Coaches Film Analysis: 2018 Season

Originally posted by jgarf08:

Am I the only one who thinks that is a bust by Breida? Seems a little tight to run a flood concept, you allow the CB to play both. I would imagine they would have Breida on a hitch/stop which we have seen with that Scissor concept last year, or it could be a Snag concept with Breida on the slant/hook, or maybe it was a flood and Breida needed to continue across the back of the end zone. Thought it was weird watching it live, puzzling me still.

I agree with this. Just not enough field to have this play out. That's why at first I was hoping it was gonna be like this play(I posted it a couple posts back):

The skinny post helps clear it out for the corner and the flat. I believe that play from the 16 playoff game vs Seattle was vs a cover3 as well. The tighter spllts on the corner-flat side along with the skinny gives it the room it's needs.

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by thl408:
Blooper or highlight?

Ugh, Reuben shoots that window for TFL.

Good stuff as always, jd and thl. Just caught up on the entire thread.

I agree and think that's where Reuben makes a difference. He is such an explosive and quick-twitch defender--something really missed during the game.

I feel smarter after reading this thread

Originally posted by jgarf08:

Am I the only one who thinks that is a bust by Breida? Seems a little tight to run a flood concept, you allow the CB to play both. I would imagine they would have Breida on a hitch/stop which we have seen with that Scissor concept last year, or it could be a Snag concept with Breida on the slant/hook, or maybe it was a flood and Breida needed to continue across the back of the end zone. Thought it was weird watching it live, puzzling me still.

I thought the same thing! Unless Garcon wasn't supposed to take it so deep I would have thought Brieda was supposed to sit it down in some way

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:
This is the biggest gain for MIN on the day. Theilen was the go to guy for Cousins all game long and here he converts a 3rd down to continue the drive that ended in KRudolph's TD.
Quarters vs three level flood
Rarely see Quarters coverage from Saleh so this is a changeup.


This is a key moment in the play for Colbert. If the #2WR (Thielen 19) goes vertical, then Colbert will match him. If Thielen does not go vertical, then Colbert is to double team the #1WR (red arrow).


As Thielen (19) bends his bench route, Colbert makes the determination that Thielen is not going vertical, moves off Thielen, and double teams the #1. KWilliams is distracted by the drag route from Diggs so he does not gain depth. This allows Thielen to be unaccounted for. Thielen is kind of in no man's land so I can see why Colbert let him go. If Colbert doesn't double the Go route up the sideline, then Spoon is on his own with no inside help in case that WR runs a Post.


+34

When I watched this I felt like Williams got caught watching the crosser expecting him to continue his route and was getting ready to jump on the crosser. Instead, the receiver cut it off over the middle. That's a play where the opposing team out-schemed us on this one. It happens to all defenses. Those OC's are getting paid too.

Is it more like it happens that the play the offense called worked well against this defensive play, rather than smartly out-schemed us on this play? As you mentioned, this is a Quarters coverage, which we rarely played, so OC couldn't really expect this coverage.

I have visited so many fan forums for other teams. Usually the teams we play each week just to see what their point of view is of the match ups. I can say one thing about the zone and that we are so spoiled and this thread is one of the major reasons why. There really isn't anything else out there like this that I know of. I just want to say thank you thl408 and jonnydel.

Originally posted by littleken:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by thl408:
This is the biggest gain for MIN on the day. Theilen was the go to guy for Cousins all game long and here he converts a 3rd down to continue the drive that ended in KRudolph's TD.
Quarters vs three level flood
Rarely see Quarters coverage from Saleh so this is a changeup.


This is a key moment in the play for Colbert. If the #2WR (Thielen 19) goes vertical, then Colbert will match him. If Thielen does not go vertical, then Colbert is to double team the #1WR (red arrow).


As Thielen (19) bends his bench route, Colbert makes the determination that Thielen is not going vertical, moves off Thielen, and double teams the #1. KWilliams is distracted by the drag route from Diggs so he does not gain depth. This allows Thielen to be unaccounted for. Thielen is kind of in no man's land so I can see why Colbert let him go. If Colbert doesn't double the Go route up the sideline, then Spoon is on his own with no inside help in case that WR runs a Post.


+34

When I watched this I felt like Williams got caught watching the crosser expecting him to continue his route and was getting ready to jump on the crosser. Instead, the receiver cut it off over the middle. That's a play where the opposing team out-schemed us on this one. It happens to all defenses. Those OC's are getting paid too.

Is it more like it happens that the play the offense called worked well against this defensive play, rather than smartly out-schemed us on this play? As you mentioned, this is a Quarters coverage, which we rarely played, so OC couldn't really expect this coverage.

The play is a good cover 3 beater as well. When I can't pick up a tendency in terms of coverage on specific D&D/Situation I tend to call pass plays that are good against multiple looks not just what I am expecting. This concept is essentially a drive/shallow concept (bottom) with a switch flood concept (top). Cousins can identify coverage and know where to go with the ball.

I think this is Palms coverage, good call against it. Depending on the established break point with the CB/Safety up top, Witherspoon (?) could be responsible for the sail route, and Williams could have been right taking the crosser knowing he has a flat defender in the CB. Goes against what I thought live, but that would be my guess. Good scheme by the Viks in either case.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
jonnydel and thl408

Thanks guys. This was the talk-down I needed. Rational. With film, etc. It's not as bad as it looked in realtime when you can break down film.


That being said, I think the Rams faced a much softer team in the Raiders and that gives me hope that at least we'll be able to keep up with LA.

Big-time understatement there.
Not saying I expect us to for sure hang with the Rams. But the power-rankings gap between Minn and Oakland has got to be about 26 NFL teams.

Originally posted by jgarf08:
The play is a good cover 3 beater as well. When I can't pick up a tendency in terms of coverage on specific D&D/Situation I tend to call pass plays that are good against multiple looks not just what I am expecting. This concept is essentially a drive/shallow concept (bottom) with a switch flood concept (top). Cousins can identify coverage and know where to go with the ball.

I think this is Palms coverage, good call against it. Depending on the established break point with the CB/Safety up top, Witherspoon (?) could be responsible for the sail route, and Williams could have been right taking the crosser knowing he has a flat defender in the CB. Goes against what I thought live, but that would be my guess. Good scheme by the Viks in either case.

Hey jgarf, what are the difference between palms and 2 trap?

Originally posted by Heroism:

Originally posted by jgarf08:
The play is a good cover 3 beater as well. When I can't pick up a tendency in terms of coverage on specific D&D/Situation I tend to call pass plays that are good against multiple looks not just what I am expecting. This concept is essentially a drive/shallow concept (bottom) with a switch flood concept (top). Cousins can identify coverage and know where to go with the ball.

I think this is Palms coverage, good call against it. Depending on the established break point with the CB/Safety up top, Witherspoon (?) could be responsible for the sail route, and Williams could have been right taking the crosser knowing he has a flat defender in the CB. Goes against what I thought live, but that would be my guess. Good scheme by the Viks in either case.

Hey jgarf, what are the difference between palms and 2 trap?

We could be using different verbiage but to me 2 trap is the CB jumping the #2 WR in a 2x2 or apexing #2 and #3 in a 3x1 set aggressively. I have film of it somewhere but he will start in a normal Cov. 2 Alignment and on the snap will run to apex #1 and #2 or apex #2 an #3 to try and disrupt short quick throws.

Palms or 2 read or the million other terms people call it nowadays is a pattern match scheme where the CB and Safety are reading the stem of the #2 or #3 WR. If they get a route by 2 or 3 that is fast to the flat, the coverage becomes Cov. 2 (squat CB, deep 1/2 Safety), if they get 2 vertical stems it becomes Qtrs/Cov. 4. The coverage has adapted recently, but there is generally a break point, or a max yardage where the DBs will turn it to Cov 2. TCU's break point right now is only immediate fast to the flat (bubble, smoke, flat). Some teams still have a 10 yard break point, some 8, some 5, etc.

Hope that explained it.

Originally posted by jgarf08:
We could be using different verbiage but to me 2 trap is the CB jumping the #2 WR in a 2x2 or apexing #2 and #3 in a 3x1 set aggressively. I have film of it somewhere but he will start in a normal Cov. 2 Alignment and on the snap will run to apex #1 and #2 or apex #2 an #3 to try and disrupt short quick throws.

Palms or 2 read or the million other terms people call it nowadays is a pattern match scheme where the CB and Safety are reading the stem of the #2 or #3 WR. If they get a route by 2 or 3 that is fast to the flat, the coverage becomes Cov. 2 (squat CB, deep 1/2 Safety), if they get 2 vertical stems it becomes Qtrs/Cov. 4. The coverage has adapted recently, but there is generally a break point, or a max yardage where the DBs will turn it to Cov 2. TCU's break point right now is only immediate fast to the flat (bubble, smoke, flat). Some teams still have a 10 yard break point, some 8, some 5, etc.

Hope that explained it.

Ahh, got it. Thx, man.

Great thread as always, Jonny. One of the best in the 'Zone. Thanks again for taking the time with the content you provided.

Originally posted by jgarf08:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
I think the missed Garcon TD is on Jimmy. It did looked like he waited a tad too long to throw the ball. It should be right when Garcon turned his head around, which would be between the hash and numbers, but he didn't get it until he was outside the numbers. The defender trailing Garcon had his back turned. He wouldn't have seen the ball to make a play on it had it been thrown.

He took 3 steps and a hitch. So no hitch? The defender threatening Garcon isthe CB lined up over Breida, watching the play as he bails. Maybe I'm overestimating that CB's range.
Yeah I think if he doesn't hitch the pass has a better chance. Don't know what the play requires. The announcer was only speculating that the convo between Kyle and Jimmy was about that.

Garcon should've gotten the ball at the first 'i' of the 'Vikings' in the endzone and just as he got to the 'V'. I don't think the Breida CB could've made the play on the ball if thrown in that area.

That really doesn't look like a hitch to me. Looks like a lazy step up to throw from Jimmy. Any who, it looks like the timing between the 2 guys was off. Like Kaep had thrown the ball

Am I the only one who thinks that is a bust by Breida? Seems a little tight to run a flood concept, you allow the CB to play both. I would imagine they would have Breida on a hitch/stop which we have seen with that Scissor concept last year, or it could be a Snag concept with Breida on the slant/hook, or maybe it was a flood and Breida needed to continue across the back of the end zone. Thought it was weird watching it live, puzzling me still.

I think Garcon didn't make the correct route adjustment vs a compressed field... pretty sure this is a flood combo but in the red zone the corner route needs to be flattened out...

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

Originally posted by jgarf08:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

I think the missed Garcon TD is on Jimmy. It did looked like he waited a tad too long to throw the ball. It should be right when Garcon turned his head around, which would be between the hash and numbers, but he didn't get it until he was outside the numbers. The defender trailing Garcon had his back turned. He wouldn't have seen the ball to make a play on it had it been thrown.

He took 3 steps and a hitch. So no hitch? The defender threatening Garcon isthe CB lined up over Breida, watching the play as he bails. Maybe I'm overestimating that CB's range.
Yeah I think if he doesn't hitch the pass has a better chance. Don't know what the play requires. The announcer was only speculating that the convo between Kyle and Jimmy was about that.

Garcon should've gotten the ball at the first 'i' of the 'Vikings' in the endzone and just as he got to the 'V'. I don't think the Breida CB could've made the play on the ball if thrown in that area.

That really doesn't look like a hitch to me. Looks like a lazy step up to throw from Jimmy. Any who, it looks like the timing between the 2 guys was off. Like Kaep had thrown the ball

Am I the only one who thinks that is a bust by Breida? Seems a little tight to run a flood concept, you allow the CB to play both. I would imagine they would have Breida on a hitch/stop which we have seen with that Scissor concept last year, or it could be a Snag concept with Breida on the slant/hook, or maybe it was a flood and Breida needed to continue across the back of the end zone. Thought it was weird watching it live, puzzling me still.

I think Garcon didn't make the correct route adjustment vs a compressed field... pretty sure this is a flood combo but in the red zone the corner route needs to be flattened out...

Yeah, these replays help. Garçon was open at the I in viking. That's fixable.

Originally posted by communist:

Originally posted by thl408:

Who is chasing down Cousins? It can't be AA due to his lack of effort!

That was a serious question, guys