the coaches film.

I like that this seems to be a screen pass built off of a slide concept. The motion man slides back across the formation and blocks but it looks very similar to our slide concept passes. Very nice wrinkle.

As you said it's more built off of the TE throwback play but with that motion man sliding back gives you option to run a slide concept off of it.

Originally posted by thl408:

About Hyde's usage as a pass catcher, nearly all of his routes come out of the backfield whereas I've seen Beida get split wide and actually get targeted. This supports your argument that Hyde really isn't adept at running routes, which makes sense since Hyde is a tough inside runner and that skillset isn't going to translate well to being a good route running RB (big bodied RB). Hyde is still used often in the passing game, but not really as a way to exploit mismatches like how Kyle would line up TColeman in ATL as a slot WR to win 1v1s against LBs.

I was going to ask you guys about this. Aside from Hyde needing to scrap the big gloves on rainy day, I've noticed a huge difference in the WAY Breida and Hyde run routes. Whether Breida is split out or starts in the backfield, it seems like Breida sprints out of the backfield almost like he's a primary receiver vs. Hyde who's usually half-jogging, like he's the last option. Anyone else notice This? Just me?

Man, if just one OL looks outside and gets that block the play likely goes for 20+.

Originally posted by jgarf08:
Another screen for some reason sorry I've been so attracted to it. It's 2nd and 9 and 12 pers. Seahawks are playing Man Free which they did most of the game interchanging it with Cover 3 and Cover 2 in passing situations. Picture is post motion. 49ers ran a similar concept earlier trying to hit Juice on the wheel. Was well set up and good timing on the call catching Seattle in man. Up front faking stretch like they typically do on their playaction boots. V route by #1 up top, drag by Goodwin and flat wheel by the Y.

Here it is at the release. CJ does a good job of getting width and buying time to get the ball off. Again Hyde looks like he gets too much width but I believe this one is on the Oline and more than likely poor awareness on behalf of Staley.

All 5 Linemen get out on the screen, only 1 defender left to get a big play. On any screen you should typically have 1 Linemen out to the flats, 1 to run the alley, and 1 to be a rat killer (turnback). Here all 5 Linemen looking back inside but I assure you someone was coached to pick up the defender covering the back or covering the PS flats. Poor awareness and execution and 7 yard loss.

Again, great play design and timing, but offense just not clicking. I can tell you as a OC one of the most frustrating things was getting Olinemen to understand the screen game, it is a battle but maybe that's why I'm looking for work. Imagine on the NFL level that is a easier fight, particularly with how athletic these Olinemen are getting which blows me away every time I watch the coaches film.

This is one of those plays the team talks about in meetings during the week where you wait for the look you want from the defense, you get it, you call the play, it's been practiced. The ball is snapped, "got 'em!". Son of a b***h! Missed block.
Kyle's offense is pass first and that lends itself well to setting up the defense for screens. While the fault may lay with Staley here, Tomlinson/Fusco don't seem like guards that excel in the screen game. We've talked a lot about improving the guards this coming offseason.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
No. He's calling stuff like BW used to. Has the possibility of the deep play and you look for the deep play first and work down from there. One of the issues that makes it look that way is that CJ can rush his reads. I've seen him move to the 3rd route in the progression by his 2nd drop back step and he never gave the concept the chance to work. It's hard for a guy in his position because you like a QB that can move quickly through progressions but you also have to stick with it until you can know what it will be. For example, there was a play we had a drive concept going and he moved off the drive to his 3rd progression after the LB took 2 dropback steps. The in route on the drive concept was open, but he had already moved off the concept and then hung on to the ball too long.

It'll look like the play was too long in developing but it was there to be made.

Crazy. I have that play cutup and ready to go. I titled it "CJ too fast". If you put up the film thread I can show the rest. Unless you are referring to another play.

nope, that was it . Funny I'm working on the OP to a film thread now